z10kl Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Can I replace the front head gasket in the car on a 99 sts? The 10 timeserts all snapped when In broke them loose. They have been in for 50k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonie77 Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 They snapped how? Came out? Broke? Pulled out the metal? Did you do the HG's yourself? It is possible to do the front in the car but you still have access problems with the balancer/front cover, the exhaust manifold, and the coolant crossover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCat83 Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 After just having done this job myself...my advice is to put either a good used motor in the car or a reman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 You can do the job in with the engine in the car but it is much more difficult to access the fasteners. Also, removing the water pump crossover casting with the engine in the car is a SOB....If the engine had Timeserts in it already, you will need to use Bigserts this time around. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z10kl Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 If the timeserts snapped when I broke them loose does that mean they held from the initial repair? I wouldn't think you would have to repair the block every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 The Timesert is supposed to be a one time repair. Once done you should be able to remove the heads all you want. Define "snapped". There is a thread sealer like Loctite applied to the head bolt threads. They may "snap" when you break them loose. Is that the "snap" you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z10kl Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Yes I would think it could be from loctite breaking loose. I don't know how to describe it other than when I had the breaker bar and socket on the bolt it would be tight and not move then it would break loose and make a snap or pop just when it broke and then just turn like normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Is the timesert still in the block? Did the head bolt snap? You might be OK...I think you just broke the bond that takes place. I do NOT believe that the head bolts themselves get locktite on them. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Mike, I thought they come with some sort of thread locker on them similar to Loctite. From z10kl's description, I think he simply broke the bond and all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCat83 Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Mike, I thought they come with some sort of thread locker on them similar to Loktite. From z10kl's description, I think he simply broke the bond and all is well. The tool kit provides Red Locktite. I would tink you would have to very carefully unscrew the headbolts with the inserts from the block to avoid problems and then reinstall new inserts... Time for a reman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Mike, I thought they come with some sort of thread locker on them similar to Loctite. From z10kl's description, I think he simply broke the bond and all is well. Ranger and BigCat, the RED loctite is for the TIMESERT to the BLOCK not for the head bolts to the timesert... The head bolts themselves do not get loctites, only the timesert to the block am I correct about that? Yes I think he broke the bond, and if that is the case, if the timeserts are still in place he can just install a new headgasket... However I would have the head trued up or planed to make sure its flat... Why in the H would he need head gaskets with a TIMESERTED block in only 50K? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z10kl Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Mike, I thought they come with some sort of thread locker on them similar to Loctite. From z10kl's description, I think he simply broke the bond and all is well. Ranger and BigCat, the RED loctite is for the TIMESERT to the BLOCK not for the head bolts to the timesert... The head bolts themselves do not get loctites, only the timesert to the block am I correct about that? Yes I think he broke the bond, and if that is the case, if the timeserts are still in place he can just install a new headgasket... However I would have the head trued up or planed to make sure its flat... Why in the H would he need head gaskets with a TIMESERTED block in only 50K? I would like to know that also. Nice car , never ran hot. I put about 25k on it in 2 and a half years. The initial repair was done a =t a Caddy dealer 25k before I got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Mike, I swear I remember it being said that you cannot reuse the old bolts and the reason is that they come with some type of a thread sealer on them. Not sure about the serts. I know that they get swagged in the final phase of installation, but I don't recall a thread locker on them. One of the hall of famers will chime in I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonie77 Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 The factory head bolts do come with a loctite type sealant on them. They are not TTY. It is the sealant that mandates new bolts. Z10kl, Many head bolts give a snapping sound when they break loose. Is this what you are baseing the timeserts failing on??? Have you visually inspected the timeserts yet? The timeserts should be fine if the bolts came out of the block without a problem. If the timesert came loose you wouldn't be able to remove the bolt from the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCat83 Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 "TIMESERT to the BLOCK " only. I understand this. The headbolts are use once only etc etc etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hold off on junking out the engine..... Sounds like the Timeserts are fine. It is normal to hear a "crack" or a "pop" sound when loosening the head bolts. This is what you want to hear as that means the insert is sound. Make sure all 10 bolts pop loose in that manner. Try torquing the head bolts to the initial torque plus the angle. If they feel ok torquing to angle (as in not soft/mushy) then the inserts are fine. I would not remove them.... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hold off on junking out the engine..... Sounds like the Timeserts are fine. It is normal to hear a "crack" or a "pop" sound when loosening the head bolts. This is what you want to hear as that means the insert is sound. Make sure all 10 bolts pop loose in that manner. Try torquing the head bolts to the initial torque plus the angle. If they feel ok torquing to angle (as in not soft/mushy) then the inserts are fine. I would not remove them.... Kevin, why did they only last 50K miles? Should he have the head planed flat? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hold off on junking out the engine..... Sounds like the Timeserts are fine. It is normal to hear a "crack" or a "pop" sound when loosening the head bolts. This is what you want to hear as that means the insert is sound. Make sure all 10 bolts pop loose in that manner. Try torquing the head bolts to the initial torque plus the angle. If they feel ok torquing to angle (as in not soft/mushy) then the inserts are fine. I would not remove them.... Kevin, why did they only last 50K miles? Should he have the head planed flat? No idea... When I did mine, I spoke to our trusted authority and he said he'd never seen a warped head/block deck surface on a Northstar engine and not to bother machining it. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hold off on junking out the engine..... Sounds like the Timeserts are fine. It is normal to hear a "crack" or a "pop" sound when loosening the head bolts. This is what you want to hear as that means the insert is sound. Make sure all 10 bolts pop loose in that manner. Try torquing the head bolts to the initial torque plus the angle. If they feel ok torquing to angle (as in not soft/mushy) then the inserts are fine. I would not remove them.... Kevin, why did they only last 50K miles? Should he have the head planed flat? No idea... When I did mine, I spoke to our trusted authority and he said he'd never seen a warped head/block deck surface on a Northstar engine and not to bother machining it. I understand, but with only 50K miles out of the head gasket, what do you think, is it possible it was torqued wrong? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 It's possible - maybe the proper angle torque sequence was not followed. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonie77 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 z10kl, Why are you changing the head gasket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z10kl Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 The car started loosing coolant for a couple of months. No smoke or steam. Did not run hot. I added coolant. One day I drove it to my business, and it sat for a little while. I got in to start it and the starter broke. Just immediately made a sound like a car makes when you try to start it when it is already running. Had it toed to a buddys garage. He called and said it hydralocked and broke the starter. I don't think the timeserts failed due to what I was told to listen for when breaking them loose. I have not taken the head off. only broke the bolts loose to listen for the snap. All 10 snapped. So I hope to just replace the one head gasket and reassemble. New bolts of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Oh no...... something sounds wrong with this..... HYDROLOCKING does not usually hurt the starter.... Here is what hydrolocking does in this engine see the photo below. Your head bolts DID NOT pull according to the description you gave. You probaby had a leak someplace, radiator end tanks, heater pipes, hose, etc.. What tests were done, did you test for hydorcarbons in the coolant? Do you do a compression test? Did you pressurize the cylinders? Something does not sound right here, I wish you would have found us before you pulled the head.. Here is a hydrolocked Northstar: Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z10kl Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 If it didnt hydralock how did the coolant get in the combustion cylinder. The car was towed from my buddies garage to the caddy dealer. They said they checked hydracarbons and said it was a head gasket problem and said they could fix for 4k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Mike, I don't think all hydrolocks will do that. If I recall correctly, that one was done during the combustion chamber decarbonization process. As I recall, the tech poured the top engine cleaner in and it pooled in the manifold. When he took it out for a ride and throttled up, it sucked in a slug. Point is he had a lot more RPM than cranking. That is not to say that he did not bend a rod, but I would venture a guess that maybe he got away with no damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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