1995 seville starter problem

[thebadguy]

Hi guys,

I have a 1995 seville sls, when I go to start the car, I just get a click..its been going on for about 2 weeks now. If I keep on trying to start the car it usually will start after a while. Well this morning after 1 hour, I still cant get it to start..everything else is good, good battery/voltage.... I even tried jumping it and no help at all.. Can it be anything other than the starter, I tightened the battery posts down, did everything but jump the starter with a screwdriver. Any ideas or suggestions and is it very hard to change.

long time member on this post

thanks in advance,

Jason

[KHE]

Check your battery cables for corrosion - especially between the multiple positive cables. Corrosion has been known to get between the individual positive cables and cause a no start situation like you describe.

[thebadguy]

Check your battery cables for corrosion - especially between the multiple positive cables. Corrosion has been known to get between the individual positive cables and cause a no start situation like you describe.

thank you I will try that. I did a search and found a couple real good discussions after I posted, Thanks again

Jason

[Ed Hall]

Sounds like a bad solenoid.

[thebadguy]

Good morning,

Ok, update.......

I used my spare key with WD-40.....no help

I cleaned my battery cables and post..+ and - .... no help

Took off trim on drivers side to get to starter relay.. is working fine.

I was hoping against hope that one of these would help....

I havent located my starter yet so I didn't clean the contacs on it. Could use a little help or picture if anyone has one.

My battery has always given me some problems, I was wondering if it could be the problem. I had the car jumped the whole time I was trying to start the car 45 minutes, no turn over at all, just a click....panel read 13.5 volts the whole time...not to say that there many amps to turn it over but you would think I would get a little something to give me hope in that amount of time. I have a slow electrical draw somewhere in the car so every week I have to charge the battery depending on how much I drive it. But if the battery was dead or at 9 volts it normally would turn over and start or worse case when I put the jumper cables on it, it would fire right up. When cleaning the cables and post everything was shiny and clean but I did it anyways.

Anybody have anything? should I go and get a new battery, it's only 1 year old or should I just get a starter and call myself a rare case?!?!

thanks,

Jason

[Texas Jim]

I agree with Ed Hall.....

It COULD actually be the starter, but....it sounds like a bad solenoid to me.

[Ranger]

I have had batteries fail after 6 months. I've even had them bad right off the shelf. Assuming it was good, I pulled the starter 3 times before I realized that it was the battery. I got pretty fast at removing and installing that starter ('72 Deville). Have the battery load tested first. If you hear a click, the solenoid is working.

[KHE]

Good morning,

Ok, update.......

I used my spare key with WD-40.....no help

I cleaned my battery cables and post..+ and - .... no help

Took off trim on drivers side to get to starter relay.. is working fine.

I was hoping against hope that one of these would help....

I havent located my starter yet so I didn't clean the contacs on it. Could use a little help or picture if anyone has one.

My battery has always given me some problems, I was wondering if it could be the problem. I had the car jumped the whole time I was trying to start the car 45 minutes, no turn over at all, just a click....panel read 13.5 volts the whole time...not to say that there many amps to turn it over but you would think I would get a little something to give me hope in that amount of time. I have a slow electrical draw somewhere in the car so every week I have to charge the battery depending on how much I drive it. But if the battery was dead or at 9 volts it normally would turn over and start or worse case when I put the jumper cables on it, it would fire right up. When cleaning the cables and post everything was shiny and clean but I did it anyways.

Anybody have anything? should I go and get a new battery, it's only 1 year old or should I just get a starter and call myself a rare case?!?!

thanks,

Jason

The positive battery cable has two cables - one on top of the other. One of the cables leads to the starter... have you verified there is no corrosion between the two cables???

[BodybyFisher]

As Kevin noted, how did you clean the positive battery cable? Did you pull off the red insulator? The postive cable houses two main cables one goes to the starter and one to the alternator and underhood relay/fuse center buss.

When you take the red insulator off, there is a lead lug (see #3 in the scan below) between the wires that becomes badly corroded along with the bolt. That joint needs to be taken apart and the corrosion cleaned with battery cleaner or baking soda and water mixed up. Corrosion can inhibit a good connection at so many locations at that joint. It is possible for the one leg to the fuse/relay buss to be live and the starter leg (the starter draws more current) to what I call 'flame out' or spontaneously disconnect when you turn the key.

