hiljak Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Hello everyone, I'm back so you know what that means, I have a problem!! I have a 1999 STS I'm working on for my dad that has two bad wheel bearings in the front. It got bad enough that the rotors kept going out of round due to the play in the wheel. I have done one of these before on a 1995 and it was nothing. This darn thing has me up to about 10 hours already!!. I have everything off, the wheel, the caliper, caliper mount, rotor, etc.. I've removed the large nut from the axle as well as the 3 bolts that hold the hub to the knuckle from the back. This sucker WILL NOT come loose from the axle. I have broken two hub puller tools on it. I've used a can of PB Blaster and nothing. WTF?? Anyone seen this before? I'm thinking it overheated or something and has turned the "grime" in between the axle and the hub into a make-shift weld. What can I do? I'm going to spray it down real good again with PB Blaster and let that sit over night. Any other Ideas? I thought about maybe heating the hub carefully with a propane torch but I don't know if that is a bad idea or not. Any help would be great. BTW, I have the alldata document on the swap out so I know there's no hardware I haven't removed. I've followed the steps to the letter. Somebody share some knowledge please. Thanks a ton. James 1999 STS 65k 1995 STS 127k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrez00 Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Seems to me you will need a better quality Hub puller tool. A good quality puller tool will not break under the force you are able to give it by hand.(try the one with the 3 arms.. and then heavy quality) Put it under some heavy pressure and then give some slams with a hammer on the outerhousing. Did mine just recently and i had to push some serious force on it for it to come loose. Good luck Marc If you are in complete control..... you are not going fast enough.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasher Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 I had that problem with my 2000 STS, which by the way had three hubs replaced in 136 miles. The dealer's mechanics never got the hub off and had to go back to the next stage (whatever that is) and replace from there. Fortunately, it was still uner the 100K warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Personally I think that a puller is the WRONG tool. You are pushing against an axle that is folding up and somewhat flexible, its not a solid surface. I never understood the use of the puller for this job. Its not that you are trying to remove the splined axle shaft from the hub bearing, the hub bearing is frozen in the knuckle, so you need to pull it from the knuckle. If I had your problem, I would purchase a heavy slide hammer that I would affix to the wheel studs or through the hole in the flange with two nuts and I would bang that sucka off using the slide hammer, turn the hub to attack it from different points on the circle... As it comes off, make sure that the splined axle shaft does not come with it, you DO NOT want to over extend the inner tri-pod joint... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadillac Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 I had a stubborn hub on my car. The puller was grinding a hole in the end of the axle shaft. With Ranger's advice, I used a ball bean hammer, and a sledge. Put the three bolts back into the hub to secure it to the knuckle. They don't need to be tight, just snug. Put the ball end of the ball peen against the axle shaft. Smack the ball peen with the sledge. mine took about ten hits and then started to back out of the hub. Once I had it out, I saw alot of rust on the hubs splines. I will assume that you will find the same when it is off. Good luck Don "Modern warriors saddle iron horses of chrome." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 6, 2007 Report Share Posted September 6, 2007 Don, I don't think that its the splined axle shaft that is holding it, although it might be a little bit, but you can tap that in with a brass rod and hammer, from what I have seen and experienced here, the hub bearing is frozen on the knuckle even though the three bolts are out, you think its stuck on the splined axle? I wonder if there are two types of frozen hubs, those stuck on the splined axle and those stuck on the knuckle? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddynut Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I just dealt with the same thing on my Mitsubishi. I hope that the splines aren't weathered on so tight that the shaft might have to come out too. I had to beat on the bearing and ruined the end of he shaft. Try a 3 arm gear puller, that might do the trick. it puts a lot of pressure just where you need it. 2008 BMW 328xi 2007 Chrysler Aspen 2001 Cadillac Seville STS 2000 Ford Ranger XLT1998 Mitsubishi Spyder Convertible 1996 Saturn SC-11991 Ford F-1501979 Chevrolet Caprice1968 Ford LTD1965 VW Beetle "Herbie The Love Bug Replica** 1961 VW Beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCat83 Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I changed a noisy hub when I Timeserted my Northstar last winter. I had to disconnect the hub carrier from the lower ball joint and the strut, pull the axle out of the trans. then push the axle out of the hub using my puller and IR 250# ft impact gun (even with the screws out that hub bearing wouldn't budge). Then I took the hub carrier with the hub still in it over to the bench and beat the p!$$ out of the bearing with a BFH (4# sledge) to get the hub out of the hub carrier. Put it all back together with 5# of never sieze. All's well after 10K miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve6 Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Any time I have had an issue I just put a piece of wood over the end of the drive axl and wack it with a hammer. The axl should release from the hub from there....Can't say i've never had one that didn't release doing that. Now getting the bearing out of the spindle when its not an assembly (a pressed in bearing to the spindle directly), that is no fun at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 We have had members that have had dealers have a hard time removing the hub bearings, on a lift with all the right tools.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadillac Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Don, I don't think that its the splined axle shaft that is holding it, although it might be a little bit, but you can tap that in with a brass rod and hammer, from what I have seen and experienced here, the hub bearing is frozen on the knuckle even though the three bolts are out, you think its stuck on the splined axle? I wonder if there are two types of frozen hubs, those stuck on the splined axle and those stuck on the knuckle? I will assume that his '99 is the same design as my '02. If that is the case, then the hub cannot be frozen to the knuckle. There is minimal gap around the hub and goes in and out of the knuckle easily. I know mine was so badly rusted that the hub and axle shaft had seized up. I have read others posts pointing to the same situation. Mainly on the right side. I am certain that if he follows my tips he will be successful in removing the hub. Don "Modern warriors saddle iron horses of chrome." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Hmm, if you have a picture of the 99/02 design, I'd love to see it, Thanks Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadillac Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Hmm, if you have a picture of the 99/02 design, I'd love to see it, Thanks Pretty sure that it is almost identical to the photos you posted. Only real difference being that the newer design the three mounting bolts slide through the knuckle from the inside, to threaded holes in the hub. So the wheel mounting plate on the hub doesn't have the access holes that the earlier models have. Don "Modern warriors saddle iron horses of chrome." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMDTS Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 The tool that works best for removing the hub is an impact air hammer it’s a basic panel cutter used in body shops. You use a rounded tip chisel bit on the end of the axle in the small indentation on the end of the axle shaft A few raps with that tool & the hub is off I have these tools in my garage. This is the only way I have done them .If you are doing the left hub you would turn the left wheel to the left so you don’t drive the axle into the transaxle the right side is the opposite turn the wheel to the right One hand on the hub one hand on the impact gun the hub falls rite off I know my tips are not much help unless you have the tools Good Luck Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiljak Posted September 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Thank you all for the replies. Don, I think your method will work and I wish I would have thought of that today. I should have mentioned that the hub is free from the knuckle and just stuck on the actual axle shaft. When I look at the axle shaft, I can see a fair amount of surface rust. After thinking through what you said, almost 100% positive that I can knock it loose with the sledge and ball ping. That actually seems like a safer all around method to use than the puller tool. Thanks alot and I'll post back the sucess story! James 1999 STS 65k 1995 STS 127k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadillac Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Thank you all for the replies. Don, I think your method will work and I wish I would have thought of that today. I should have mentioned that the hub is free from the knuckle and just stuck on the actual axle shaft. When I look at the axle shaft, I can see a fair amount of surface rust. After thinking through what you said, almost 100% positive that I can knock it loose with the sledge and ball ping. That actually seems like a safer all around method to use than the puller tool. Thanks alot and I'll post back the sucess story! No problem. Hopefully you post back with good news. Don "Modern warriors saddle iron horses of chrome." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Its funny, I haven't had any problems getting the axles out, they drop right back when I hit it with a brass bar and hammer, the problem has been getting the hub bearing out of the knuckle (my 91 was a problem).. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Thank you all for the replies. Don, I think your method will work and I wish I would have thought of that today. I should have mentioned that the hub is free from the knuckle and just stuck on the actual axle shaft. When I look at the axle shaft, I can see a fair amount of surface rust. After thinking through what you said, almost 100% positive that I can knock it loose with the sledge and ball ping. That actually seems like a safer all around method to use than the puller tool. Thanks alot and I'll post back the sucess story! Be extremely careful using this method - the ball peen hammer may shatter. Be sure to wear eye protection. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Just got back from Northern Wisc., so I am playing catch up. I have used the method that I gave Don with success more than once. I am relatively sure you will have success with it. You can use a 3/4" steel bar so there is less chance of shattering as it is not hardened. The nice thing about a ball peen hammer is that the assistant holding it has his (or her) hands well out of the way of a misguided strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadillac Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Just got back from Northern Wisc., so I am playing catch up. I have used the method that I gave Don with success more than once. I am relatively sure you will have success with it. You can use a 3/4" steel bar so there is less chance of shattering as it is not hardened. The nice thing about a ball peen hammer is that the assistant holding it has his (or her) hands well out of the way of a misguided strike. Assistant? You mean I was supposed to have somebody hold the ballpeen for me? LOL. I did it by myself. When I did mine I did not own a ballpeen hammer. So I went and bought a new one, along with a new 4 lb sledge. The new sledge had a longer handle which would give more striking power. I never have seen a steel hammer shatter. Not even sure it is possible with human force. Don "Modern warriors saddle iron horses of chrome." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 I have never seen it either, but being hardened it is theoretically possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 As KHE mentioned hardening causes steel to be brittle, when it breaks shards of steel break off like schrapnel and could loge in your eye. All hammers come with a sticker warning you of the danger. While I have never seen it either, I don't want to. When I saw KHE's comment, I thought, he is very observant and conscious of what is going on, he gave terrific advice I have a friend of mine who was a cabinet maker. He used a large shaper/router, the blade/head was about 4 inches across. One day he was running the shaper and it hit a knot in the wood, the hardened shaper head exploded in two pieces, with one piece flying by his ear and lodging in the ceiling beam 10 feet in the air deep enough that he could not pull it out. I don't need to tell you what could have happened. See this article http://www.grainnet.com/articles/Hand_Tool_Safety-8684.html Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschelle Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Mythbusters tried to shatter two hammers with more force than any of us could apply and were not able to do it. Just the same, the glasses are still better worn than not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 Ahh, suspicions confirmed. I smell lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 :lol: :lol: :lol: I still won't chance it, but I wear a belt and suspenders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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