kcd1184 Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Purchased AC wires, plugs, and fuel filter. Installing Saturday. I use the Helms manuals, but does anyone have an extra bit of advice for any of the three proceedures? Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCat83 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Purchased AC wires, plugs, and fuel filter. Installing Saturday. I use the Helms manuals, but does anyone have an extra bit of advice for any of the three proceedures? Kent Gap your plugs and use a bit of anti-sieze on the threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Replacing the wires and plugs will require that the coils be removed and the rear ones are hard to reach. If you are going to be doing DIY work you definitely should get the factory shop manuals. They are sold by Helm, Inc. and can be found used on eBay and elsewhere. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Kent, the Guru always said not to use anti-seize. The plugs have a coating on them to prevent galvanic action. It can cause carbon tracking if not used VERY sparingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Kent, the Guru always said not to use anti-seize. The plugs have a coating on them to prevent galvanic action. It can cause carbon tracking if not used VERY sparingly. Ditto, the plugs are coated, don't take the chance, there it no need, the overkill puts you at risk of fouling your plugs Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCat83 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Kent, the Guru always said not to use anti-seize. The plugs have a coating on them to prevent galvanic action. It can cause carbon tracking if not used VERY sparingly. Ditto, the plugs are coated, don't take the chance, there it no need, the overkill puts you at risk of fouling your plugs The AC Delco plugs I bought were dry and after 6500 miles no problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Explain dry? The OEM spark plugs for the Northstar have nickel plated threads on the shell to minimize the chances of "galvanic corrosion" between the dissimilar metals causing a problem. You can not see the coating Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Yeah, maybe I should have been a little clearer with "coating". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCat83 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Explain dry? The OEM spark plugs for the Northstar have nickel plated threads on the shell to minimize the chances of "galvanic corrosion" between the dissimilar metals causing a problem. You can not see the coating Dry nickel plate. 6500 miles and they're fine. Are we splitting hairs here? I think all of the spark plugs I've used over the past 38 years have been dry nickel plate. And the nickel plate breaks down over the years and miles of use. I've had spark plugs in both aluminum and cast iron heads that were a b!tch to get out and some in aluminum heads have taken the threads out with them. Always had that happen with dry nickel plate, never had it happen with dry nickel plate and never sieze. And that never sieze will surely continue to prevent galvanic corrosion after the nickel plate oxidizes. So "a little dab'll do ya". Never sieze for me until something better comes along... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Listen splitting hairs or NOT.... I am an old timer much like it appears you are. No doubt you have installed R44 and R45 and R45s plugs over the years and YES in deedy, I used a dab of anti-seize. Keep in mind that in those days, we tightened them by hand and no one I knew actually torqued them. They were also in a cast iron head. My strong opinion comes from the guru who is a powertrain engineer that was part of a team the designed the Northstar. When he says NOT to use anti-seize I stand up and I FN listen, PERIOD. He stated that there is a coating that was developed FOR the aluminum head NS to stop seizing. He said that using anti-seize would act as lube and cause you to over torque the plug, and that is a problem because before you know it you have screwed the threads. In addition, he noted that if not used carefully, it could foul the plugs. I will say this however, there is a statement in SI that CAUTIONS against doing what you did. You implied that you removed them at 6500 miles, am I right? If you did remove the plugs you have NOW messed with the factory coating or more clearly, disturbed it and rendered it useless. They advise NOT to remove plugs for periodic cleaning gapping etc. due to disturbing the coating and thereby rendering it useless. So in your case its probably good that you used it, I hope you didn't over torque your plugs however as a result. I will post the statement when I get some time. Its a shame that the guru is still not around. He was a nice guy, but he had a way of disputing dis-information that was second to none. All I know is that he advised against the anti-seize and I ceased using it. I believe that the guru was so knowledgeable that I was in awe of him. I have owned 50's, 60's and 70's Caddies and I needed to re-learn everything. The guru never made fun of anyone. He just spewed reasons and facts. When he got done, most of the time I felt stomped, even though he never intended that. I felt stomped because, I had such a strong opinion about something and it was based on history, and it was wrong. Everything has changed, and I needed to re-learn everything. It was a humbling experience for me, but I learned. He was an amazing guy. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 What humbled me was reading through the shop manual when it came, a few weeks after I got the car. I didn't discover Caddyinfo until I did a web search on "Northstar oil burning." For the first year here, I mostly lurked, and the guru was already long gone. Although having the guru would be nice, I never, ever mentioned my employer in online posts. This goes back to the Compuserve days, long before the Internet. The reason is that it is possible for some to take your posts as representing your employer's opinions, statements, recommendations, or other sanctioned communications if you acknowledge that you are employed by them. This means that legal liability for the consequences of these posts accrues to the employer. As such your employer has a right to see and approve any such communications that may be taken as theirs. They already have channels for that -- the publicity department and the press release approval process. Thus casual posts on boards just aren't possible in this litigious age. I'm quite surprised that the guru was allowed to post once his employment became known here. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Luckily we benefited from him being here Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCat83 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I put 'em in, torqued 'em to spec and haven't touched them. My car runs fine. And I won't touch them until it's time to change them again - 191,549 miles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 What humbled me was reading through the shop manual when it came, a few weeks after I got the car. I didn't discover Caddyinfo until I did a web search on "Northstar oil burning." For the first year here, I mostly lurked, and the guru was already long gone. Although having the guru would be nice, I never, ever mentioned my employer in online posts. This goes back to the Compuserve days, long before the Internet. The reason is that it is possible for some to take your posts as representing your employer's opinions, statements, recommendations, or other sanctioned communications if you acknowledge that you are employed by them. This means that legal liability for the consequences of these posts accrues to the employer. As such your employer has a right to see and approve any such communications that may be taken as theirs. They already have channels for that -- the publicity department and the press release approval process. Thus casual posts on boards just aren't possible in this litigious age. I'm quite surprised that the guru was allowed to post once his employment became known here. Unfortunately you have not seen many of his posts. Whether he exposed who he worked for or not, when he spoke it was immediately obvious that he was a force that knew a heck of a lot about these engines. It was hard for him to hide. If he came back and tried to be incognito eventually you would say, who that heck is that guy, he is amazing. What is the saying, don't mind me, I'm just the 800 pound gorilla in the room? That was the guru, there was no hiding himself... I doubt it would be easy for him to dumb himself down either, it would be like asking Michael Jordan play a pickup game and not to be dominant. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 BodybyFisher -- Yeah, it's too band that his employment became known. That wasn't necessary for his credibility, and the few of his posts that I have seen quoted do bear that out. In a forum with heavy DIY emphasis, he would always be the gorilla in the living room. The OLI that he helped develop is apparently on all GM cars now (certainly on my wife's 1999 Pontiac Grand Am 3.4 l HO), and the Nortstar has been seen in a Buick and even a Pontiac. BigCat83 -- I notice that you changed your plugs at 91,549 miles. It's just me, but I like 70,000 miles or so on these plugs to keep like-new performance. Think about it when you have 161,549 miles. I think that one good way to look at the spark plug issue is to have a fresh set ready to put in whenever you remove the spark plugs. If you put back used spark plugs, you have the lubrication/overtorque issue and the risk of anti-seize causing problems. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Unfortunately, it usually wasn't the guru that exposed himself, it was the members, some of which seeked him out loudly and some of which badgered and berated him publically for his opinions. When you are that knowledgeable you become a lightening rod for all things both good and bad. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Unfortunately, it usually wasn't the guru that exposed himself, it was the members, some of which seeked him out loudly and some of which badgered and berated him publically for his opinions. When you are that knowledgeable you become a lightening rod for all things both good and bad. I'm not surprised. RIP -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted July 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Didn't mean to get everybody wound up. You guys get side tracked too easy.(fun though) Is this going to be a Problem. I've done the alternator twice. Phenolic spacers.Brakes, brake lines (among many other projects). I'm just not comfortable with the N* " sparks". Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Won't be a problem at all Kent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Didn't mean to get everybody wound up. You guys get side tracked too easy.(fun though) Is this going to be a Problem. I've done the alternator twice. Phenolic spacers.Brakes, brake lines (among many other projects). I'm just not comfortable with the N* " sparks". Kent You are not kidding about getting side tracked. I had to go back to your first post to recall what this was about The trickiest thing you are going to do is the fuel filter, the fittings can be a challenge. Its pretty straight forward. Since you are replacing the wires, I will say its best to do one at a time, even though you probably know that. Doing one at a time, try to follow the same route the old wire took. You might mark the coils with cylinder numbers. If you look at the cam covers the cylinders are numbered. If it has the flex tubing over it, I use it again on the new wires. It can be brittle, so be gentle with it. If the multiple wires are in thick tubing, pay attention to which wires are in the tubing conduit. I plan to visit the scrap yard soon and pull some off a newer caddy, its great stuff, and its hard to find, the stuff you can buy in the auto stores melts. Don't assume the plugs are gapped check them, if they are dropped in shipping the gap can change. Don't use anti-sieze on the plug threads the plugs are treated at the factory assuming you buy AC Delco. Also don't use the dilectic (s) lube on the boots, the AC Delco ignition wires are impregnated with it. If you use it, you can cause carbon tracking. Use a torque wrench for the plugs and torque them to spec for your year. This is not a job that I rush, Good Luck Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted July 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Replacing the wires and plugs will require that the coils be removed and the rear ones are hard to reach. If you are going to be doing DIY work you definitely should get the factory shop manuals. They are sold by Helm, Inc. and can be found used on eBay and elsewhere. I am reading the Helm manual proceedures on replacing plugs and wires. It does not list removing the coil pack as a step in either one. Would you please explain. Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 As I recall, removing the coil packs on the NS makes it easier to reach the back bank of plugs. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd1184 Posted July 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 As I recall, removing the coil packs on the NS makes it easier to reach the back bank of plugs. Hey Bruce What is this 0diggs/dig it ??? Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Digg.com is an internet indexing site. The idea of this and similar sites is that when readers find info on the internet that is interesting/valuable, they DIGG it. This lets people look at information that they know other people found interesting. One of the reasons we care is that by DIGGing a post, you bring it to the attention of an audience outside of our Caddyinfo.com community. This may lead other Cadillac owners who have not found us yet to join us here and talk about Cadillacs. Check the Changes/Improvements forum for more notes: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showforum=6 Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Kent, Removing the ICM & coils will give you a little better access, but is not necessary. Don't believe I removed them on my '97. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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