beefy Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Ok my starter developed and interesting problem about a year ago. When it was cold out <40 degrees the starter would turn without engaging the flywheel. It would make a LOUD whirring sound. After one or two tries it would be fine. When warm the starter worked like a top. As most do, the problem progressively got worse until it barely ever started. I had gotten another car so I let the caddy sit in storage till it got warm enough to work on it. The battery had died so I tried to jump it and it just made a clicking sound like the battery was dead and the door locks were opening and closing with each click. I checked the voltage at the battery when hooked up to the other car and it was showing 14.2v and I had good power in the car, so I think the batt was ok enough to at least start the car. So Anyway I was just gonna replace the starter and solenoid since I got a buddy at a parts shop (50$) When I got under there it looked like the motor mount was mounted to a shield covering the mounting bolts of the starter. I went to autozone and got a print out for the removal procedure, It mentioned removing the "Viewing Plate" but nothing about the motor mount. Took another look and it seemed to me I would have to remove the motor mount to get to the bolts. I figured Ill try tightening up all the power connections before replacing the starter all together. When I tried to jump it today, I heard the pinion gear engage and the motor turned once then allittle more very slowly when I saw smoke coming from where I had the negative cable hooked up. 1) Is the starter I have bad or was the stuff just loose 2) If bad starter DO I have to go through a motor mount to get the starter off? 3) Whats with the smoking?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 What did you have the negative cable hooked up to? I would say that the connections were just loose and burning off any oil or paint the cable was hooked up to. My Manual says: 1. Unhook Battery 2. raise vehicle 3. remove starter motor shield 4. disconnect exhaust front and rear pipe assembly 5. remove flexplate inspection cover 6. disconnect solenoid "s" terminal nut & battery cable nut 7. remove starter motor mounting bolts 8. remove starter motor Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy Posted April 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 I had the ground hooked up to where the ground wire from the battery mounts to the frame. Ive jumped it from there a few times with no problems. I looked closer at the jumper clip and it was discolored like it was soldered. I looked at the wire bundle at where it was bolted to the frame and one of the strands had actually melted. When I tried to jump it again I made sure it was on the bolt and not the wires, It started smoking again, ans the jumper cable got real hot. It seems theres a large short somewhere but I dunno where it possible could be I didnt have this problem last time, all I did was tighten the connection bolts on the starter. THats what the procedure they gave me says too. however it looks like the "flex plate inspection cover" or "starter motor shield" is bolted to the engine cradle crossmember by 2 bolts. Im not sure if thats the 4.5 or 4.9 pricedure, the 4.5 is supposed to have a shield, and the 4.9 no... I can see most of the starter, and the think blocking the mounting bolts is substantial not a flimsy heat shield. so I think its the flex plate cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Not so much that era of 4.9l...but earlier 4.xl versions had problems with the engine block ground. Very near the starter. These grounds have to be better then 'look' perfect. Several GM bulletins on the engine block ground. They can look ok. Not good enough. You have to take them apart, clean and repair. They are that sensitive. Had a Fiero once. 3 tries to get the starter to work. Finally figured out it was factory paint on the engine block blocking the current. Cleaned the minimal factory paint off the starter mounting flange. No more problems.. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Beefy, If you HAVE to remove the starter, you do not have to remove the exhaust manifold. Just turn the starter (disconnected electrically) so that its "nose" is up and pull it downwards off the engine. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy Posted April 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Beefy, If you HAVE to remove the starter, you do not have to remove the exhaust manifold. Just turn the starter (disconnected electrically) so that its "nose" is up and pull it downwards off the engine. Getting to the bolts that mount it to the block is the problem, if I get off work early enough to work on it tomorrow Ill try to snap a pic of what Im talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy Posted April 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Ok update: the shield wasnt part of the motor mount assembly, it was just too dark. The shield was under the motor mount, I saw it clearly after I took the photo. So I got the starter replaced, and I tried to jump the car... I let it charge off my other car for about 5 minutes and it started right up. I let it run for about a half hour revving the engine a bit to charge as best I could. When I tried to start the car a second time by its self it struggled and I hear a rapid series of clicks... sounded like the pinion gear engaging and disengaging really fast. But eventually it caught and started up. About 10 minutes later I did it again and hear the same thing but no start.... I think the battery was just dead for too long...about a year sitting... I checked all the connections when I installed the new starter, Ill check again in the morning. What do you guys think, it needs a new battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Load test the battery. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Have you cleaned the battery terminals and the starter terminals? If the battery load test passes and all the connections are clean and tight, then I'd have the starter tested. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefy Posted April 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 THe starter is brand new, I cleaned all the connectors before hooking them up to the new starter, I will clean the battery and ground terminals tomorrow. To load test, put a multimeter on the battery and crank the enging and see what the voltage reads? If I remember correctly it should read 12.2 or something and 14.4 or so while running ya(to make sure altanator is working) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 THe starter is brand new, I cleaned all the connectors before hooking them up to the new starter, I will clean the battery and ground terminals tomorrow. To load test, put a multimeter on the battery and crank the enging and see what the voltage reads? If I remember correctly it should read 12.2 or something and 14.4 or so while running ya(to make sure altanator is working) No, there is a special load tester. SEARS can do that for you. Probably some other stores as well. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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