Reducing the cost of headgasket replacement

[stswrx]

Thanks all for your help confirming my head gasket leak.

My plan when I bought this car was to see how much of the head gasket replacement I could do myself. There is a local shop I trust who will do the whole job, including Tserts for about $3500.

I have a shop manual, jack, stands, a spacious garage and no vehicle lift. What can I do myself to bring down the total cost of the repair? Pull the engine and just pay to have it serviced and Tserted?

Any other combinations of DIY and Farm it out that make sense? (leaning heavily on the posts of the folks who have gone before me)

For now the car is a toy (4th vehicle) but I hope to make it the wife's daily driver. The gas bill in her Suburban is murder.

Any other repairs/replacements I should plan to do at the same time?

Thanks!

[Ranger]

I think the hardest part is removing the drivetrain in a garage without a lift. Once that is out, the rest is doable if you are a decent DIY'er.

[BodybyFisher]

If you want to reduce the cost, do it yourself. We have many members there that have done it that should provide support.

While the engine is out check the following:

HVAC plastic cover for brittleness and cracks

Case half leaks

Oil pan leaks

Replace torque converter seal

[stswrx]

Any suggestions for places to buy reman engines? I've seen a couple in the $3000 range online, but have no idea how reputable they are. My car has the 4.6L "9" engine.

[Ranger]

Stay away from Custom Innovations in Madison Wisc.

[KHE]

Ranger is correct - the hardest part is pulling the engine. Once you have the engine out of the car, the hard part is done. Use plenty of ziplock bags to organize the parts - it makes reassembly much easier.

If your engine is leaking at the oil pan gasket or case half, while the engine is out, install the updated gaskets/seals as well as new crank seals. I did not do that on my car as the previous owner had it done - I could see the anerobic sealant at the case half. If it had not been done, I would have definitely installed new seals while the engine was out.

[zonie77]

You can do the whole job if you have some perseverance and technical skills. Use an engine hoist to raise the body and roll the cradle out from under it. Try to get a used timesert kit which you can resell when finished.

Check out this site for more info:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/north...lacement+part+1

[zonie77]

If the engine runs well, with the exception of overheating, I would highly recommend repairing it instead of replacing it.

An N* should go 250K with reasonable oil changes. The cyl walls will probably still have the honing pattern on them.

[kdaddy]

STSWRX,

If you are looking for a way to do it on the cheap I have a suggestion. First try products on the market. I know that sounds crazy but it worked in my caddy. Besides what do you have to lose but 20 bucks. If it does not work than you lost little to nothing. If it does work you saved THOUSANDS. I personally used the Product Bars Headgasket Repair. However I would suggest you use the K&W block sealer. Use the larger bottle not the small 10 oz bottle. The directions are simple but I have two things use should do in addition to the instructions. #1 remove the thermostat and replace with a new one AFTER the procedure is done. #2 Drive with the water/gasket repair solution for 1 week of normal driving. After that follow the rest of the directions regarding draining the solution and allowing it to cure for 24 hours. You mind as well give it a try if your going to fix it yourself anyways. The risk is too low not to try it. Besides if it does not work just go back to plan A.

Kyle

[stswrx]

2 questions

Reading the threads, I'm not clear on the advantages/disadvantages of pulling the engine out from above vs underneath.

It seems like taking it out from the bottom can be done in a few hours.

1)Is it a major challenge for a DIY'er using floor jacks and stands to put it back together?

Also, I had planned to send the engine out (not sure where yet) to have the Tserts installed, and any other cleaning/refurb.

2)Is this reasonable? Or is it going to cost almost as much as paying to have the whole job done?

The car is in fantastic cosmetic shape, hardly any rust, so I'm approaching this with the plan to keep the car for 10 years after the repair.

[zonie77]

2 questions

Reading the threads, I'm not clear on the advantages/disadvantages of pulling the engine out from above vs underneath.

It seems like taking it out from the bottom can be done in a few hours.

It was made to come out the bottom. There are some bolts that are VERY hard to get to to pull it out the top. If you drop the cradle you don't have to separate the engine/trans unless you have to do the case seal or oil pan.

