Service Engine Soon light!

[Rickm6]

My Service Engine Soon light came on last week...just pulled the codes today:

DIM B 1324 (History)

IPC B1983 (History)

PCM P0420 (Current)

I cleared the codes and received a IPC Prom ID 8087

Can anyone please decipher this for me and tell what it means or is referring to? Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

Rick

[Ranger]

Decipher codes here

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/dtcobd2.html

[JimD]

My Service Engine Soon light came on last week...just pulled the codes today:

....

PCM P0420 (Current)

This is why the SES light is on; cat. con. low efficiency. Several easy to fix possible causes. High sulphur fuel will trigger this DTC; try another brand of fuel. Converter is not operating hot enough; drive the car far enough / long enough to heat soak the converter. Damaged O2 sensors and / or wiring; inspect and repair as indicated.

Of course it might be a damaged or failed converter. Depending on your cars in-service date, your converter might still be under warranty; have a GM dealer look up that information for you.

I cleared the codes and received a IPC Prom ID 8087

The OBD test sequence was simply offering the chip IDs on your car. The code retrieval operation was complete.

[Rickm6]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help.

This isn't the first time its returned codes regarding the converter, I probably shouldn't be clearing the codes. I've got 67K miles on the car. Anyone know how long the warranty is on the converter in California? Seems to me its set by government, 75K or 100K? I've got a Corsa exhaust on the thing...my guess is they'd deny the claim because I've modified the thing anyway.

Rick

My Service Engine Soon light came on last week...just pulled the codes today:

....

PCM P0420 (Current)

This is why the SES light is on; cat. con. low efficiency. Several easy to fix possible causes. High sulphur fuel will trigger this DTC; try another brand of fuel. Converter is not operating hot enough; drive the car far enough / long enough to heat soak the converter. Damaged O2 sensors and / or wiring; inspect and repair as indicated.

Of course it might be a damaged or failed converter. Depending on your cars in-service date, your converter might still be under warranty; have a GM dealer look up that information for you.

I cleared the codes and received a IPC Prom ID 8087

The OBD test sequence was simply offering the chip IDs on your car. The code retrieval operation was complete.

[kev2]

you are correct Convertr warranty is 80k ... and lala land may be longer...worth checking with CARB.

The code can be a result of many things not a good idea to change converter before seeing 02 readings...a bad 02 sensor, wiring, as mentioned get it hot ...long trip

GM will not deny warranty if the part meats or excedes OEM specs... got to watch snakeoil aftermarket parts claiming performance gains..................Any other modifications??

[Rickm6]

you are correct Convertr warranty is 80k ... and lala land may be longer...worth checking with CARB.

The code can be a result of many things not a good idea to change converter before seeing 02 readings...a bad 02 sensor, wiring, as mentioned get it hot ...long trip

GM will not deny warranty if the part meats or excedes OEM specs... got to watch snakeoil aftermarket parts claiming performance gains..................Any other modifications??

Only the K and N filter and Eibach springs.

By the way, I'm here to tell you that the Corsa exhaust made an immediate increase in top end pull. I could feel it from the first drive. Nothing noticeable on the low end but feels great upper mid to top end. Sounds awesome too.

I came from a sports car background so the lack of aggressive exhaust sound made me feel 15 years older. I look forward to driving the car almost for the sound alone now. The exhaust note and stiffer springs certainly aren't for everyone, but I love it.

Thanks for the info, if the converter turns out to be the culprit at least I have a shot at warranty.

[BodybyFisher]

you are correct Convertr warranty is 80k ... and lala land may be longer...worth checking with CARB.

The code can be a result of many things not a good idea to change converter before seeing 02 readings...a bad 02 sensor, wiring, as mentioned get it hot ...long trip

GM will not deny warranty if the part meats or excedes OEM specs... got to watch snakeoil aftermarket parts claiming performance gains..................Any other modifications??

Only the K and N filter and Eibach springs.

