LPG Liquid petrol gas

[adallak]

Talking about onerous, I hope that Adallak posts about how hard it is to own and older car in Mass (Kennedy, Kerry, need I say more), according to Adallak, there is a road use fee, that equates to $300 per annum? or a one time fee? based on the age of the car.... OUCH... It is quite expensive to own an older car if that is true, and that is in addition to the standard registration fee.

I will direct Adallak to this thread for him to confirm it.

Mike, there is a state excise in Massachusetts. I know the rates only for cars older than five years though. They take 10% of the original price (when new), and charge you $25 per every thousand. Say, if I buy a 16 years old Mercedes-Benz, which was $130,000 in 1992

, they will charge me $25 x 13 = $325 EVERY YEAR! The money goes to local municipality. Sure, they charge even more for cars less than five years old. The insurance in MA is as much as twice of what I had in PA. By the way, the average maintenance cost of my old Cadillac has been about $300 per year. That includes all the parts, fluids, tires, etc. And the labor cost is next to nothing, since I do all the work on my own. LOL

By the way, my car passed emission test in MA with flying colors! You have to pass emission every second year in MA. NJ state inspection is tough, but it is free.

[BodybyFisher]

OH, I got the impression that the OLDER the car was the more onerous the charge was, Thanks Adallak

[Texas Jim]

Man... you all are talking about all the fees in other states just to own a car....

I am glad I am in Texas.

$38.50 for state inspection. Only 12 bucks if you live outside the SMOG counties.

About $60 bucks for my tags.

THATS IT.

Tags would be cheaper if I had a cheaper/smaller car.

It goes by a combination of weight and age I think.

My 2002 Taurus is only about 40 bucks.

[PAUL T]

In West Virginia we pay about $15.00 for a yearly inspection that usually consists of a check of the lights, brakes, and tires. You are not supposed to be able to put your finger in a rust hole, but duct tape solves that. Tags are about $32.00 a year. Countys charge a Personal Property Tax of about 1-1/2% of the book value.

As far as LPG conversion, West Virginia a while back converted all the State owned cars to Compressed Natural Gas(CNG) and even tried to set up an infrastructure by constructing a few stations here and there. It lasted about 5 years or so, then the cars and stations started to disappeared. Alot of the oil and gas well companies here still run on CNG. I even saw an ad in a local paper a while back where someone was selling the hardware to make a CNG station at your home.

[KHE]

Michigan license plate fees are expensive. My Fleetwood Brougham is $132 per year and the Sevilles are $170 per year.

[littleoletot]

Greetings from the other side of the pond,you guys don't know when you are well off ! Over here our beloved government have just informed us that to save the planet they are going to " green tax " our cars , i.e. my 2001 STS which now costs £220 a year to tax will cost £440 next , that is nearly $900 before it turns a wheel ! Over here our leaders who have ministerial cars and public transport provided free think a retrospective tax going back 7 years is a really good idea . They say its a matter of choice for us motorists but my powers of 2nd sight 7 years ago obviously missed this one, and trade in value on big cars now is aprox 2 goldfish and a balloon as petrol is nearly $11.00 a gallon and going up every day. If you are really rich and want to buy a new car at twice the price of the same in the USA they will add another green tax of $1000 on top ! Oh yes, and by the way, our public transport is nearly non existant unless you live in London or one of the next five big cities where it is ok provided you have a shed load of money and like getting close and intimate with your fellow sardines . Green Tax !!! the the only thing green about it is what our leaders think we are enough to believe them . Now where did I put that list of L.P.G. conversion fitters ????

P.S. No spy in the sky road charging over here for a while, H.M.Gov can't afford to put a bird in orbit yet !! So not all bad news -- Dunkerque spirit and all that , unless you own a diesel , in which case add an extra $1.50 per gallon.