After you clean that joint and reassemble it, make sure that after you tighten it back up, that you grap the wires and twist to be sure that connection at the battery is tight, the bolt CAN bottom out before the joint is tight because the lead lug can compress.

The junction looks like this:

Last year at this time, I replaced both my positive bolt and the lead lug, it made a big difference. Notice how squashed my old lug was on the far left. I got them at gmotors.com

[BodybyFisher]

If after you have thoroughly cleaned the positive and negative cables and determined that the battery is good, you may need a new starter. Now you might get away with just replacing the solenoid that is attached to the starter. But given the age of your car and assuming that it is the original it owes you nothing. While replacing the solenoid would probably fix you problem, your starter could probably use new brushes, bearings and the communicator is probably worn. Let us know how that turns out.

I don't have a good photo but the starter is under the intake manifold and it bolts to the hole in the block that you see below. Starters last a long time in the Northstar as its tucked away from heat and corrosion.

[thebadguy]

Thanks for the reply guys...

I know the battery is good, I just replaced it, cleaned all terminals with a wire brush and reassembled. I then took a probe and stuck it into the starter wire right before it goes into the intake and got 12.4 volts. so I hope I'm good there. I took out all fuses, cleaned them and checked continuity, all good...Checked starter relay by drivers side door, 12 volts, all good. Cleaned all visible grounds and re-tightened down. got under the ash tray and unhooked the two wires in there going to a plug, get 12 volts in park and loose it when I shift, I hope thats right.

In desperation took off the north star cover and am able to see part of the starter on the right side of the engine, so I took a long screwdriver and a hammer (good idea I know lol..) and started tapping it, went back to the car and got the solenoid to start clicking again but no fire, sometimes the solenoid clicks loud, sometimes real soft. Does it have a separate power source I should be looking into??? But regardless to the clicking not a hint of a turnover? Am I fishing in a empty lake here. Could it really be the obvious problem for once????lol?

My buddy printed out the DESTRUCTIONS for the job and it sounds pretty complicated...I.E. relieve fuel pressure, take off throttle body, cruise control, fuel rail, etc etc.. I can tear things apart with the best of them, I'm worried about putting it all back together lol. Thanks for all the info and advice it helps so much. If anyone had any suggestions or short cuts or pictures that would be awesome.

thanks in advance,

Jason

[BodybyFisher]

Thanks for the reply guys...

In desperation took off the north star cover and am able to see part of the starter on the right side of the engine,

You're seeing the solenoid, the starter is dead center. So you tapped it and then heard clicking. This could be the solenoid hold in winding, if you suddenly induced clicking.

The job is not difficult from what I understand, just intimidating, someone who has done this job will chime in.

Take digital photos of from the beginning. Keep related parts, bolts and nuts together in boxes or baggies. Maybe someone can post the procedure if you don't have it.

[thebadguy]

yeah, if someone could post step by step, that would be great!! .. Digital camera, great Idea.

thanks,

Jason

[thebadguy]

thanks again for all the help and continuing help,

Jason

[lothos]

http://www.freeengineinfo.com/cadillac-nor...replacement.htm

[thebadguy]

thats it? The directions that were given to me talked about purging fuel line removing throttle body, removing cruise control.....ect ect..

nice, I hope it works as easy as it sounds...

Am I going to have to replace the intake gasket? Does it have a gasket? The picture shows groves, but no evidence of a gasket...

thanks again for everything,

Jason

I'll sleep better tonight, you guys are the best

[KHE]

The gasket is a silicone gasket and it can be reused as long as there are not any tears in it. Have you verified the battery cables are not corroded before tearing into the starter?

[thebadguy]

yes, I have cleaned them real good Saturday and today, I took off the insulation on the ends and cleaned them real good. If they are corroded under the red I have no idea, or at the starter, but the ends and real clean, bolt is clean and luggs are clean.

Jason

[lothos]

I have a 1995 STS and I cleaned my battery terminals when I first got the car. There's also some grounds that I cleaned by following the black cable to where it mounts on the engine and the body. The bolt on the engine was right next to my battery, and the other one I cleaned was up by headlight next to the battery.