1)Is it a major challenge for a DIY'er using floor jacks and stands to put it back together?

If you add an engine hoist it is not a major challenge. It is a long job though.

Also, I had planned to send the engine out (not sure where yet) to have the Tserts installed, and any other cleaning/refurb.

If you can drop the engine you can do the timeserts!!!!!!!

Did you look at the thread I linked???

2)Is this reasonable? Or is it going to cost almost as much as paying to have the whole job done?

There will be a $2000-3000 difference!

The car is in fantastic cosmetic shape, hardly any rust, so I'm approaching this with the plan to keep the car for 10 years after the repair.

[stswrx]

Zonie - I read the link you attached and am feeling a little more comfortable with the idea of taking the engine out from under the car. Couple of questions

1) How do you use the engine hoist to lift the body?

2) How high does the body have to be raised?

3) Did you leave the powertrain sitting on floor jacks while you worked on it?

4) Is reinstalling the powertrain just a matter of jacking it back up to the right height and making the connections?

[zonie77]

Zonie - I read the link you attached and am feeling a little more comfortable with the idea of taking the engine out from under the car. Couple of questions

1) How do you use the engine hoist to lift the body?

2) How high does the body have to be raised?

3) Did you leave the powertrain sitting on floor jacks while you worked on it?

4) Is reinstalling the powertrain just a matter of jacking it back up to the right height and making the connections?

1)Use a 4x4 under the radiator support. I used a tow strap wrapped around the 4x4 and rad support to lift. A chain would work as well.

2) Just high enough to roll the cradle out. Pretty high, but easy for an engine hoist.

3) You could but we set it on scrap pieces of 4x4. I had a lot of 4x4 scrap from a project. If you leave it on jacks lower them to save the jack seal.

4) Yes, except you are lowering the body down.

Be careful with the cradle as the tires don't support it with the struts disconnected. It won't tip or anything but you want to keep your hands and toes out of the way when u are moving it.

[Barry94]

It's been awhile since I checked in here.

Regarding head gaskets/timeserts, I did mine a few years ago with the engine in the car.

This is by no means the most popular method.

I thought I would mention it only as an alternative.

With a few tricks and contortions it can be done. It's a slower method, however

not too difficult.

I have a few notes if you do consider this method.

Barry

[zonie77]

Barry94, fill us in.

The timing cover looks like a real pain to get to and work on. How was timeserting the back cylinder? I would think it would be hard to work at an odd angle and timesert it properly. I decided dropping the cradle was far easier than working in those awkward positions and tight spaces.

Details please. Pics if you were able to take any.

[Barry94]

Barry94, fill us in.

The timing cover looks like a real pain to get to and work on. How was timeserting the back cylinder? I would think it would be hard to work at an odd angle and timesert it properly. I decided dropping the cradle was far easier than working in those awkward positions and tight spaces.

Details please. Pics if you were able to take any.

There were only a couple of tight spots to get at the bolts.

- The water crossover manifold on the drivers side. You need some short wrenches.

- The rear exhaust bolts. Crossover pipe and the down pipe to the cat.

The real trick to getting at the rear and front bolts is to remove the cooling fans and the upper "dog bones".

Then by loosening the cradle bolts in the front, (front pair, left & right, almost out) then the next pair not so much,

and so on to the rear. The cradle will "hang" down in the front and the engine will tilt forward by about 3 inches. Plenty of room to remove the head.

Head comes out with exhaust manifold attached.

Reverse the procedure on the cradle bolts to tip the engine to the rear to access the exhaust pipe and crossover bolts.

Once the rear head is removed, there is lots of room to work on the rear bolts.

I used a 3/8" air ratchet to drive the drill and tap in the rear.

I suspect a 90 degree drill would do as well.

The timing cover was not a problem at all. A little tight on some of the bolts , however not bad.

The engine is low enough that the balancer puller fits easily.

I only took a couple of pictures. I'll attempt to attach them.

Barry

[zonie77]

You were about 90% of the way to totally removing the cradle! It would have been so much easier then.

To each their own.

The way you did it is better than the people who have done it with the cradle tight to the body.