Over heating

[Itzhaky]

Outside temp: 72. Average speed: 35 MPH. Driving condition: Suburban. Some open roads and some stop and go. Distance of driving: 24 miles.

With cool engine I topped the coolant. Engine temp rose linearly to 196 and stopped there for a few minutes, indicating open thermostat, then settled at 200-205. Then, 24 miles later, it rose rapidly to 250, 300, 400, 500 and at 600 I stopped on the side.

Behind me, on the road, was a trail of coolant. No steam from the radiator, nor from the exhausts. I was short of 1.25 gallon coolant. What gives?

Radiator is 10 months old. Coolant cap is one month old. Thermostat one week old. Pump two months old. No leakage from underneath the car. Radiator pressure test good. Purge line checked ok. Any ideas? Mechanic suggested combustion test, but if I burn coolant, won’t I see fume and smell burnt coolant from the exhausts? Nothing from there. Also, no leakage to the oil compartment.

[BodybyFisher]

Right now, you have FIVE overheating threads going. REALIZE that WE have NO ability to know what you have tested, you are FORCING us to go back to your PRIOR threads to see what you have done so far. You EVEN have a thread that your overheating was SOLVED. Why do this? KEEP ONE THREAD ON THE SAME PROBLEM AT ALL TIMES.

Did you check your water pump belt and tensioner?

If you have pressure tested the system and checked the above items, you need to do a combustion by products test, what happens is that super heated gases enter the cooling system and cause a boil over, evidence of this is in the coolant, in by products. This is usually caused by a bad head gasket. Do the test

[navion]

Outside temp: 72. Average speed: 35 MPH. Driving condition: Suburban. Some open roads and some stop and go. Distance of driving: 24 miles.

With cool engine I topped the coolant. Engine temp rose linearly to 196 and stopped there for a few minutes, indicating open thermostat, then settled at 200-205. Then, 24 miles later, it rose rapidly to 250, 300, 400, 500 and at 600 I stopped on the side.

Behind me, on the road, was a trail of coolant. No steam from the radiator, nor from the exhausts. I was short of 1.25 gallon coolant. What gives?

Radiator is 10 months old. Coolant cap is one month old. Thermostat one week old. Pump two months old. No leakage from underneath the car. Radiator pressure test good. Purge line checked ok. Any ideas? Mechanic suggested combustion test, but if I burn coolant, won’t I see fume and smell burnt coolant from the exhausts? Nothing from there. Also, no leakage to the oil compartment.

600 Degrees? Surely you are joking. If so, I hear that scrap is fetching good money these days.

Even though you say that the purge line is clear, the symptom sounds like a purge problem OR a slipping pump drive belt/weak tensioner.

I had an issue with the purge line at one time. I removed it from the surge tank, started the engine and had coolant flow out the line. Later, I found that the blockage was in the nipple of the surge tank.

Do a combustion by products test. After an overheat like you describe, it should be done just to give you piece of mind, if nothing else.

If the surge tank is in fact the problem, then you are closer to solving your problem.

As Body by Fisher says, try to keep your problem confined to one thread. It makes it easier to help you.

Take Care and Good Luck, (After seeing 600 degrees, you will need it! )

Britt

[Ranger]

I am sure the engine would have seized long before reaching 600 degrees. In fact it would have been a mere 60 degrees from melting down. If there was a trail of coolant on the road, there has to be an external leak that should show itself with a cooling system pressure test.

[adallak]

Radiator is 10 months old. Coolant cap is one month old. Thermostat one week old. Pump two months old.

How old are you? 600F ...wow...is it digital or analog? Probably you had a problem with cooling system before. That's the reason all those components were replaced. What was the problem/symptoms? And as BBF said, it makes sense to rather update the information in the original thread instead of starting new ones.

[navion]

I am sure the engine would have seized long before reaching 600 degrees. In fact it would have been a mere 60 degrees from melting down. If there was a trail of coolant on the road, there has to be an external leak that should show itself with a cooling system pressure test.

Agreed, But it could have been the overflow venting due to the overheat situation.

Britt

[WarrenJ]

I think you have to exceed 900 degrees before the StarDrive will ignite. But that's just me.

It's interesting, however, that the system might register a temperature of 600 degrees.

Flim-Flam someone else please.

Regards,

Warren

[Logan]

Using a scan tool, the worse we've seen was around 400 degress for coolant temp. In that case, is was obvious the PCM was bad. Tap the PCM and the data would jump all over the place.

