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I am hoping you guys are going to tell me that there no way that the parts that are MISSING from my oil level sensor can be sucked into my oil pump.... UGH... :o No wonder it has not worked... :lol:

OilLevelSensor.jpg

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1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

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Sit down before you look at this picture. I stepped back and said WTF am I doing?... :lol::lol::lol: My neighbor has been monitoring this, and he said, no way this car runs again..... won't he be surprised....

CrossoverJob032.jpg

This picture will turn your stomach..... actually its not as bad as it looks :lol::blink: Charlottesville, Virginia here I come...

CrossoverJob031.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Here is the crossover connection where I think it was leaking from, it has an ominous look to it... I do believe that brown stuff is evidence of the cooling supplement... VERY COOL.....

UpperLeftCoolantConnection.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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My neighbor has been monitoring this, and he said, no way this car runs again..... won't he be surprised....

I'm guessing he's a Ford owner. They're like that. :P

Regards,

Warren

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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My neighbor has been monitoring this, and he said, no way this car runs again..... won't he be surprised....

I'm guessing he's a Ford owner. They're like that. :P

Regards,

Warren

He is a 79 year old, mechanically inclined, eccentric, very independent man, that talks constantly. He is sort of a double edged sword for me, in many ways. While he sings your praises privately, if someone walks up, he looses it and says, Mike is about to junk his car, wait till you see what he DID to it... I am not sure if he is being a comedian or if he believes I trashed it..he is treating this like a novelty.. I will stop to take a break and he will say, did you give up yet? Stumped? He brings people around like they are on a tour to see some FREAK. I told him this morning, "If you show up on my driveway today I am going to dent your skull with a ball peen hammer, sell tickets down the street".... :lol: Needless to say, he came around, "I don't mean to bother you". I almost said, YOU ARE BOTHERING ME :lol: If he had a computer, I'd link him to this site, so he could watch from his house :lol: In the midst of all of this he brings me a lawn mower blade to sharpen... UGH....

He is going to go into cardiac arrest when he sees me drop the carriage and rip open the tranny, so this is just beginning :P

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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He is going to go into cardiac arrest when he sees me drop the carriage and rip open the tranny, so this is just beginning :P

Photos of the expected cardiac arrest would be nice . . . .

post-416-1180856783_thumb.jpg

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There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises

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He is going to go into cardiac arrest when he sees me drop the carriage and rip open the tranny, so this is just beginning :P

Photos of the expected cardiac arrest would be nice . . . .

No question about that! :ph34r: Here is the crossover before cleaning:

CrossoverJob040.jpg

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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My neighbor has been monitoring this, and he said, no way this car runs again..... won't he be surprised....

I'm guessing he's a Ford owner. They're like that. :P

Regards,

Warren

He is a 79 year old, mechanically inclined, eccentric, very independent man, that talks constantly. He is sort of a double edged sword for me, in many ways. While he sings your praises privately, if someone walks up, he looses it and says, Mike is about to junk his car, wait till you see what he DID to it... I am not sure if he is being a comedian or if he believes I trashed it..he is treating this like a novelty.. I will stop to take a break and he will say, did you give up yet? Stumped? He brings people around like they are on a tour to see some FREAK. I told him this morning, "If you show up on my driveway today I am going to dent your skull with a ball peen hammer, sell tickets down the street".... :lol: Needless to say, he came around, "I don't mean to bother you". I almost said, YOU ARE BOTHERING ME :lol: If he had a computer, I'd link him to this site, so he could watch from his house :lol: In the midst of all of this he brings me a lawn mower blade to sharpen... UGH....

He is going to go into cardiac arrest when he sees me drop the carriage and rip open the tranny, so this is just beginning :P

I doubt the old guy has any malicious intent - he probably has nothing better to do... It did take gall to show up with a lawnmower blade for you to sharpen... He's mechanically inclined but he can't sharpen a lawnmower blade?? :blink: The easiest way to get rid of him is to put him to work when he shows up. Seriously - have him clean parts and do other crappy jobs that you would rather not do... He will either help once or make up some excuse and then leave and probably won't show up until you're done with the car.

As far as the coolant pipes go, it looks like surface rust - nothing serious. Did you buy new ones? If not, just wire brush them and use some rust converter and paint the areas with some high temp. paint and reinstall them. The oil level sensor end is probably laying in the bottom of the oil pan. Not sure how it would have happened unless someone at one point removed it and caught the end on the hole in the pan.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Kevin, Hmmm, you bring up a good point with the oil level sensor. Since it wasn't working and I was getting a code, I assumed that it happened on its own. I don't remember putting a lot of pressure on it removing it myself. There are two parts, the cylinder and a disk the size of a dime, do you think either can be ingested or is there a screen on the oil intake?