By the way, I'm here to tell you that the Corsa exhaust made an immediate increase in top end pull. I could feel it from the first drive. Nothing noticeable on the low end but feels great upper mid to top end. Sounds awesome too.

I came from a sports car background so the lack of aggressive exhaust sound made me feel 15 years older. I look forward to driving the car almost for the sound alone now. The exhaust note and stiffer springs certainly aren't for everyone, but I love it.

Thanks for the info, if the converter turns out to be the culprit at least I have a shot at warranty.

Post some photos if you would!

[kev2]

Remove the POS K&N filter BEFORE you apporach GM for warranty consideration......

This is a very problematic product....one of the very few aftermarket goodies I have seen addressed in a TSB, for drivability problems and warranty exclussion.

save yourself the confrontation remove it.

[Rickm6]

Remove the POS K&N filter BEFORE you apporach GM for warranty consideration......

This is a very problematic product....one of the very few aftermarket goodies I have seen addressed in a TSB, for drivability problems and warranty exclussion.

save yourself the confrontation remove it.

"A very problematic product..."

WOW! I've installed a K and N filter on every vehicle I've owned for the past 25 years and been nothing but happy with all of them...from motorcycles to motorhomes. In fact I tend to recommend the product to anyone looking to go with one of their many clones made by others that don't do the exhaustive testing that K&N does. Can I ask what types of problems, or TSB's, you've seen with K&N filters?

Thanks,

Rick

[BodybyFisher]

Two main things:

1) They FILTER TERRIBLE, they allow way too much dirt to enter the engine, its proved, I or someone will provide the thread,

2) Oil it wrong and you contaminate the MAF sensor. There was a CTS-V in Florida that had its MAF sensor contaminated contributing to a LEAN condition and he blew his engine..... (he also removed the rev limiter also).....

There is NO reason to use a K&N there is NO good benefit to using it, if anything you allow more dirt...

We will provide the link to the testing for all of you K&N lovers so you can see for yourself.

[Rickm6]

Post some photos if you would!

Well...I would but after trying to upload a single photo that is 140KB in size I keep getting this message:

THE FOLLOWING ERROR(S) WERE FOUND

The total filespace required to upload all the attached files is greater than your per post or global limit. Please reduce the number of attachments or the size of the attachments.

Any words of wisdom?

[BodybyFisher]

Donation of $20/year to help support Caddyinfo.com. Become a Supporter on the forum, access Contributor/Subscriber forums and upload 100k/photo instead of 64k/photo.

This should just about cover the K&N issue:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...&hl=K&N

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm

[Rickm6]

Two main things:

1) They FILTER TERRIBLE, they allow way too much dirt to enter the engine, its proved, I or someone will provide the thread,

2) Oil it wrong and you contaminate the MAF sensor. There was a CTS-V in Florida that had its MAF sensor contaminated contributing to a LEAN condition and he blew his engine..... (he also removed the rev limiter also).....

There is NO reason to use a K&N there is NO good benefit to using it, if anything you allow more dirt...

We will provide the link to the testing for all of you K&N lovers so you can see for yourself.

Fisher,

Thank you, if someone can find the link I'd like to read it.

I will say that my personal experience with K&N filters includes 3 cars with more than 200,000 miles with a K&N Filter on the original motors (a Nissan 260Z, a Nissan 300ZX, which I still have, and an Acura Integra). All ran great and in fact, had far less problems in those 200K miles than I've had with my STS that only has 65,000 miles.

I wouldn't be surprised that K&N filters let more dirt into an engine than a paper filter, K&N markets their product as a performance product and states that in most cases you will see a 1 - 4 horsepower increase with use. Personally I thought that the horsepower increase had to come from a higher flow rate which would be a trade off on filtration. Now if that tradeoff is too big, I might change my mind on K&N. Although, again, I've had great luck with K&N for years but really would like to read the article you have.

