Confirmed: Cadillac STS and DTS to Merge, also add smaller-than-CTS model

[Bruce Nunnally]

autonews.com is reporting that Cadillac will be merging the STS and DTS lines, and also developing a new car slotted below the CTS in price.

So arguably, we don't need two entries there anymore, given the shrinkage of that segment,” Jim Taylor, Cadillac's general manager, said last week in an interview here with Automotive News.

Taylor said that neither car is going away per se but, rather, one car will combine the best attributes of both and eventually fill that segment. He did not give a time frame.

No time frame was given by autonews.com in the article, but it is widely assumed that with the planned DTS redesign to RWD on the zeta platform in 2010 we would see the STS and DTS lines merge into one vehicle.

Taylor has thus far resisted slotting a car in below the CTS, but also confirmed that the marque would benefit from a new car that could address a different customer market group. A variant of the kappa platform mixed with sigma could fill this role perhaps. Hopefully Cadillac will be able to bring forward a new car and not simply import or rebadge an existing export model.

Separately, it is also expected that Cadillac will release coupe and convertible variants of the newly redesigned CTS.

[MAC]

Speaking of the CTS, I saw a nice Dark Cherry Red one today going in the opposite direction. It looks like GM brought back DK Cherry Metallic color which I understand from one of Caddyinfo's members was phased out after 1997 due to lack interest. I would recommend DK Cherry for a CTS.

[Dasher]

I've been saying for a month (since I bought my 08 STS a month ago today) that Caddy would have to do something drastic to improve the appeal of the STS or STS buyers would be drawn to the CTS.

I'm not sure this is the best move. It looks like the STS will have to be bigger and the DTS will have to be smaller.

It might suit STS drivers if they combine the power and performance with it; but I doubt that a smaller DTS will appeal to those big car drivers.

I do think they need a smaller car than the CTS if for no other reason than price considerations. The starting prices they quote for the CTS are fine; but, when you get it equipped the way you want it, you're looking at a 50K price tag.

It's obvious to me that the CTS has moved into the STS neighborhood.

I know that a lot of people have been drawn to the lower prices on the recent STS models; but they aren't really driving STS's and I doubt that those cars will inspire the same enthusiasm and model loyalty of the earlier STS's. When I bought my 93 STS I thought there was nothing like it; but the current STS's are just a shadow of what that car was performance wise. Of course I have never had the opportunity to drive a top of the line STS in the current model either.

[Bruce Nunnally]

I know a loaded CTS is around US$45K, which is certainly in DTS territory. Cadillac will have to double sales of the CTS in order to replace the DTS and CTS sales together with the new model CTS, which seems unlikely to me.

[adallak]

IMHO a Cadillac must be big, fast and easily distinguishable on the road.

[abad95]

IMHO a Cadillac must be big, fast and easily distinguishable on the road.

Exactly Adallak!

Florin

[Ranger]

I doubt that a smaller DTS will appeal to those big car drivers.

All GM has to do is look back at what happened in the late '80's. Remember those downsized Devilles? They did not go over very well.

[Bruce Nunnally]

I don't think a Cadillac has to be BIG. I would like to see large sedans continue to be available as Cadillacs. I would also like a variety of 2-seaters, convertibles, and coupes as rumored/planned. If Cadillac makes a slightly smaller and LIGHTER car than the CTS and puts the new powertrains in it I would definitely consider it as a next vehicle. I can almost justify a 2-seater now, since my car is most often used with 2 or fewer people in it, but need 4 seats on occasion. I don't need more room than the CTS really, even when sitting in the back. On the other hand, I am always happy with a better power/weight ratio.

But slap a Cadillac emblem on a Saturn Sky and put the DI3.6L engine in it for $35K and show me where to sign up.

[abad95]

If I want something smaller and reliable I'll go with an Import, or something less expensive.

Cadillac should of learned from the past.

The XLR can't be doing better than the Eldo neither....

A lot of people were dissapointed when the 4 seat coupe was gone,weren't they?

I know I'll never give up my STS for a newer STS unless It's a Supercharged Northstar,but I would defenitely would prefer the detuned XV12 engine in one of them.

Just 2 cents.

The car to have right now is the new CTS like Dasher.

Florin

[Bruce Nunnally]

Since the next size up from the Mercedes C-class is perhaps the Mercedes E-class, (not the D-class) should the DTS+STS replacement be the Cadillac ETS?

Then in current naming fashion the upmarket performance variant would be the ETS-V, not the STS, although the STS would still be appropriate in mock-mercedes name coding for the super-high-end car Cadillac craves?

[Texas Jim]

I don't think a Cadillac has to be BIG. I would like to see large sedans continue to be available as Cadillacs. I would also like a variety of 2-seaters, convertibles, and coupes as rumored/planned. If Cadillac makes a slightly smaller and LIGHTER car than the CTS and puts the new powertrains in it I would definitely consider it as a next vehicle. I can almost justify a 2-seater now, since my car is most often used with 2 or fewer people in it, but need 4 seats on occasion. I don't need more room than the CTS really, even when sitting in the back. On the other hand, I am always happy with a better power/weight ratio.