Good idea, with giving my neighbor a job, believe it or not, I think he would enjoy being put to work, it might make things worse. And you are right he has no mal intent, its not often someone does what I am doing I am sure, so its a novelty to him :lol:

What did you think of my crossover gaskets?, think they were the source of my coolant smell and leak?. You think the brown stuff is the supplement?

I bought new coolant pipes after I looked up last week and saw the rust.., I think you are right, its surface rust and it probably wasn't leaking there...

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Is there supposed to be some kind of a float on the oil level sensor? Just curious how it senses the level unless it is at a point two quarts low in the pan. Was the original sensor metal at the hex fitting end? It looks like it in the photo.

The crossover gaskets definitely look like they were the source of the leak. Mine were a blue silicone and your old ones were orange. When I pulled mine apart, they were still like new but I replaced them anyway. What is the condition of the "freeze plug" that is in the block behind the waterpump crossover? If it looks rusted, it might be an excellent time to replace it. Mine was in good shape so I didn't mess with it and as long as the coolant has been properly maintained, your's is probably OK.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Is there supposed to be some kind of a float on the oil level sensor? Just curious how it senses the level unless it is at a point two quarts low in the pan. Was the original sensor metal at the hex fitting end? It looks like it in the photo.

The crossover gaskets definitely look like they were the source of the leak. Mine were a blue silicone and your old ones were orange. When I pulled mine apart, they were still like new but I replaced them anyway. What is the condition of the "freeze plug" that is in the block behind the waterpump crossover? If it looks rusted, it might be an excellent time to replace it. Mine was in good shape so I didn't mess with it and as long as the coolant has been properly maintained, your's is probably OK.

I am not sure what that cylinder does, it does not appear to be a float. Its not a temperature probe, as it reads the oil cold. I will look close at the sensor, maybe there are exposed filiments. That said, I don't know what the cylinderical piece is suppose to do. Yes the old one was metal at the hex end. By the way, the plug snaps in, there is no clip to disengage, that was tricky. It just snaps out..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_sensor

I saw the freezeout plug, I didn't look closely but will.. My coolant has been changed about 4 times since I own it at 50,000 miles due to different jobs I have done on it.. The coolant was bright orange. Thanks, I am taking today off, my hands are sore and we are getting company. I am not feeling it today...if you know what I mean... I need to order the inner throttle body gasket, gmotors sent the wrong gasket. I might as well order a new dog bone, new injector o-rings, and a new positive battery bolt while I am at it..

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Mike,

when my oil level sensor went bad, it looked the same as yours, the "loose" cylinder was missing. I think the end cap came loose and fell into the oil pan, followed by the cylinder, which in turn brought on the "check oil level" message on start up.

I did not think too much about these parts in the oil pan, and I'm driving my car like this for 70,000 mls now.

There usually is an intake screen on the oil pump, no problem with items that size.

Stefan

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Mike,

when my oil level sensor went bad, it looked the same as yours, the "loose" cylinder was missing. I think the end cap came loose and fell into the oil pan, followed by the cylinder, which in turn brought on the "check oil level" message on start up.

I did not think too much about these parts in the oil pan, and I'm driving my car like this for 70,000 mls now.

There usually is an intake screen on the oil pump, no problem with items that size.

Stefan

Thanks for that feedback Stefan! Mike

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I don't know if all GM oil level sensors are alike or not but I would think so. When I dropped the pan on my wifes Bonneville 3800, the sensor was a glass tube with some electrical circuitry inside. No floats. Never could figure out how it worked.

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I don't know if all GM oil level sensors are alike or not but I would think so. When I dropped the pan on my wifes Bonneville 3800, the sensor was a glass tube with some electrical circuitry inside. No floats. Never could figure out how it worked.

A photodetector inside of the glass tube?

The saddest thing in life is wasted talent

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Is there supposed to be some kind of a float on the oil level sensor? Just curious how it senses the level unless it is at a point two quarts low in the pan. Was the original sensor metal at the hex fitting end? It looks like it in the photo.

The crossover gaskets definitely look like they were the source of the leak. Mine were a blue silicone and your old ones were orange. When I pulled mine apart, they were still like new but I replaced them anyway. What is the condition of the "freeze plug" that is in the block behind the waterpump crossover? If it looks rusted, it might be an excellent time to replace it. Mine was in good shape so I didn't mess with it and as long as the coolant has been properly maintained, your's is probably OK.

I am not sure what that cylinder does, it does not appear to be a float. Its not a temperature probe, as it reads the oil cold. I will look close at the sensor, maybe there are exposed filiments. That said, I don't know what the cylinderical piece is suppose to do. Yes the old one was metal at the hex end. By the way, the plug snaps in, there is no clip to disengage, that was tricky. It just snaps out..