I have a 1995 Factory Service Manual. I can type up the procedure for changing the starter if you'd like. It would have more precise directions than the photo essay thing I posted a link to. And it would have all the torque settings as well. Let me know, I would be happy to type them up after I get off of work tomorrow. I browse Caddyinfo during lunch at work, but won't have access to the FSM until 6pm.

[thebadguy]

that would be awesome, any type of instructions would be great. The picture link you sent me makes it sound quite easy. The other instructions have me disassembling everything on top of the intake, needless to say, I like you way alot better lol

thanks,

Jason

[lothos]

Cool, I'll type that up when I get home from work then.

[lothos]

Starter Replacement

Remove or Disconnect

1 negative battery cable at battery

2 positive battery cable at battery

3 intake manifold. Refer to Section 6C

5 Starter motor mounting bolts

6 starter motor

7 solenoid "S" terminal nut

Install or Connect

NOTICE: Before installing starter motor to engine, tighten inner nuts on solenoid terminals to be sure they are secure in cap. Tighten inner nuts on battery terminal and motor terminal to 70 lb in. If nuts are not properly tightened, starter may fail later due to terminal or cap damage.

1 solenoid switch level 26 lb in

2 battery cable nut 70 lb in

3 starter motor

4 starter motor mounting nut 22 lb ft

5 intake manifold Refer to Section 6C

6 positive battery cable 11 lb ft

7 negative battery cable 11 lb ft

Some of those torque specs are foot pounds, and some of them are inch pounds.

[BodybyFisher]

Here is some more diagnostic and R&R info

[lothos]

Here are the instructions from Section 6C for the intake manifold.

INTAKE MANIFOLD

Remove or Disconnect:

1 negative battery terminal

2 intake manifold top cover

3 relieve fuel system pressure (tire valve looking thing at the end of the fuel rail, use paper towels)

4 IAT sensor connector

5 crankcase vent pipe at air intake duct

6 air intake duct with air cleaner housing

7 transaxle vent hose and vacuum lines at ISC actuator bracket

8 vacuum manifold at throttle body

9 TP sensor and ISC actuator connectors

10 cruise control servo vacuum hoses and connector

11 cruise control cable at throttle body

12 cruise control servo and bracket

13 accelerator cable at throttle body and ISC actuator bracket

14 front bank plug wires and lay aside

15 throttle body coolant hoses at throttle body and surge tank pipe

16 EGR pipe at throttle body spacer

17 brake booster vacuum hose at intake manifold vacuum fitting

18 fuel rail ground wire at rear cylinder head

19 quick connect fittings at fuel rail

20 fuel rail bracket at EGR valve

21 PCV hose at intake manifold

22 injector harness main connector

23 six bolts, four studs and intake manifold

Install or Connect:

1 intake manifold, six bolts and four studs 89 lb in

2 injector harness main connector

3 PCV hose at intake manifold

4 fuel rail bracket at EGR valve

5 quick connect fittings to fuel rail

6 fuel rail ground wire at rear cylinder head

7 brake booster vacuum hose at intake manifold vacuum fitting

8 EGR pipe at throttle body spacer 21 lb ft

9 throttle body coolant hoses at throttle body and surge tank pipe

10 front bank spark plug wires

11 accelerator cable at throttle body and ISC actuator bracket

12 cruise control servo and brackets

13 cruise control cable at throttle body

14 cruise control servo and vacuum lines at ISC actuator bracket

18 air intake duct with air cleaner housing

19 crankcase vent pipe at air intake duct

20 IAT sensor connector

21 tighten fuel filler cap

22 negative battery cable

turn ignition ON for two seconds, turn to OFF for ten seconds. Again turn to ON and check for fuel leaks.

23 intake manifold top cover 18 lb in

[thebadguy]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the help....

After all the work trying to figure out what it could be other than the starter.... IT WAS THE STARTER!! lol!

Thanks for the instructions....I looked at them and said thier has to be a faster way, so I just undid the intake bolts and studs and tried to take the cover off, had to remove a couple of hoses and bingo bango...got to the starter. Took about 40 minutes to do the whole job, but you need your wife to stand there and hold the intake cover up lololol!

thanks for everything,

Jason