MIke D Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 After trcking down what I thought was the culpret of an engine miss it decided to show up after a week... this was my previous post, http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17247 Well now i just got a PO404 which is a EGR open position performance... HUH? what can this do to my car? Thanks in advance Mike D Cop didn't see it, I didn't do it! 93 STS 225,000 Miles 99 STS 111,000 Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 No EGR at idle. If it is not closed completely, it will cause a rough idle or stall if it is open enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Ditto, I could not find this in my FSM Engine Supplement, I will look in the other section later Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIke D Posted April 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 thanks guys... I am still trying to find a good condition FSM on ebay. One of the ebay websites says that there are two volumes (vol. 1 of 2 and vol. 2 of 2) and one says that there are 3 volumes. The table of contents even says vol. 3 on it. I'm totally confused.... Also is there a differance between an STS manual and a seville manual? I know they did for newer years... MD Cop didn't see it, I didn't do it! 93 STS 225,000 Miles 99 STS 111,000 Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jking220 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 thanks guys... I am still trying to find a good condition FSM on ebay. One of the ebay websites says that there are two volumes (vol. 1 of 2 and vol. 2 of 2) and one says that there are 3 volumes. The table of contents even says vol. 3 on it. I'm totally confused.... Also is there a differance between an STS manual and a seville manual? I know they did for newer years... MD Im pretty sure there are 3 manuals... there are for my 01 STS... I just got mine off ebay a couple months ago... dont rush to buy... I waited a few weeks and got mine for $70. Jonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jking220 Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Also is there a differance between an STS manual and a seville manual? I know they did for newer years... MD Mine are for all Sevilles, not just the STS. Jonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 PO404: This diagnostic test checks for a malfunction in the circuitry and hardware of the Linear EGR valve. The ability of the PCM to control the EGR valve is checked with this test. When the PCM commands the EGR valve to a desired position and changes that position less than a calibratable amount, this test then checks the EGR pintle position error. If the pintle position error, which is the difference between the desired pintle position and the actual pintle position, is too great then this DTC is set. Conditions for Running the DTC • Engine vacuum is greater than 49.7 kPa. • Transmission temperature is greater than 89.7°C (193.4°F). • The maximum change in desired pintle position during this test is less than 25 counts if the Ignition voltage is more than 12 volts or 10 counts if the Ignition voltage is less than 12 volts. Conditions for Setting the DTCs • Ignition voltage 12 volts or less. The linear EGR pintle position error is greater than 75 counts. • Ignition voltage more than 12 volts. The linear EGR pintle position error is greater than 25 counts. Action Taken When the DTC Sets The PCM disables the EGR solenoid for the ignition cycle. • The PCM will illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) after two consecutive drive trips that the diagnostic runs and fails. • The PCM will record operating conditions at the time the DTC sets. This information will be stored in the Freeze Frame and Failure Records. • A first failure of this DTC will store in Last Test Failed but not History. Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC • The PCM will turn the MIL OFF after three consecutive drive trips that the diagnostic runs and does not fail. • A Last Test Failed DTC will clear when the diagnostic runs and does not fail. • A History DTC will clear after forty consecutive warm-up cycles with no failures of any diagnostic test. • Use a scan tool to clear DTCs. • Interrupting PCM battery voltage may or may not clear DTCs. This practice is not recommended. Refer to Clearing Diagnostic Trouble Codes in Powertrain Control Module Description . Test Description Number(s) below refer to the step number(s) on the Diagnostic Table. Checking if EGR valve feedback is valid with EGR OFF. With the EGR valve OFF, the feedback should be 1.0 volt or less. At 50% EGR commanded ON, compare the Actual EGR pintle position to the Commanded EGR pintle position. If the Actual EGR pintle position is 0, the fault is in the EGR control circuit, the EGR valve or the PCM. If the Actual EGR pintle position varies above and below the Commanded EGR pintle position the fault is in the EGR valve ignition feed (C2-34) or the PCM. With the EGR valve commanded on full, the EGR pintle position should be above 4.0 volts. The Freeze Frame or Failure Rec., EGR pintle position, display can help determine the root cause even if the problem cannot be reproduced. If a low pintle position is recorded in the snapshot, that means a low feedback circuit voltage caused the DTC to set. The Freeze Frame or Failure Rec., EGR pintle position, display can help determine the root cause even if the problem cannot be reproduced. If a high pintle position is recorded in the snapshot, that means a high feedback circuit voltage, possibly open, caused the DTC to set. If an intermediate pintle position is recorded in the snapshot, that means the DTC was probably set because the PCM could not control the EGR solenoid either due to intermittents in the solenoid or a sticky EGR valve. If audible valve movement is heard when disconnecting the EGR connector check the EGR Valve Control circuit for a short to ground. A high voltage reading on the 5 volt reference circuit could be caused by a short to voltage on another 5 volt reference circuit, some 5V Ref. circuits are shared inside the PCM, or battery voltage bleeding onto the 5 volt reference circuit as in a defective Linear EGR Valve. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Ditto, I could not find this in my FSM Engine Supplement, I will look in the other section later I looked all over my manual this morning and could not find anything on that code, nor could I find anything on pindle position, I don't understand it Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Ditto, I could not find this in my FSM Engine Supplement, I will look in the other section later I looked all over my manual this morning and could not find anything on that code, nor could I find anything on pindle position, I don't understand it Fisher..I posted po404 above..It's a 'B' code. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 Ditto, I could not find this in my FSM Engine Supplement, I will look in the other section later I looked all over my manual this morning and could not find anything on that code, nor could I find anything on pindle position, I don't understand it Fisher..I posted po404 above..It's a 'B' code. OH, ok, thanks Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIke D Posted April 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Conditions for Setting the DTCs • Ignition voltage 12 volts or less. The linear EGR pintle position error is greater than 75 counts. The PCM disables the EGR solenoid for the ignition cycle. I, like an idiot, forgot to turn off my headlights when I was trying to find my speaker problem. Ran the battery almost dead. Would that be my reason for the code? I see above the reason for setting the MIL but I also see the line that says the pcm disables the egr.... so would a low battery on startup cause this? I'm pulling my sparkplugs again to see which one's are fouled. if they are the same as before i'm going to be really frustrated.... not just this minor amount of frustration i currently have... (yes i'm joking) Thanks again guys... MD Cop didn't see it, I didn't do it! 93 STS 225,000 Miles 99 STS 111,000 Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Mike what was the result of your coil resistance tests? I sent your old coil to JimD for him to do an autopsy on it. Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIke D Posted April 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Well I figured out how to use my multi meter! I had it on the wrong scale for measuring resistance... DOH! My results. Coil pack #6 & 7 was 5.6 ohms Coil pack #1 & 4 (my new one) was 5.8 ohms Coil pack #3 & 8 was ZERO Coil pack #2 & 5 was 5.6 ohms My dad can get them cheap from acdelco so I'm having him drop ship 2 of them for me. One backup just in case... So what would cause 2 coils to go bad in 3 weeks? Could the crank or cam sensors be sending a bad signal to them? Cop didn't see it, I didn't do it! 93 STS 225,000 Miles 99 STS 111,000 Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 That certainly is odd, as JimD noted in another post, they all just don't go bad Maybe someone will have an idea as to why this might happen Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 thanks guys... I am still trying to find a good condition FSM on ebay. One of the ebay websites says that there are two volumes (vol. 1 of 2 and vol. 2 of 2) and one says that there are 3 volumes. The table of contents even says vol. 3 on it. I'm totally confused.... Also is there a differance between an STS manual and a seville manual? I know they did for newer years... MD Seville manual covers both SLS & STS. The set I had for my daughters '99 was only 2 volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIke D Posted April 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 thanks guys... I am still trying to find a good condition FSM on ebay. One of the ebay websites says that there are two volumes (vol. 1 of 2 and vol. 2 of 2) and one says that there are 3 volumes. The table of contents even says vol. 3 on it. I'm totally confused.... Also is there a differance between an STS manual and a seville manual? I know they did for newer years... MD Seville manual covers both SLS & STS. The set I had for my daughters '99 was only 2 volumes. Thanks. There are a few on ebay that i'm looking at. One still in the plastic for $105... Helms wants $135.. Cop didn't see it, I didn't do it! 93 STS 225,000 Miles 99 STS 111,000 Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 I think I paid $45 for the set I had. $105 is WAY to much on Ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIke D Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 I got the new coil and swapped it out. The car is still missing and running bad. Checked the resistance of ALL 4 coils and they are good. I'm not sure what's next. I can't get a compression check done here (without paying out the back end). What would a bad cam sensor or crank sensor feel like? No codes with it right now... Cop didn't see it, I didn't do it! 93 STS 225,000 Miles 99 STS 111,000 Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 I got the new coil and swapped it out. The car is still missing and running bad. Checked the resistance of ALL 4 coils and they are good. I'm not sure what's next. I can't get a compression check done here (without paying out the back end). What would a bad cam sensor or crank sensor feel like? No codes with it right now... Mike make sure that you have the firing order correct. If you can get your hands on an ignition module even from a junk yard (the module under the coils) swap it in and see what you get. Make sure all wire are snapped into the plugs, it can be tricky getting them snapped on Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIke D Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 I got the new coil and swapped it out. The car is still missing and running bad. Checked the resistance of ALL 4 coils and they are good. I'm not sure what's next. I can't get a compression check done here (without paying out the back end). What would a bad cam sensor or crank sensor feel like? No codes with it right now... Mike make sure that you have the firing order correct. If you can get your hands on an ignition module even from a junk yard (the module under the coils) swap it in and see what you get. Make sure all wire are snapped into the plugs, it can be tricky getting them snapped on Thankfully the old coils had the firing order right on them. I did trace the wires and they are on the correct plugs and all are tight... Thanks Cop didn't see it, I didn't do it! 93 STS 225,000 Miles 99 STS 111,000 Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Did you pull the EGR and clean the pintle valve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Read my post "random miss finally cured". The boot between the intake and throttle body had a crack. My car would act like a miss, you gave it gas but it would not respond until you gave it enough pedal the car would clear up the miss and take off as soon as you started to hit the pedal again it would have no power and the SES light would flash and I would get the P0300 code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Definately check that Mike if your 99 has one, my year does not have that plenum. I wonder what year they started using it? Here is a photo of the Plenum in question Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted April 23, 2008 Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 Just in case you need one it is part number 12555840 and is called plenum for intake manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIke D Posted April 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2008 I just checked. No rubber boot. It's actually mounted directly to the manifold. I did pull the EGR and cleaned it, per the instructions on this board, and it was dirty. Now it's clean but it is still running rough. It's sporatic but still rough in or out of gear usually low RPMS but will sometimes happen on a WOT when it is acting up. Pulled the front 4 plugs to see if the last coil fouled them out and they were all good. All plugs wires are correct and seated good. Again, thanks! Cop didn't see it, I didn't do it! 93 STS 225,000 Miles 99 STS 111,000 Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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