[Marika]

Greetings from the other side of the pond,you guys don't know when you are well off ! Over here our beloved government have just informed us that to save the planet they are going to " green tax " our cars , i.e. my 2001 STS which now costs me £220 a year to tax will cost me £440 next , that is nearly $900 before it turns a wheel ! Over here our leaders who have ministerial cars and public transport provided free think a retrospective tax going back 7 years is a really good idea . They say its a matter of choice for us motorists but my powers of 2nd sight 7 years ago obviously missed this one, and trade in value on big cars now is aprox 2 goldfish and a balloon as petrol is nearly $11.00 a gallon and going up every day. If you are really rich and want to buy a new car at twice the price of the USA they will add another green tax of $1000 on top ! Oh yes by the way, our public transport is nearly non existant unless you live in London or one of the next five big cities where it is ok provided you have a shed load of money and like getting close and intimate with your fellow sardines . Green Tax !!! the the only thing green about it is what our leaders think we are enough to believe them . Now where did I put that list of lpg covertion fitters ????

Am I the only one who realizes what all these "green taxes" and "carbon credits" is REALLY all about? Governments have finally figured out a way to tax the air you breath. Congratulations to all citizens world-wide. You are now being taxed for the air you breath. Let us form lynch mobs hopefully soon so we can tar and feather all politicians, world-wide.

[igor TTA]

[Psycho]

24000 miles later.....

The STS still runs perfect.

The millage cost are now at about 55%, compared to petrol.

It has no negative effect (performance, oil.....).

Price is about $0,47 per l for LPG and $1,04 per l for petrol.

And after a period of 20000 miles I am even with the mounting and material costs.

So I save 45% of money, compared to normal petrol mode.

Or in other words: I now have a price/fuel consumption like a small 4 cylinder car.

regards Psycho

[Bruce Nunnally]

Very good news; thanks for the update. Is LPG (propane) readily available in your area?

Most places here do propane tank exchanges rather than refills. A business has to be specifically licensed for refills by the Railroad Commission, and the tank to be refilled has to meet with the current codes and pass inspection. In the USA I would guess U-Haul Rental places are the most frequent / most widely distributed sources of LPG.

[Psycho]

Very good news; thanks for the update. Is LPG (propane) readily available in your area?

Most places here do propane tank exchanges rather than refills. A business has to be specifically licensed for refills by the Railroad Commission, and the tank to be refilled has to meet with the current codes and pass inspection. In the USA I would guess U-Haul Rental places are the most frequent / most widely distributed sources of LPG.

Hi

there are about 6200 LPG stations in germany.

About 10 arround 6miles from where I live.

I had no problems with getting LPG the last years and I drove about 31000miles.

Everything great and cheap.

Regards Psycho

[BodybyFisher]

Did you post any information as to how you did this and what was required?

[Cadillac Jim]

Emissions compliance would depend on the manufacturer getting a license from the EPA (and the California equivalent for sale there). There are people in the USA that sell LNG conversions, so it's done.

As far as liter to kg, LNG has a specific gravity of about 0.41 at room temperature (20 C). See lots more information on the Wikipedia page,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNG

[Psycho]

Did you post any information as to how you did this and what was required?

Hi

it was done by a company, not by myself.

They are only doing LPG conversions.

And it is not realy dificult (if you know, what you are doing).

There is a ECU, placed in the engine room, the gastank (in the boot), a gas fille neck (see pics) several security valve, the injectors and the two evaporators.

The evaporators are linked to the coolant system.

If you start youre engine, the system switches automaticly to LPG if it reaches the desired temperature (adjustable parameter in the ECU).

This normaly takes 1-3miles.

There is a so called commutator, a small device (size like a stamp) with 6 LED's, showing you the status of the system and the level in the LPG tank.

If the LPG runs low, it switches back to petrol.

And you are able to switch LPG/petrol under any load conditions.

So for me it was the right decision to have it converted.

Till now I saved (including the price system) about 3400$.

Not bad at all.

Regards Psycho :-)

[BodybyFisher]

That is great, thank you! I can see this becoming more popular. I would love to see a dyno run with this set up...

As expensive as petrol is over there, you did a smart thing, and you are driving a big car!