But slap a Cadillac emblem on a Saturn Sky and put the DI3.6L engine in it for $35K and show me where to sign up.

I have to disagree with Bruce a little bit, taking into account that he is probably 25 years younger than I am and in better shape.

I need a car with the room of the DTS and really wouldn't mind it being a little bit bigger, at least INSIDE.

My dealer has loaned me a CTS a couple of times when my DTS was having something fixed. I liked them real well for around town, but not for trips. With the 3.6 they are really fun to drive.

I drove one with the 3.6 and the Luxury / Sport package.... it was fun. Ran VERY WELL, but was just a tiny bit too small for me. On a 150 miles drive, made my knees and hips hurt a little.

That may be partly my fault. On trips, if I am driving faster than traffic, I DRIVE it, I do not use the cruise control. I feel partly out of control of the vehicle if it is on cruise. I am not connected to it enough, if I am not sitting up straight and my foot is on the accelarator.

One other time, had a CTS that was pretty much a base model. Think it had a 3.2 in it. Day and night difference in the 2 cars. Underpowered, handling was not impressive at all. Lots of body lean in corners. Didn't like to be pushed at all. Didn't like it.

Cadillac ALWAYS needs to have a BIG sedan for the people like me, who want a Cadillac that is big and comfortable and smooth. It don't have to be a behemoth on the OUTSIDE, but needs to have plenty of room INSIDE.

I have arthritis pretty bad, in my lower back, hips and knees. I need a lot of room to be comfortable. If I am going to pay $50,000 or more for a car... it "WILL" be big and comfortable, or I will not buy it. Period. Be it a Cadillac or whatever.

The reason I bought my first 2006 DTS was the pleasant experiance I had when I rented one for a week.

But I have to admit, my '06 DTS Performance Sedan is not quite as comfortable as the rental. The rental was a Lux 2, had a smoother ride and had the bench seat. My Performance Sedan has bucket seats and a lot harsher ride. For my particular body size and with the arthritis, the bench seat was more comfortable. But that is just me.

Don't get me wrong, I love my DTS Performance Sedan. It is probably the best, high speed, highway cruiser, I have ever driven. It is no problem to cover 600 to 800 miles a day in comfort. Seems like the faster you run.... the faster it WANTS to run.

With the Magnetic Ride and 255x50x18 tires, it is solid as a rock at any sane speed and even at some insane speeds.

It also has that pretty Northstar song as it winds up to 6500 RPM. I have to do WOT's every once in a while. I learned THAT on this board.

[Dasher]

Let's face it, for years the people who could afford Cadillacs were older; and nature being what it is, they were also broader. Appropriately, Cadillac made their seats to fit their main customers.

Although I am 79 years old, I'm 5' 10" and 160 lbs. I have been driving STS's since the 1993 model and I have NEVER had my back touch both bolsters on my bucket seats at the same time until I bought my 2008 CTS a month ago. This one fits me to a "T".

That's why Cadillac should make cars in several sizes so everybody who wants a really nice car can have one that fits them. I'm sure they know what they're doing (well, they should know); but I can't see how combining the STS and the DTS is a good idea. I still say though that the STS has to be given a real make over ala the CTS.

Bruce, I think the Caddy smaller than the CTS will be called PTS Cruiser; but then, maybe not. Ha!

[JIMDTS]

It may be a good idea as long as Cadillac does not down size the Deville too much. I like the ride of the larger deville the seating in the deville is much larger I have driven all the new cadillacs The best riding of the bunch is the Devilles I like the looks of some of the other models I know when I drive a cts or sts I don't have the leg room I like. In the CTS I feel cramped same with the STS with the Deville it's just rite for me I'm 6 feet not that tall I do drive with the seat all the way back I like the leg room in the Deville which other models do not offer I miss th BIG Cadillacs the old Fleetwoods another line dropped along with the Eldo which was a great car Cadillac should have updated that one. Cadillac does make design & model mistakes this could be another one

Jim

[95SevilleSLS]

I thought the new DTS was a little small to begin with and now they want to make it smaller AND cut out the STS? I think that's a little strange. They should have left the deville in place and kept it large for the older market and for people who want a smooth comfortable ride and that's FWD. Then they should leave the STS for the larger sporty sedan and then have the CTS for the smaller, more inexpensive sedan. Now what is the market that prefers larger, more smoother riding sedans supposed to do? They are left with no option but go to a Buick lucerne or something of that nature. I know up here peple love the FWD large devilles because they ride nice and they handle very nicely in the winter. Sure they can get an AWD version later on, but people do not like getting that up here because of mileage. Cadillac will loose a lot of customers around here, that's for sure.