Trail of coolant cannot be good..

[BodybyFisher]

at 600 I stopped on the side.

Let me rephrase that, at 600 the CAR stopped on the side,

I hope you are exaggerating your temp figures, I kind of ignored them figuring that you are exaggerating, until I saw the guys sort of take you seriously. At 260 I believe the PCM shuts down the AC while telling you to idle the car, any hotter and it will start shutting down cylinders

Tell us the history of this car, did you replace all of the parts or were they replaced by a prior owner. When did you buy it, has it ever run good for YOU?

You said the pump was replaced, I assume the water pump belt and tensioner were checked at that time, yes?

Have you taken the hose off of the purge line (at the bolt with a hole in it) to see if you have ANY obstructions at all?

The stream of coolant undoubtly came from the overflow when the pressure in the cooling system exceeded the radiator caps capacity.

I hate to say this but you are getting classic head gasket symptoms.

[navion]

at 600 I stopped on the side.

Let me rephrase that, at 600 the CAR stopped on the side,

I hope you are exaggerating your temp figures, I kind of ignored them figuring that you are exaggerating, until I saw the guys sort of take you seriously. At 260 I believe the PCM shuts down the AC while telling you to idle the car, any hotter and it will start shutting down cylinders

Mike,

I believe that he was exaggerating on the temp issue, but I thought that I would play along. As I said 600 degrees & all you would have is scrap.

I hope he does the combustion byproducts test. That way all of us can quit guessing.

Britt

[BodybyFisher]

I just had a nice phone conversation with Ike, he bought a coolant tester and he will test his coolant tomorrow for combustion by-products. He has checked the cooling fans, the thermostat, the purge line, the cap, replaced the radiator and the pump, and there appears to be tension on the wp belt.

He told me that a couple of months ago, he had coolant smoke coming out of both exhausts and he used Bars Stop Leak (1000?). No more smoke out of the exhaust. He can't understand why if there is no more smoke why he is overheating. I explained that he might have slowed/stopped the coolant from leaking into the cylinder but he CAN NOT stop combustion gases from super heating the coolant and causing spontaineous overheating.

He is sick, he loves his Deville.

Ike will report back his findings tomorrow, maybe we can help him decide how to handle this if he has a bad head gasket. I am thinking that he would be best to find a good engine, what do you guys think..

[Ranger]

I am sure the engine would have seized long before reaching 600 degrees. In fact it would have been a mere 60 degrees from melting down. If there was a trail of coolant on the road, there has to be an external leak that should show itself with a cooling system pressure test.

Agreed, But it could have been the overflow venting due to the overheat situation.

Britt

Good point Britt. Where was my head.

[navion]

I am sure the engine would have seized long before reaching 600 degrees. In fact it would have been a mere 60 degrees from melting down. If there was a trail of coolant on the road, there has to be an external leak that should show itself with a cooling system pressure test.

Agreed, But it could have been the overflow venting due to the overheat situation.

Britt

Good point Britt. Where was my head.

No problem. My first thought was that he had a blown heater hose, or a hole rubbed in one of the pipes that run along the rear cylinder head. Then I had one of those moments and thought of the overflow.

I can't see the woods, there are too many darn trees in the way!

Take Care,

Britt

[BodybyFisher]

Ike, this is the coolant tester that you are looking for, it will tell you your coolant concentration. It will tell you your freezing and boiling temperature.

If you flushed your engine with WATER, when you ADD 50/50 coolant at that point your concentration is diluited by the WATER that remains in the engine. This might have been your problem all along. Buy this tester and check your coolant concentration, keep adding coolant (after let some out) and add full strenght coolant until you get to 50/50 concentration...

I am happy to hear that the combustion by products test showed that you did NOT have combustion by products in your coolant, that is GREAT news.

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLM...r+%2f+Hand+Held

ONE MORE THING, make sure you use the cooling supplement tablets, use 6 if you have not used them, they are made by GM and by Bars.. this is a necessity...

Mike

[Itzhaky]

I bought that tube with 5 balls to check the ratio (?) of water and antifreeze.

4 balls go all the way up, the fifth, the green ball, stay down.

Meaning what?

I also bought the combustion tester ($50) and the color do not change.

Please comment.

Thanks.