[Cadillac Jim]

You answered one engineering question: the heat to evaporate the LPG for use by the engine as a gas is taken from the cooling system. To me, this means that this is a slight but definable advantage for use in extremely high temperatures, such as long highway rides at higher speeds in desert areas in summer.

In the late summer and early fall of 1968, I was driving a 1969 Cheverolet four-door sedan with the 235 cid straight OHV six-cylinder engine. I had installed a dealer-option air conditioner and an overdrive transmission from a recycling yard. Due to work commitments, I was driving back and forth from Austin, TX to San Diego about once a month. The first thing I found out was that if my bias-ply nylon cord tires weren't in perfect condition when I left Austin, they would shred the first day. The Firestone store in Midland-Odessa knew me.

The going rate in NM-AZ on arrow-straight predecessor of IH 10, US 70 or whatever, was about 80 mph (130 kph). The altitude was about 4,000 feet or so, more or less, and the temperature was around 100 F. You could hold a steady 80 mph and you would pass no one, and no one would pass you, occasionally for hours at a time. Of course there were exceptions but 80 mph seemed safe and reasonably economical of fuel.

One long, hot day, I came upon a new Lincoln with four or five men in suits in it, apparently going about 75 mph, and I passed them, using second gear with overdrive to come around them at about 90 mph, then dropped back to 80 mph when I had established a safe distance of a few hundred feet. A few minutes later, the Lincoln came struggling around me, straining, flat-out, at about 90 mph. Of course, I let him pass uneventfully. Curious, I looked at the car, and all of the men were staring straight ahead like mannequins. The Lincoln held about 85 mph and slowly passed out of sight. But, a few minutes later, I came upon it again, and passed it again.

This situation repeated itself two or three more times. So, after I passed the slowing Lincoln once again, instead of holding 90 mph, I moved up to 110 mph and held it until the Lincoln was out of sight behind me and then about 15 minutes more, then dropped back to 95 mph for a little while, then eventually to my comfortable cruising speed of 80 mph.

Late that afternoon I came to a jog-in-the-road that had a filling station as well as a couple of other buildings, perhaps a tavern and a store or auto shop or whatever. As I was filling up, I heard off in the distance down the road, "bonk-bonk-bonkety-bonk-bonk" and I walked out to the road and looked.

Back the way I had come, I could see that Lincoln in the distance. Oil smoke was pouring out under the car and out both sides. The noises were apparently coming from the engine. I thought that they would be coming into the filling station for oil, water, and gas, but, noooo, the Lincoln passed through the jog in the road at the speed limit, main bearings audibly playing volleyball with the crankshaft, voluminous oil smoke puffing out the oil breather under the car and out the dual exhausts, driver and passengers eyes fixed straight ahead like mannequins, and passed on out of town. After I finished my fill-up and bug-scraping duties, I moved on at my customary 80 mph, but never saw that Lincoln again.

Now, if that Lincoln had LPG with some of the cooling being accomplished by evaporating the LNG for use as fuel, maybe things would have turned out better.

[cadillacjeff7777]

Michigan license plate fees are expensive. My Fleetwood Brougham is $132 per year and the Sevilles are $170 per year.

When I lived in West Michigan I drove to Ohio to get plates. They were $30 each and I had two Sevilles at the time.

[cadillacjeff7777]

Does anyone know where a conversion kit can be obtained from for an 2008 N*? LPG or CNG.

[Texas Jim]

Does anyone know where a conversion kit can be obtained from for an 2008 N*? LPG or CNG.

Jeff...

You might start here...

http://alternativefuels.about.com/od/propan1/a/propaneconvert.htm

[cadillacjeff7777]

All links lead down to broken links and web pages long forgotten about

I guess that they are not made anymore.

[joeb]

anyone know if a propane setup uses the factory injectors? or is a new different throttlebody adapter installed? the propane is a gas, not a liquid so i do not think stock injectors work right. i think our propane forklift has a little TB carb replacement.

[Cadillac Jim]

Actually the link leads to the results of an Ask.com search on LPG conversions. This is an ongoing industry. The "More about..." links lead to more Ask.com articles; look at more of the links.