As far as oiling a filter goes, if you don't follow directions I could see where you could have problems. Too much oil could be a disaster. I've removed my filter after driving 10 miles with a freshly oiled filter and never seen any traces of oil in my intake. Again, following directions would go along way here.

I did take a look at K&N's website and they do state that they are aware that some dealers/manufacturers have denied warranty claims because of their product but state that they believe that to be illegal and state that they will help any consumer who has been denied warranty coverage. In fact they will pay for any costs as a result of denial of warranty by the manufacturer.

This is from their site:

"K&N warrants that a properly installed and maintained K&N product will not cause harm to any engine component and will not result in a warranty denial. We will promptly reimburse the consumer for the cost of the repair if a dealership denies warranty coverage as a result of a K&N product. In order to receive reimbursement, a consumer must provide the following:

A written statement or repair order from the dealership in which the dealership blames the problem or warranty denial on a K&N product.

A written request to the dealership to send the broken part directly to K&N at K&N’s expense. We will need the evidence.

Your cooperation in helping us pursue our claim for reimbursement from the dealership.

K&N will then contact the dealership and insist they present evidence to support their allegation or reimburse K&N for the cost of the repair. We strive to exceed consumer expectations."

[Ranger]

I wouldn't be surprised that K&N filters let more dirt into an engine than a paper filter, K&N markets their product as a performance product and states that in most cases you will see a 1 - 4 horsepower increase with use. Personally I thought that the horsepower increase had to come from a higher flow rate which would be a trade off on filtration.

A paper filter is not restrictive an will flow all the air the Northstar can swallow at WOT. 1-4 HP? How would you know unless you put it on a dyno? Seat of the pants dyno is no where near that accurate.

[Bruce Nunnally]

I use a performance CAI on my CTS and have been happy with it; it also tested as faster on than the stock system, see: http://www.caddyinfo.com/2005CTScorsavolant.htm

However, in my tests with a northstar in my 96 STS, performance filters did not test as faster.

Please see the results here:

http://www.caddyinfo.com/airboxvscone.htm

and here:

http://www.caddyinfo.com/airfilterstudy2.htm

[Rickm6]

Donation of $20/year to help support Caddyinfo.com. Become a Supporter on the forum, access Contributor/Subscriber forums and upload 100k/photo instead of 64k/photo.

This should just about cover the K&N issue:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...&hl=K&N

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm

Fisher,

Thanks for the photo explanation and links.

I did read the articles and found them very interesting but personally didn't find anything shocking that would make me stop using K&N filters or anything that shows K&N filters to be a "POS" as Kev said earlier. Aftermarket products are a matter of choice and preference in my opinion and as I said early on in this thread I realize that my choice of exhaust and lowering springs wouldn't be the choice most STS owners would make.

That said, I probably will take the K&N filter out before taking it to the dealer for diagnosis thanks to the information I've received here.

I always say CYA!

Thanks for the info guys!

[BodybyFisher]

Fisher,

Thank you, if someone can find the link I'd like to read it.

This should just about cover the K&N issue:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...&hl=K&N

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest2.htm

[Rickm6]

I wouldn't be surprised that K&N filters let more dirt into an engine than a paper filter, K&N markets their product as a performance product and states that in most cases you will see a 1 - 4 horsepower increase with use. Personally I thought that the horsepower increase had to come from a higher flow rate which would be a trade off on filtration.

A paper filter is not restrictive an will flow all the air the Northstar can swallow at WOT. 1-4 HP? How would you know unless you put it on a dyno? Seat of the pants dyno is no where near that accurate.

Ranger,

I took that horsepower info from the K&N website.

[Ranger]

I figured that. Just pointing out their marketing hype that is rather useless IMHO.

[BodybyFisher]

I wouldn't be surprised that K&N filters let more dirt into an engine than a paper filter, K&N markets their product as a performance product and states that in most cases you will see a 1 - 4 horsepower increase with use. Personally I thought that the horsepower increase had to come from a higher flow rate which would be a trade off on filtration.

