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terkar333

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My boss just took her 97 devile in to the dealer because the engine overheated and went into limp home mode--(no air). They told her that the head bolts were pulling out. This was a new engine from GM installed in 2003 and now has 66,000 miles on it. The dealer told her, and I was there, that they took the car out ran it at 45mph then took it up a hill and floored it. They then watched the temp go up to 240, which according to them indicates that the head bolts are pulling out and the engine is trashed. They did not run any other diagnostics. Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks

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Uh, the engine is not trashed. It may need to be repaired but there are several things to check prior to ripping into the engine - Water pump tensioner for free movement, purge line to the surge tank must be flowing freely, etc.

While the symptoms indicate that it may be head gasket related, it needs to be properly diagnosed. For the head gaskets to go on a 4 yearold engine with only 66,000 miles on it is highly suspect.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Since it was a new engine, is it still under warranty? Also, I wouldn't necessarily believe the diagnosis despite it coming from a dealership mechanic. KHE is right--especially given the fact the mechanic failed to provide a specific reason why it must be a blown head gasket. Going up a hill at 45mph hardly suffices as ample evidence of a blown head gasket--it could be something as simple as a malfunctioning thermostat. Even if it's a head gasket problem, I wouldn't even think about a major repair job until I tried fixing it with one of the many gasket sealers on the market including Heal-A-Seal, which has been discussed in this Forum.

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The warranty ended 3 months ago, he stated that based on previous experience it looked like the headbolts were working themselves out of the block. He said that to really diagnose the problem it would cost over $900 and they would have to actually pull the heads.

Since it was a new engine, is it still under warranty? Also, I wouldn't necessarily believe the diagnosis despite it coming from a dealership mechanic. KHE is right--especially given the fact the mechanic failed to provide a specific reason why it must be a blown head gasket. Going up a hill at 45mph hardly suffices as ample evidence of a blown head gasket--it could be something a simple as a malfunctioning thermostat. Even if it's a head gasket problem, I wouldn't even think about a major repair job until I tried fixing it with one of the many gasket sealers on the market including Heal-A-Seal, which has been discussed in this Forum.
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The warranty ended 3 months ago, he stated that based on previous experience it looked like the headbolts were working themselves out of the block. He said that to really diagnose the problem it would cost over $900 and they would have to actually pull the heads.

It don't take $900 to diagnose a possible head gasket problem--Time to move on to an honest mechanic. :rolleyes:

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That is such bullsh*t, this could be a bad water pump belt or tensioner, a clogged purge line....allowing air in the system, a pressure breach...

What were the results of:

1) the cooling system pressure test?

2) the test they did on the coolant to determine if there are hydrocarbons in it?

3) the compression test?

4) did they look at the water pump belt?

5) is coolant flowing from the purge line?

Until they answer these questions, they have not fully diagnosed the problem

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Thanks for the input, she will be taking it to a regular mechanic nxt week, I'll post what they say.

That is such bullshit, this could be a bad water pump belt or tensioner, a clogged purge line....allowing air in the system, a pressure breach...

What were the results of:

1) the cooling system pressure test?

2) the test they did on the coolant to determine if there are hydrocarbons in it?

3) the compression test?

4) did they look at the water pump belt?

5) is coolant flowing from the purge line?

Until they answer these questions, they have not fully diagnosed the problem

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It does not cost $900 to do a cylinder pressure test. I would venture a guess that a mechanic would charge $100 maybe and that test is definitive.

Also, by '03 there have been several changes made to the Northstar, that while not completely curing the head gasket & thread pulling problem, have made the problem much less likely. I agree with everyone else, I'd get a second opinion. If it is a bad head gasket, being only 3 months out of warranty, I'd be on the phone with GM.

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It does not cost $900 to do a cylinder pressure test. I would venture a guess that a mechanic would charge $100 maybe and that test is definitive.

Also, by '03 there have been several changes made to the Northstar, that while not completely curing the head gasket & thread pulling problem, have made the problem much less likely. I agree with everyone else, I'd get a second opinion. If it is a bad head gasket, being only 3 months out of warranty, I'd be on the phone with GM.

Have it checked for combustion gases in the coolant. If the coolant is clean you don't have a head bolt/gasket problem.

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Since nearly all head gasket problems from pulled head bolts are traceable to red coolant over 5 years old, and the engine is 4 years old, I would put that last on my list. The guys here suggest that you have your coolant tested for combustion products, and if it passes that test you can eliminate head leakage. I'd do that first. The FSM has a whole checklist of things to look for when the engine overheats, and the head gasket is NOT at the top of the list, it's at the bottom.

Pull the codes:

http://www.caddyinfo.com/readingcodes.html

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My boss just took her 97 devile in to the dealer because the engine overheated and went into limp home mode--(no air). They told her that the head bolts were pulling out. This was a new engine from GM installed in 2003 and now has 66,000 miles on it. The dealer told her, and I was there, that they took the car out ran it at 45mph then took it up a hill and floored it. They then watched the temp go up to 240, which according to them indicates that the head bolts are pulling out and the engine is trashed. They did not run any other diagnostics. Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks

I would think that running at 240 hardly says anything about failed headgasket. The air conditioner does not kick off until about 259. It could be just a stuck thermostat. Keep us informed of your results.

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Before she goes to another mechanic get an exhaust gas check at a radiator repair shop. They are faster and cheaper than a mechanic.

If that's positive then it probably is HG's. It may be reasonable to have them replaced. Depends on what she thinks car is worth.

The blocks changed in 2000. A 2000+ block is not a direct replacement for a 1999 down block. She may have gotten a new engine but it was most likely an older engine that was still available.

I am not impressed with the diagnostics...LACK OF...they didn't do.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Seems we hear this type report a lot lately. The dealers just assume that any car that overheats has pulled headbolts I guess. That is NOT what the factory diagnostics suggest they investigate first.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

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