I saw the freezeout plug, I didn't look closely but will.. My coolant has been changed about 4 times since I own it at 50,000 miles due to different jobs I have done on it.. The coolant was bright orange. Thanks, I am taking today off, my hands are sore and we are getting company. I am not feeling it today...if you know what I mean... I need to order the inner throttle body gasket, gmotors sent the wrong gasket. I might as well order a new dog bone, new injector o-rings, and a new positive battery bolt while I am at it..

The oil level sensor must be positioned at a level that is 1-1/2 quarts down from full. When you install the new sensor, I would tighten it to "mechanic's feel" unless the instructions had a torque spec. as any torque spec in the shop manual is likely for the metal sensor. You don't want to break the new one. If you are going to replace your dogbone mounts, just buy them from Napa, Carquest or other reputable local chain. I replaced mine when I had the engine out because they were totally shot. GM wanted $80+ each for them and they included some sort of mounting bracket. I bought both at Napa for $25 or $30 for the pair. A year later, they are still fine.

The freeze plug on your car is most likely fine considering the frequent coolant changes the car had plus it is a DexCool car. My boss' son has a '95 Olds Aurora and the freeze plug rusted through. I helped hin change the water pump a few years ago. It took an impact wrench to remove the pump and the hose connection stampings had portions that were rotted away... The green coolant had a grey color - that was the most poorly maintained cooling system that I have EVER seen. It is a wonder the head gaskets haven't let go.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Is there supposed to be some kind of a float on the oil level sensor? Just curious how it senses the level unless it is at a point two quarts low in the pan. Was the original sensor metal at the hex fitting end? It looks like it in the photo.

The crossover gaskets definitely look like they were the source of the leak. Mine were a blue silicone and your old ones were orange. When I pulled mine apart, they were still like new but I replaced them anyway. What is the condition of the "freeze plug" that is in the block behind the waterpump crossover? If it looks rusted, it might be an excellent time to replace it. Mine was in good shape so I didn't mess with it and as long as the coolant has been properly maintained, your's is probably OK.

I am not sure what that cylinder does, it does not appear to be a float. Its not a temperature probe, as it reads the oil cold. I will look close at the sensor, maybe there are exposed filiments. That said, I don't know what the cylinderical piece is suppose to do. Yes the old one was metal at the hex end. By the way, the plug snaps in, there is no clip to disengage, that was tricky. It just snaps out..

I saw the freezeout plug, I didn't look closely but will.. My coolant has been changed about 4 times since I own it at 50,000 miles due to different jobs I have done on it.. The coolant was bright orange. Thanks, I am taking today off, my hands are sore and we are getting company. I am not feeling it today...if you know what I mean... I need to order the inner throttle body gasket, gmotors sent the wrong gasket. I might as well order a new dog bone, new injector o-rings, and a new positive battery bolt while I am at it..

The oil level sensor must be positioned at a level that is 1-1/2 quarts down from full. When you install the new sensor, I would tighten it to "mechanic's feel" unless the instructions had a torque spec. as any torque spec in the shop manual is likely for the metal sensor. You don't want to break the new one. If you are going to replace your dogbone mounts, just buy them from Napa, Carquest or other reputable local chain. I replaced mine when I had the engine out because they were totally shot. GM wanted $80+ each for them and they included some sort of mounting bracket. I bought both at Napa for $25 or $30 for the pair. A year later, they are still fine.

Kevin, I don't think there is any way to adjust the level sensor I think it just screws in. I took it off with an adjustable wrench, I will just snug it up till it seats, there is an o-ring...I can use Nylog on the o-ring right?

Rockauto has the torque struts (dog bones) for about $12 a side, I was reluctant to buy it since its much cheaper than OEM, but they are MUCH better than the ones I have on it now that are cracked...

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Mike,

I think there is a screen on the oil pump intake.

Thanks for confirming this

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Is there supposed to be some kind of a float on the oil level sensor? Just curious how it senses the level unless it is at a point two quarts low in the pan. Was the original sensor metal at the hex fitting end? It looks like it in the photo.

The crossover gaskets definitely look like they were the source of the leak. Mine were a blue silicone and your old ones were orange. When I pulled mine apart, they were still like new but I replaced them anyway. What is the condition of the "freeze plug" that is in the block behind the waterpump crossover? If it looks rusted, it might be an excellent time to replace it. Mine was in good shape so I didn't mess with it and as long as the coolant has been properly maintained, your's is probably OK.

I am not sure what that cylinder does, it does not appear to be a float. Its not a temperature probe, as it reads the oil cold. I will look close at the sensor, maybe there are exposed filiments. That said, I don't know what the cylinderical piece is suppose to do. Yes the old one was metal at the hex end. By the way, the plug snaps in, there is no clip to disengage, that was tricky. It just snaps out..