[Itzhaky]

Ike, this is the coolant tester that you are looking for, it will tell you your coolant concentration. It will tell you your freezing and boiling temperature.

If you flushed your engine with WATER, when you ADD 50/50 coolant at that point your concentration is diluited by the WATER that remains in the engine. This might have been your problem all along. Buy this tester and check your coolant concentration, keep adding coolant (after let some out) and add full strenght coolant until you get to 50/50 concentration...

I am happy to hear that the combustion by products test showed that you did NOT have combustion by products in your coolant, that is GREAT news.

<a href="http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLM...r+%2f+Hand+Held" target="_blank">http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLM...r+%2f+Hand+Held</a>

ONE MORE THING, make sure you use the cooling supplement tablets, use 6 if you have not used them, they are made by GM and by Bars.. this is a necessity...

Mike

I did buy it and 4 balls goes up and the 5th stays down.

At this time I am adding only straight coolant. Should all 5 balls go up?

OK, I will buy those 6 tablet and add them to the coolant.

[BodybyFisher]

Ike, this is the coolant tester that you are looking for, it will tell you your coolant concentration. It will tell you your freezing and boiling temperature.

If you flushed your engine with WATER, when you ADD 50/50 coolant at that point your concentration is diluited by the WATER that remains in the engine. This might have been your problem all along. Buy this tester and check your coolant concentration, keep adding coolant (after let some out) and add full strenght coolant until you get to 50/50 concentration...

I am happy to hear that the combustion by products test showed that you did NOT have combustion by products in your coolant, that is GREAT news.

<a href="http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLM...r+%2f+Hand+Held" target="_blank">http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLM...r+%2f+Hand+Held</a>

ONE MORE THING, make sure you use the cooling supplement tablets, use 6 if you have not used them, they are made by GM and by Bars.. this is a necessity...

Mike

I did buy it and 4 balls goes up and the 5th stays down.

At this time I am adding only straight coolant. Should all 5 balls go up?

OK, I will buy those 6 tablet and add them to the coolant.

I really can't answer that, the packaging that it came in or the writing on the tester should tell you that.. You need to understand what 4 balls floating means and what 5 balls floating means, the materials that came with the tester should tell you that..

How are your temps doing

PS, I hope your wife is doing ok, I said a prayer for her, Mike

[Itzhaky]

Ike, this is the coolant tester that you are looking for, it will tell you your coolant concentration. It will tell you your freezing and boiling temperature.

If you flushed your engine with WATER, when you ADD 50/50 coolant at that point your concentration is diluited by the WATER that remains in the engine. This might have been your problem all along. Buy this tester and check your coolant concentration, keep adding coolant (after let some out) and add full strenght coolant until you get to 50/50 concentration...

I am happy to hear that the combustion by products test showed that you did NOT have combustion by products in your coolant, that is GREAT news.

<a href="http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLM...r+%2f+Hand+Held" target="_blank">http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLM...r+%2f+Hand+Held</a>

ONE MORE THING, make sure you use the cooling supplement tablets, use 6 if you have not used them, they are made by GM and by Bars.. this is a necessity...

Mike

I did buy it and 4 balls goes up and the 5th stays down.

At this time I am adding only straight coolant. Should all 5 balls go up?

OK, I will buy those 6 tablet and add them to the coolant.

I really can't answer that, the packaging that it came in or the writing on the tester should tell you that.. You need to understand what 4 balls floating means and what 5 balls floating means, the materials that came with the tester should tell you that..

How are your temps doing

PS, I hope your wife is doing ok, I said a prayer for her, Mike

Several months ago I had strong fume out of the two exhausts and strong smell of burning coolant. I used Bar’s gasket seal and now I get - only at start up - some fume and some water leakage. No smell of burning coolant and the water is just water. I tested it on my tongue. (Never again, Mike). The fume stopped after a few minutes.

I bought at CarQuest combustion tester and tested the coolant according the instruction, using vacuum line. The liquid maintain its original blue color and even when the coolant level expends and being sucked into the test tube, the color stays the same as the coolant color, bluish/greenish. No yellow.

My question is why I keep getting air bubble coming through the overflow tank (cap off) when the engine running at idle and at normal temperature (around 200-205)? And I keep loosing coolant at the rate of a quart per 50-80 miles drive, depending on driving conditions? My water/coolant ratio now must be 35 water and 65 coolant.

Mike, thanks for your prayers for my wife. She needs all the prayers she can get