[ELDO GUY]

Whats with making all these cars smaller ? Im a big guy 6'3' and about 220. I drove a cts the other day and it was small I couldn't sit up straight in the back seat. How bout 2 sets of clubs in this car almost impossible. I have a 2000 Eldo in pristine condition and get offers to buy it almost weekly. The dealer has called me twice in the last few months because he needs some Eldos on the Floor. The demand must still exist for a larger 2dr luxury/ sport car.

[BigCat83]

I prefer a two door coupe. It's only my wife and I so a four door car is not for us. I'd love an XLR but I don't have the loot for one. I've been looking at the STS and may consider one in the future, though I would prefer it in a two door coupe version. The thing is I really like my Eldorado and wish Cadillac was still making them, because I'd buy a newer one in a heartbeat. I would like to see Cadillac bring back the Eldorado as an up to date coupe and convertible .

[Bruce Nunnally]

Just to be clear, the new STS & DTS replacement will also be a large car, and is expected in 2010.

The new below-a-CTS replacement is a different new car, along with a CTS Coupe (2-door), and perhaps a wagon and a convertible.

[Marcus815]

Getting rid of the DTS? What are they, nuts? I don't know much about cars, but ever since I have been a kid when I think of Cadillac I think of the Deville. Kind of like the rock of gibraltar for Cadillac. Getting rid of that seems like a huge mistake to me.

I'm a big guy too. 6' 1" at 240 pounds and my 1993 Seville fits me well. The ES300 is rather small and the Chevy Blazer isn't much better, they are both tight for me and that's why I only drive each when the benefits of them are needed (Fuel Mileage/GPS and 4WD). The LS430 is very roomy inside but I'm not allowed to drive that because I've been told it's worth more than me So really, having a big car is kind of a requirement more than a desire for me.

I don't see why they don't import the SLS to the U.S. instead of only China these day. It looks like a really nice car to me.

[Texas Jim]

I don't see why they don't import the SLS to the U.S. instead of only China these day. It looks like a really nice car to me.

Marcus,

Now THAT is a statement I can agree with.

In the pictures I have seen of it ... I like everything about it. I would love to see one in person. It might give me "New Car Fever" again. I haven't seen anything that really gets my blood going in several years.

The last car I was really attached to was my 1980 Sedan de Ville that I bought new. Put over 200,000 miles on it over the 21 years I owned it. Really hated to see it go.

[JIMDTS]

I don't see why they don't import the SLS to the U.S. instead of only China these day. It looks like a really nice car to me.

The SLS may be a nice car I DO NOT want to see any Cadillac made in China in the US Cadillac can drive those cars rite up their rear end. We are losing jobs in the US the UAW is on strike & the auto makers keep screwing the American worker. I can afford any car I want & if this crap keeps up. I just might jump in the foreign car buyers pool & NOT buy an American built car F them. Cadillac at one time had a good reputation & it’s fading away in my book Cadillac if you read this YOU are going to lose plenty of loyal customers. I for one will jump ship Keep Cadillac in the US exporting them is fine importing them is when I’m gone. I have purchased over 20+ cadillacs in my life time & this one maybe be my LAST go sell them in CHINA see how long you will last!

Jim

[Texas Jim]

I don't want to buy an import ... be it a Cadillac or whatever.

What I meant to say, and wasn't clear about it... I would like to know more about the SLS and if it is as good as it looks... have it made "HERE" for sale "HERE"

Why have it just for the blooming Chinese? Don't the loyal American comsumers count for "ANYTHING?"

From past experience.... evidently NOT.

[JIMDTS]

Hi TJ

I don’t want to buy a foreign made car while living in the US. When I lived abroad I purchased foreign cars. When I lived in Europe I would buy Alfa’s, Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes. I have purchased plenty of European built cars while living in Europe. When I lived in Asia I have purchased Nissan & Toyota products. When I live in the US I have always owned a US built car mostly Cadillac. That could change in the near future I do not see it changing if the stuff I mentioned in the previous post does not change. I just may spend my monies elsewhere. I’m sure Mercedes-Benz would not mind taking my money or BMW. Very easy to beat the carmakers at their own game JUST shop elsewhere.I’m not going to buy an imported Cadillac.I bet in 10 to 15 yrs that will be the norm for them GM has built plants& still building plenty of cars abroad & putting these cars in a container aboard a ship is very easy to do.

[Texas Jim]

GM has built plants& still building plenty of cars abroad & putting these cars in a container aboard a ship is very easy to do.

Jim,

I hate to admit it Jim, but you are 100 percent correct. I really would hate to see it come to that. GM importing cars for sale here. I have a friend who recently retired from GM after 30 years.

May have to buy an older Fleetwood Brougham and do a restoration on it to get what I want. For what a new Caddy costs...... you could do a heck of a restoration on an older one and have it just like (or maybe better than) new.

[JIMDTS]

Hi TJ

I have a lot of friends & relatives that work for or are retired from GM. I would consider restoring a car if I had to on the other hand why let them make the monies on the parts to restore the car Foreign looks like a better option One day cadillac may just be a memory for me.

Jim