I saw the freezeout plug, I didn't look closely but will.. My coolant has been changed about 4 times since I own it at 50,000 miles due to different jobs I have done on it.. The coolant was bright orange. Thanks, I am taking today off, my hands are sore and we are getting company. I am not feeling it today...if you know what I mean... I need to order the inner throttle body gasket, gmotors sent the wrong gasket. I might as well order a new dog bone, new injector o-rings, and a new positive battery bolt while I am at it..

The oil level sensor must be positioned at a level that is 1-1/2 quarts down from full. When you install the new sensor, I would tighten it to "mechanic's feel" unless the instructions had a torque spec. as any torque spec in the shop manual is likely for the metal sensor. You don't want to break the new one. If you are going to replace your dogbone mounts, just buy them from Napa, Carquest or other reputable local chain. I replaced mine when I had the engine out because they were totally shot. GM wanted $80+ each for them and they included some sort of mounting bracket. I bought both at Napa for $25 or $30 for the pair. A year later, they are still fine.

Kevin, I don't think there is any way to adjust the level sensor I think it just screws in. I took it off with an adjustable wrench, I will just snug it up till it seats, there is an o-ring...I can use Nylog on the o-ring right?

Rockauto has the torque struts (dog bones) for about $12 a side, I was reluctant to buy it since its much cheaper than OEM, but they are MUCH better than the ones I have on it now that are cracked...

I wasn't talking about adjusting the sensor - I was speculating that its location in the pan was designed at a point 1-1/2 quarts from full. Just trying to figure out how it works. :lol: I was also concerned if there was a torque spec. for the original sensor, it would be too large for the plastic sensor and if torqued to the metal spec, it would be damagd. I wouldn't use any Nylog on the o-ring as it is not a high pressure connection like in an air conditioning system. Just apply a light film of engine oil to it when you install it.

I bought the aftermarket dogbones because I thought the OEM dogbones were such a ripoff. The aftermarket dogbones look exactly line the OEM versions and are reasonably priced. The rubber in the original dogbones fell apart when I removed them so I had to replace them.

Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Engine Oil Low message

The oil level switch is a magnetic reed float style switch which is closed with oil level full and open when oil level is low. The PCM monitors the oil level switch to determine if the oil is LOW or OK. When the test conditions have been met the PCM will monitor the oil level switch input. If a low oil level is indicated the PCM will send a serial data message to the IPC. The IPC will then indicate the oil level is low. If the test conditions have not been met then the PCM ignores the oil level switch input and oil level OK is indicated to the IPC. The test conditions include a timer and a coolant temeperature value. The test conditions are needed to ensure the engine has been OFF long enough for oil to drain back into the oil pan.

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Kevin, I understand what you are saying now, good thinking about the steel sensor vs. the fiber plastic sensor and the required torque, I will just snug it up, good thinking.

I will buy the aftermarket dog bones, I think I get a thump when I press the gas at highway speed because mine are loose.

I am off this job till Friday. I need to move the AC Compressor and ABS unit off the carriage, disconnect the steering shaft and cut the heat shield on the aft cat O2 sensor. Then break the RF control arm and remove the strut assembly from the LF. Once that is done, I should be able to drop the carriage and get to the reason why I started all of this.... UGH....

I think I am going to have my alternator rebuilt while its out, it will cost about $155 if its the 140 watt unit. At 96,000 miles, since its out, its probably a smart thing to do..

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Wow Mike! Looks like you're having fun! :blink: Glad to see you're getting it fixed though...I'm sure that's been really heavy on your mind. I wish I could be there to give you a hand. You'll find out who your true friends are...kind of like moving, if you know what I mean. <_< If you need any tools, please ask if I have it before you run out and buy it.

Just curious, before tearing into it, did you ever test your electrical connector to your tranny after cleaning it up with contact cleaner? Was it not the connector causing your ISS Speed Sensor problem? I read that you deducted that your crossover was leaking on that connection.

Looks like you're doing it RIGHT though! Wouldn't expect YOU to do it any other way. You da man!

Ok all you east coasters, get over there and give Mike a hand this weekend! ;)

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Engine Oil Low message

The oil level switch is a magnetic reed float style switch which is closed with oil level full and open when oil level is low. The PCM monitors the oil level switch to determine if the oil is LOW or OK. When the test conditions have been met the PCM will monitor the oil level switch input. If a low oil level is indicated the PCM will send a serial data message to the IPC. The IPC will then indicate the oil level is low. If the test conditions have not been met then the PCM ignores the oil level switch input and oil level OK is indicated to the IPC. The test conditions include a timer and a coolant temeperature value. The test conditions are needed to ensure the engine has been OFF long enough for oil to drain back into the oil pan.

Thanks for that description of the oil level sensor

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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>>> If he had a computer, I'd link him to this site, so he could watch from his house

Mike - Now There's An Idea - how about linking a live webcam up so we can watch all this !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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