A paper filter is not restrictive an will flow all the air the Northstar can swallow at WOT. 1-4 HP? How would you know unless you put it on a dyno? Seat of the pants dyno is no where near that accurate.

Ranger,

I took that horsepower info from the K&N website.

If you check the links that I gave you above, the third one does flow tests and they make this statement:

So what do these results mean? For one, there is very little pressure drop across any air filter, and the difference between the best (K&N) and worst (paper) is very small. Yes as total power output increases, air flow increases, and differential pressure would also increase. So a K&N probably does yield some power on higher output race motors where every last ounce of power must be squeezed out. On lower powered street cars, it is probably not much of an improvement over paper. Basically, an air filter is first and foremost a filter, and should be chosen for it's filtration ability.

Feel free to examine the links Bruce and I provided above.

[Rickm6]

I wouldn't be surprised that K&N filters let more dirt into an engine than a paper filter, K&N markets their product as a performance product and states that in most cases you will see a 1 - 4 horsepower increase with use. Personally I thought that the horsepower increase had to come from a higher flow rate which would be a trade off on filtration.

A paper filter is not restrictive an will flow all the air the Northstar can swallow at WOT. 1-4 HP? How would you know unless you put it on a dyno? Seat of the pants dyno is no where near that accurate.

Ranger,

I took that horsepower info from the K&N website.

If you check the links that I gave you above, the third one does flow tests and they make this statement:

So what do these results mean? For one, there is very little pressure drop across any air filter, and the difference between the best (K&N) and worst (paper) is very small. Yes as total power output increases, air flow increases, and differential pressure would also increase. So a K&N probably does yield some power on higher output race motors where every last ounce of power must be squeezed out. On lower powered street cars, it is probably not much of an improvement over paper. Basically, an air filter is first and foremost a filter, and should be chosen for it's filtration ability.

Feel free to examine the links Bruce and I provided above.

Fisher,

I read the links and understand that there may be very little difference in these tests. All I'm saying is that I've had a good experience with K&N filters for hundreds of thousands of miles. I never claimed that there was a huge horsepower advantage. On the other hand I didn't see anything that, in my opinion, stated that the filters were a POS, unloaded oil into the engine or shouldn't be used because they filter that poorly. In fact, Bob, the tester, said that he may use a performance filter such as the K&N again in the future. Just like buying a certain make of car or drinking a brand of soda, its personal preference (and he stated just that in the article, "Really, it is up to each individual to decide.") .

[BodybyFisher]

An old sage used to say this:

You are free to use aftermarket parts and components but realize that when you buy an AC DELCO part, the factory does the testing and validation, when you buy an aftermarket part YOU are doing the testing and validation. This really comes into play with ignition wires, plugs, alternators, etc..

If you have had good success terrific. For me, if I am going to suck more dirt for a minimal change in power or performance I would rather not suck dirt.. I didnt say they were POS's, I just said they suck more dirt... BillK likes K&N also.. we have a few here who like sucking dirt ..

This is why AMD is in business, ME?, I am an INTEL guy...

[Rickm6]

An old sage used to say this:

You are free to use aftermarket parts and components but realize that when you buy an AC DELCO part, the factory does the testing and validation, when you buy an aftermarket part YOU are doing the testing and validation. This really comes into play with ignition wires, plugs, alternators, etc..

If you have had good success terrific. For me, if I am going to suck more dirt for a minimal change in power or performance I would rather not suck dirt.. I didnt say they were POS's, I just said they suck more dirt... BillK likes K&N also.. we have a few here who like sucking dirt ..

This is why AMD is in business, ME?, I am an INTEL guy...

Fisher,

Are you trying to say I suck? LOL

[BodybyFisher]

Na..... you don't mind your car sucking in more dirt for an added 4 horsepower....

The way I look at it is, we have a 279 cu in engine putting out 275 and 300 HP, which is quite amazing already.. Not bad since the 74 Eldorado I had with its 500 cu in engine put out 210 HP...and got 12 MPG