rmac-etc Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I've done some searching here and no one seems to have replaced a steering rack ( and lived to tell the story perhaps?) ... also, isn't there a way to search the old archives? Couldn't find a way so maybe not ... There are references to steering to rack connection problems and a few tie rod end issues, but no rack replacement. I'm getting the feeling that its one of the more difficult repairs ... not by any means in the league of a timesert or trans input speed sensor , but not to be taken lightly. --- why am I considering this? 2 things: 1. My power assist has been iffy for a very long time, sometimes when parking its barely assisting at all, I just have to muscle it, my wife can't do it. I replaced the power steering pump a long time ago and it helped a little but was not the real problem. There is pretty much only one other culprit I think ... the rack. 2. I need an alignment and suspect the tie rod ends are probably marginal at best (ball joints are good, replaced about 30k ago) hmmmm probably should do the shocks (and springs as BBF advises) too. So if anyone has done it, I would be interested in comments or advice. This is a 95 ETC, slightly over 160k. Thanks much ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weephee Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I have done it and not easy by any means. One of the hardest parts is to take the manifold shield off. Once the two bolts are removed it is still hard to get out. The next PIDA is removing the oil lines without getting steering fluid all over everything and yourself. Remember to remove the electrical connector. Once you get the three large bolts which hold the rack in place off, and the outer tie rods disconnected its a matter of turning and pulling it out. You also have to lower the back of the engine cradle a couple of inches without letting it drop so you need to support the engine. Not mind boggling but just difficult. Not a lot of room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 My 88 Eldorado is probably different than yours but I did change mine out several years ago. I ended up putting in a quick ratio rack that was made for the STS. It was not a difficult job. The hardest part was all the grease underneath and getting the pipe fittings to thread up. It took me about 2 hours to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 I've done some searching here and no one seems to have replaced a steering rack ( and lived to tell the story perhaps?) ... also, isn't there a way to search the old archives? Couldn't find a way so maybe not ... There are references to steering to rack connection problems and a few tie rod end issues, but no rack replacement. I'm getting the feeling that its one of the more difficult repairs ... not by any means in the league of a timesert or trans input speed sensor , but not to be taken lightly. --- why am I considering this? 2 things: 1. My power assist has been iffy for a very long time, sometimes when parking its barely assisting at all, I just have to muscle it, my wife can't do it. I replaced the power steering pump a long time ago and it helped a little but was not the real problem. There is pretty much only one other culprit I think ... the rack. 2. I need an alignment and suspect the tie rod ends are probably marginal at best (ball joints are good, replaced about 30k ago) hmmmm probably should do the shocks (and springs as BBF advises) too. So if anyone has done it, I would be interested in comments or advice. This is a 95 ETC, slightly over 160k. Thanks much ... Go to Regis's blog, he replaced his rack, or I believe his mechanic did, I think he watched the job. With regard to the springs, many here disagree with me to replace the springs, but I am happy I did replace them, you will see what I mean when you do.. especially if your struts have been bad for awhile, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 There is pretty much only one other culprit I think ... the rack. With respect, your diagnosis is flawed. A speed sensitive power steering system consists of more than just a pump and a rack. You have a ways to go before you can confidently assume the rack to be bad. Perhaps someone with experience with this system will yet chime in. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 It is possible that the steering positon sensor is malfunctioning and not letting the system go to full power assist when parking. I don't know if a bad sensor would set a code but it's worth a check anyway. You could also unplug the sensor and the system should default to full power assist at all times. If full power assist is present, it would confirm a bad steering sensor. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 It is possible that the steering positon sensor is malfunctioning and not letting the system go to full power assist when parking. I don't know if a bad sensor would set a code but it's worth a check anyway. You could also unplug the sensor and the system should default to full power assist at all times. If full power assist is present, it would confirm a bad steering sensor. Thanks Kevin. That's the sort of useful info I wanted to see. I looked at the manual, but didn't find info I could understand and put into meaningful tips. Still damned if I can quite figure out what a "pinion spool valve" is. Or, exactly what it does. Maybe you're beginning to understand power steering is not my strong point? Thanks for your input. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefank Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 On my '96 you can choose either mode (more or less power assist) from the diagnosis menu accessed through the heater panel. You sure feel the difference at the steering wheel! Can you do this on the '95 as well? Stefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I've done some searching here and no one seems to have replaced a steering rack ( and lived to tell the story perhaps?) ... also, isn't there a way to search the old archives? Couldn't find a way so maybe not ... There are references to steering to rack connection problems and a few tie rod end issues, but no rack replacement. I'm getting the feeling that its one of the more difficult repairs ... not by any means in the league of a timesert or trans input speed sensor , but not to be taken lightly. --- why am I considering this? 2 things: 1. My power assist has been iffy for a very long time, sometimes when parking its barely assisting at all, I just have to muscle it, my wife can't do it. I replaced the power steering pump a long time ago and it helped a little but was not the real problem. There is pretty much only one other culprit I think ... the rack. 2. I need an alignment and suspect the tie rod ends are probably marginal at best (ball joints are good, replaced about 30k ago) hmmmm probably should do the shocks (and springs as BBF advises) too. So if anyone has done it, I would be interested in comments or advice. This is a 95 ETC, slightly over 160k. Thanks much ... I dunno but I think there needs to be more information posted before we can say that the rack is bad. Of course it could be the rack though. I had a lot of issues that pointed to the rack going south but a power assist issue wasn't one of them. I think Kevin and Warren have good reason to suspect something else. I know you replaced the pump but are you sure the fluid is cycling properly? Here's the link to my steering rack replacement thread: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10909 Be sure to follow the links within the thread. Some good info in there. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 For anyone interested, 1995 Power Steering Component Layout: There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 WarrenJ, et all, You mentioned "pinon spool valve", but perhaps you meant "pintle", not "pinon". Even in my addled state, I recognized battling infamous "pintle" valves, as a critical component of hydraulic or pneumatic distribution or relay systems. Simply put, the dang little thing-ama-jig is a finely-machined pin with wider and narrower diameters that diverts flow according to a sliding position that it is forced into by another control device (typically a low-level steering input). The following link has lot of neat charts in any case. Your "significant other" may think you are really clever if you print these out and pretend to study them intently while making scribbled entries to improve the engineering, (mumbling optional, but helpful). http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/Te...6lr%3D%26sa%3DG Good luck, Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 WarrenJ, et all, You mentioned "pinon spool valve", but perhaps you meant "pintle", not "pinon". NOPE: I mentioned and meant "pinion spool valve." I meant "pinion," not "pinon." I still mean "pinion." Addled state?? Happy New Year! Regards, Warren P.S. Nice link, BTW. There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac-etc Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 It is possible that the steering positon sensor is malfunctioning and not letting the system go to full power assist when parking. I don't know if a bad sensor would set a code but it's worth a check anyway. You could also unplug the sensor and the system should default to full power assist at all times. If full power assist is present, it would confirm a bad steering sensor. The steering is not throwing any codes, but this is certainly a good check. Where is the sensor located??? (Yeah, I know, I need to get an fsm , this forum is so helpful, I haven't needed one yet! Heck, the car's only 13 yrs old, what's the hurry. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 It is possible that the steering positon sensor is malfunctioning and not letting the system go to full power assist when parking. I don't know if a bad sensor would set a code but it's worth a check anyway. You could also unplug the sensor and the system should default to full power assist at all times. If full power assist is present, it would confirm a bad steering sensor. The steering is not throwing any codes, but this is certainly a good check. Where is the sensor located??? (Yeah, I know, I need to get an fsm , this forum is so helpful, I haven't needed one yet! Heck, the car's only 13 yrs old, what's the hurry. ) See post #10. There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac-etc Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Thanks, my gin addled brain did not register that very helpful post! So, in studying the diagram and looking for what we are calling the "steering positon sensor", is it #2, the "Speed sens.. solenoid valve" that if disconnected would allow full power assist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I need to check the service manual but I think there is a steering wheel position sensor that lets the system know how fast the steering wheel is rotated and uses that data to adjust the rate. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 The other posters in this thread are right, there are many more components that can make the steering hard to steer. There could be a small leak in the power steering system that is letting in air. I would look for signs of moisture around the PS pump, also check for bubbles in the reservoir. Another cause could be worn out strut bearings. They are the round plastic things that are found under the strut bushings, which is the big rubber pad on top of your springs. One sign of bad strut bushings is poor steering wheel returnibility, and small rubber shreds in your wheel well area. The only way to tell for sure is a physical inspection of the strut mounts. Also poor alignment could cause sterring problems, but this is probably not it as the steering would be difficult only when the car is moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 If it were not speed (RPM) dependent, I would suspect also the tensioner on the steering gear. Easy to adjust. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac-etc Posted January 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Its not speed dependent in that the difficulty is only at parking speeds, and it varies. Sometimes the effort is not too bad, but other times its very difficult to steer. This first showed up 6-7 years ago. Back then I replaced the pump and it improved a bit but it still wasn't completely right. Its getting worse again. There is no leakage, no bubbles or anything like that, which is making me think that the rack itself may not be the problem esp since it works almost ok some of the time. I have found references to a steering position sensor, but not much info otherwise. Something is controlling the amount of assist, and whatever that is should be the first point of focus. Don't want to do the rack if I don't have a pretty good sense that it is really the fault ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Just a thought but have you considered changing the filter and flushing the fluid? Last night it was 21 degrees when I got to my car after work, the power assist was poor, I was thinking that the fluid must have been thick due to the cold..and I need to change the filter and fluid. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Its not speed dependent in that the difficulty is only at parking speeds, and it varies. Sometimes the effort is not too bad, but other times its very difficult to steer. This is where you will notice the problem - at parking speeds, the system should provide full assist. You notice the problem at parking speeds because you are expecting full assist and it is intermittent. I'll look up the location of the steering position seneor this evening and post back. I didn't get a chance yesterday. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 The steering position sensor is at the base of the steering column - In order to remove it, the column must be removed from the vehicle... someone with a 1995 service manual should be able to post some diagnostic information. I don't know if the '95 is similar to the '96 and '97 but my shop manuals only go back to '96. The '96 is OBD-2 (More diagnostics codes/features) while the '95 is OBD-1. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac-etc Posted January 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 ok, time to get my own d**m fsm . Remove the steering column? That sounds worse than replacing the rack ... like a spinal cord transplant . I will continue to study the problem but might just decide to live with it ... as always, all the help/advice is appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 rmac-etc, Please don't forget for even a moment I am dismally unaware of power steering systems. I haven't yet been able to find mention in my 1995 service manual of the "Steering Position" sensor. Neither is the narrative in the manual very helpful. Nor, apparently, am I. If I find anything helpful I'll be certain to pass it on to you. Yes, you've done well without a FSM up 'till now . . . . . , but it's better to have a Factory Service Manual BEFORE you need it. Somehow it seems never to be available just WHEN you need it. Just a thought. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlinde Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Hi, With experience from rack and pinion steering system replacement ( I have repaired one internally a long time ago without real success) I have to say: Buy a remanufactured one and you can get rid of all thinking of repairing different pieces. The real problem is of course to get it out of the car. When you follow the instructions the hard reached part is the mounting bolt to steering rack just above where the plastic cover ends over the rack. Be VERY careful to lock the Steering wheel in a straight ahead position and also at the same time have the rack in straght ahead position. This is for the clock spring electric connection for the steering wheel airbag not to be out of position. Do not turn the steering wheel again before the rack is back on the steering rack splines again. ( I had no idea of this clock spring on a 90 Mustang and it took me many hours to figure out the straight ahead position again). /Jan L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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