WarrenJ Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I posted this back on August 24th of '07 ( http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...=14703&st=0 ). Given the current U.S. election cycle I thought it might be appropriate to raise the issue again. Give a look: <a href="http://www.onthefencefilms.com/video/brainsurgery.html" target="_blank">http://www.onthefencefilms.com/video/brainsurgery.html</a> Do you really want a socialist health care system? Outside of Sweden it simply hasn't worked anywhere. And I'm giving Sweden the benefit of the doubt. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I posted this back on August 24th of '07 ( <a href="http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...=14703&st=0" target="_blank">http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...=14703&st=0</a> ). Given the current U.S. election cycle I thought it might be appropriate to raise the issue again. Give a look: <a href="http://www.onthefencefilms.com/video/brainsurgery.html" target="_blank">http://www.onthefencefilms.com/video/brainsurgery.html</a> Do you really want a socialist health care system? Outside of Sweden it simply hasn't worked anywhere. And I'm giving Sweden the benefit of the doubt. Regards, Warren I do not know if a socialist healthcare system is the answer but something has to be done to control costs. How much do you pay for healthcare? If you work in a big company you probably do not have a clue how much healthcare costs. For example, I have my own business, I was paying for a 2 person group policy for me, my wife, and 2 kids (ages 4 & 9). I do not smoke, I am a little overweight, but other than that I consider myself and my family about average. My original policy, about 5 years ago, was around $500.00/month. That was with $100 deductable, $20.00 doctor visits. It was very good coverage. The next year it went to about $600/month. The next year it went to $700/month, so we uped the deductable to $2500 in order to bring it back to $600. Then it went to $700/month. The next year it went to $780/month. My only alternative was to go to a $5000 deduct. I struggled to pay the premium, then the last year they wanted $860/month. That was it. That would have been a nice Cadillac payment at least I would see where my money was going. I have checked around but my premiums are still around $700/month. I am in the process of checking on a state backed program for self employed people. I meet all the requirements except not having insurance for 1 year, which leaves me just a couple of more months. Another self employed co-worker of mine is in his mid 50's and he pays $1200/month for just him and his wife. Basically my premiums jumped about 9-19 percent a year. I may wait for Walmarts Health Plan. So, how much do you pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I work for a large company, and I still pay $400.00 a month... MY PART... just for me and the wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I work for a large company, and I still pay $400.00 a month... MY PART... just for me and the wife. Larger companies are paying less of the insurance to cut costs, therefore passing the buck to the employee. My grip was that after paying 700+ per year for a $2500 deductable policy I was still stuck with paying an additional $2500 more per year if I used it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jim Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I work for a large company, and I still pay $400.00 a month... MY PART... just for me and the wife. Larger companies are paying less of the insurance to cut costs, therefore passing the buck to the employee. My grip was that after paying 700+ per year for a $2500 deductable policy I was still stuck with paying an additional $2500 more per year if I used it. Mine is $400.00 a month...my part. Then there is the $25.00 Dr visit and the $2,500.00 deductable for EACH of us. $5,000.00 total deductable if both of us had to use it during the year...then it only pays 80% of whatever the hospital bill is. Let me re-phrase that... they will pay 80% of what THEY deem necessary while you are in the hospital. A couple of years ago... wife was in the hospital for a while. My total out of pocket costs was over $9,000.00. That hurt the ole wallet. Not the best insurance by far.... but it beats nothing. I can't buy my own policy with comparable benifits for that price...(400 a month)... so I keep what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Having the Government pay for health insurance isn't a way to reduce costs. For openers, the money still comes out of your pocket through taxes or worse, the deficit, plus the overhead of dealing with it, the health care bureaucracy that results. Second, observe Canada and the problems there when the Government runs health care. I've read that health care costs are being driven by defensive medicine, which is every conceivable test under the sun at the slightest indication, which in turn is driven by the malpractice insurance companies. It's not the premiums, it's the extra MRI for arthritis, just to make sure that you don't have a cancer in there, or the extra Thorium scan because your daddy had a heart attack at your age. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 For those readers who are located close enough to our northern border cousins (Ontario) to be familiar/comfortable with Canadian media terminology, this recent report from the Toronto Star should be of interest. The province of Ontario is the home of (much) more than 50% of the population of Canada. Events in the Ontario economy eventually reverberate from coast to coast in Canada. Public officials in Ontario using terms like "falling apart" and "illegal deficets" and "service cuts" do not exactly inspire confidence in a government funded health care system. http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/345870 I sense I am repeating myself. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL T Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 I am good friends with a local hospital CEO and I ask him what the answer is. He said it is not just one thing that causes the high costs. He said there has to be cuts from everyone across the board from Doctors to hospitals to insurance to drug companies to money hungry lawyers seeking a payoff from someones mistake. We already have government regulated healthcare called Medicare. You will always find abuses in any system private or government run. Also our media seems to only find the bad aspects and overlook the good. It is like all Northstars leak oil on this forum. Even though we know there are a majority of Northstars out there that do not. No matter what happens there will not be a one size fits all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted March 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 I posted this back on August 24th of '07 ( <a href="http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...=14703&st=0" target="_blank">http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...=14703&st=0</a> ). Given the current U.S. election cycle I thought it might be appropriate to raise the issue again. Give a look: <a href="http://www.onthefencefilms.com/video/brainsurgery.html" target="_blank">http://www.onthefencefilms.com/video/brainsurgery.html</a> Do you really want a socialist health care system? Outside of Sweden it simply hasn't worked anywhere. And I'm giving Sweden the benefit of the doubt. Regards, Warren I do not know if a socialist healthcare system is the answer but something has to be done to control costs. How much do you pay for healthcare? If you work in a big company you probably do not have a clue how much healthcare costs. For example, I have my own business, I was paying for a 2 person group policy for me, my wife, and 2 kids (ages 4 & 9). I do not smoke, I am a little overweight, but other than that I consider myself and my family about average. My original policy, about 5 years ago, was around $500.00/month. That was with $100 deductable, $20.00 doctor visits. It was very good coverage. The next year it went to about $600/month. The next year it went to $700/month, so we uped the deductable to $2500 in order to bring it back to $600. Then it went to $700/month. The next year it went to $780/month. My only alternative was to go to a $5000 deduct. I struggled to pay the premium, then the last year they wanted $860/month. That was it. That would have been a nice Cadillac payment at least I would see where my money was going. I have checked around but my premiums are still around $700/month. I am in the process of checking on a state backed program for self employed people. I meet all the requirements except not having insurance for 1 year, which leaves me just a couple of more months. Another self employed co-worker of mine is in his mid 50's and he pays $1200/month for just him and his wife. Basically my premiums jumped about 9-19 percent a year. I may wait for Walmarts Health Plan. So, how much do you pay? Paul, I'm a bit late in replying. You know, you kinda "got" me there on the point regarding who is paying for my health care. I was self employed for over twenty years. I have first hand knowledge of paying the health care premiums in addition to both ends of my S.S. taxes. The pain was great. That likely played importantly when I decided, in my reclining/declining years, to scrap it all and go "Big-Corp." I realize, however, that "Big-Corp" doesn't actually pay my health care premiums in toto; it's simply part of my compensation package. Absent those premiums, my pay package would just be larger. So, in essence, I'm contributing to those premiums out of my paycheck. It's also fair to say, however, that my employer is also contributing a part of that payment so as to remain competitive in the job market. Now, I'm no tax expert, but I suspect there are some tax advantages to my employer as a result of this. One party is fond of remarking upon those 47 million folk who are medically uninsured. I'd argue the figures, buts let continue, and I will: you see, nearly half of those are young single folk making over $75,000 a year who would rather put their spare cash into a BMW lease payment than into a health care plan. That's understandable, they're immortal (in their young view) ; I was there at one time. Others are "street folk" simply not responsible for their own welfare. These are the ones we need most to care for in a charitable sense. The remainder, those able to normally care for themselves, but who might be suffering dire unexpected circumstances, are the most in need of our compassion. Let's just DO IT! While the health care system may need reform, I'd recommend caution. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 .... Others are "street folk" simply not responsible for their own welfare. These are the ones we need most to care for in a charitable sense. The remainder, those able to normally care for themselves, but who might be suffering dire unexpected circumstances, are the most in need of our compassion. Let's just DO IT! While the health care system may need reform, I'd recommend caution. Regards, Warren Between Election Day 1992, and some point during the following year, cooler heads and hard cold facts prevailed over version one of Hillary-care (check the NYT archives for reports of all the "Congressional Leaders" taking extended trips to Little Rock in November and December of '92). Some of those cooler heads still have political juice and the hard cold facts are even more compelling today. As a compassionate people, we can & should cautiously spend the money at home. Maybe at the expense of our compassion for others through the Foreign Aid budget as only one of many examples? Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted March 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 As a compassionate people, we can & should cautiously spend the money at home. Maybe at the expense of our compassion for others through the Foreign Aid budget as only one of many examples? I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on this, but in the end our foreign aid budget doesn't seem to amount to such a great deal: only a few drops in a trillions-of-a-gallon-bucket. Still, it's well meant (for the most part). I'm pleased that the U.S. and its citizens have come to be shown (if not acknowledged) as the most compassionate and charitable civilization that has ever existed in the history of the known Universe. I do my (very) own small part. Maybe it's obnoxious of me to blow our own horn; so be it. Dispute it if you will. We have large amounts of money to "spend at home." Would that we would do it more wisely. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LINDAL Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 How many of you really know what kind of coverage you have? I am in the process of getting another Bachelor's degree in Healthcare Management. I have a Bacherlor's in Accounting. I work at a University and have the opportunity to take classes for free. So, I have decided to get involved in the healthcare industry. In my research I have discovered that several people do not know what type of medical coverage they have until it is too late. Walmart employees have insurance but some only have a max of $1000 coverage. Is that coverage at all? One trip to ER would wipe that out and then some. Some of you who are self employed and pay premiums. Do you realize that a lot of companies will cancel your coverage as soon as you start using your policy? Then where do you go? Other insurance companies will not cover you because of a pre existing condition and you have to be close to bankruptcy to get Medicaid. You might be able to get the insurance board to vote in your favor. But what do you do if you need chemotherapy or an operation to save your life? Take the time to fight with the Insurance company. Is a National Healthcare system the answer? Should you have to be completly penniless to get healthcare? I don't agree that the 47 million uninsured in this country are young or not taking care of themselves anyway. I was one of the uninsured for a few years. In the 80's I worked for a small corporation that had healthcare but it would have taken my entire $4.25 an hour I made to cover me and my husband. Guess what happened during that time? I got pregnant and had a baby with no health coverage. I worked until he was born. I found out after the fact I would have been better off to quit 3 months before and would have had the entire bill paid and food stamps and a check for utilities every month. We owned our house or I would have received more a month but I was not eligible because I made a whole $4.25 an hour. Instead I made payments on the birth of my son for 2 years. I was penalized because I worked! It is my understanding that the system works close to the same now. People are told to divorce their spouse so that they can get on Medicaid. Is this what we want to instill in our people? Quit your jobs and divorce your spouses so you can get on Public Aid! I soon went back to a job that I had worked a few years earlier at a local hospital in Medical Records that had health coverage for me and my family. I stayed for years to finish school and cover the family with insurance. My husband had a small business selling grape vine wreaths and floral supplies. We did our best to make it in our area. The 47 million figure only counts the people who did not have healthcare coverage for the full year. So, if you had coverage in January and not in December you were not counted. The figure of the uninsured for any portion of the year is much higher. People have circumstances that require them to leave employment (sickness, etc) and lose coverage. We have the family leave act but if you have to use it and leave to care for someone you lose your coverage unless you make your insurance payments. I could go on about a few other personal experiences I have had in dealing with no insurance. But, I am sure others have encountered the same as I. Such as a relative who can get whatever medication he needs for no copay while I work and have to pay $10 to $40 or more for each presciption I get. This relative is hooked on Xanax and some type of sleeping pill and receives these medications for free to continue his addiction. I would like to change jobs and go in the health field but I dare not right now because I would not have healthcare coverage for 3 months. A National Healthcare insurance would help solve the problem of having continous coverage but is it the answer? I don't know. What is the answer? If someone has the answer let me know. We spend money on everything else except healthcare for everyone.. I would hope that we can figure out some solution to these problems. Our country definitley has a problem and it will get worse until we decide to deal with it and put an effort into solving the problem. Just my 2 cents worth!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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