First Oil Change

[Breeza_Brown]

Got my first oil change today and I'm thinking cool gimme the premium package for 30 bucks so they check everything, I go to the counter to pay and the bill like 40 something bucks

The tech like "yeah that thing needs like 8 quarts." I could not believe an oil change could cost that much.

I'm used to $20 oil changes. Guess those days are over.

[Ranger]

I'm used to $20 oil changes. Guess those days are over.

When you opt for the "premium package", yeah. What exactly does that include? I assume this is the new Jiffy Lube commercial we are seeing. Do it yourself and you can get away for less than $20

[BodybyFisher]

I never have my oil changed its such a rip off plus who knows what oil they use. I also have a problem with some kid under my hood and I hate the cross selling that goes on...

24 quarts at costco is like $30.00 that is three oil changes...

[adallak]

Breeza,

Northstars use oil, so you have to add a qtr every 1500 miles or so. The frequency depends on the car and your driving pattern. Others will chime in with recommendations.

[Cadillac Jim]

... Others will chime in with recommendations.

[Catch Me]

Breeza,

Northstars use oil, so you have to add a qtr every 1500 miles or so.

Is this true?

Neither of mine seem to use oil.

One has 155000 miles on it and I drove it 2000 miles cross country when I bought it and it didn't seem like it used any oil at all.

If it did it wasn't very much and didn't need any added before the oil change was due 1500 miles after that.

My other one will need almost a quart at oil change time but I think that oil is on the garage floor from a small leak I just can't find.

[mmarinov]

Is this true?

Neither of mine seem to use oil.

They sometimes do, but it's not a bad thing. Mine uses a quart or so between changes but I just started adding 7Q w/filter which many members do here.

Check out this link (Hey, it was either me or someone else )

http://www.cadillacforums.com/cadillac-tech.html#noil

HTH:

Mark

[Ranger]

Check out this link (Hey, it was either me or someone else

Yeah, if you didn't, I would have.

Actually my '03 uses very little compares to my '97. I actually feel bad about not adding a qt. of fresh oil now and then and wonder if the cylinder walls are staying lubed as well as they should. Never thought I would say this about a car, but I kind of wish it used a bit more oil.

[Catch Me]

Is this true?

Neither of mine seem to use oil.

They sometimes do, but it's not a bad thing. Mine uses a quart or so between changes but I just started adding 7Q w/filter which many members do here.

Check out this link (Hey, it was either me or someone else )

http://www.cadillacforums.com/cadillac-tech.html#noil

HTH:

Mark

That's a very interesting thread. Written like a true factory warranty rep.

What a bunch of crap.

Sorry but IMO a person should not have to put up with an engine that uses oil because the factory did not change the tooling and feels if the engine uses oil it is normal, but falls short of saying for an engine with poor machine work.

That was my take on it anyway.

But I guess it does explain why some feel the use of oil in the northstar is normal.

I wonder what the odds are of getting an engine that will not use oil?

How much of the rest of the parts on the vehicle run this risk of being on the tail end of a tools life?

Wow! Oh boy.

I just realized why my Suburban is such a POS. Every part in it must have been the last part made before a tooling change. No wonder its always broken down and spends more time in the repair garage than in my garage.

The thread was a big help after all.

Who would ever have thought a whole truck could end up being made out of end of the run parts but it would explain all the problems.

Funny thing is it never used oil before the first engine threw a rod . Oh well maybe they changed the stones that morning.

[Cadillac Jim]

Please, "if you can" try to have a little more patience and read more threads than just this one. Someone can give you a link to one of the more informed threads on this subject.

All -- My original engine burned almost no oil for about 70,000 miles and very suddenly turned into an oil guzzler. I blame maintenance. My new engine, with about 6500 miles so far, burns no noticeable oil, and I plan to keep it that way with meticulous maintenance. With regular highway speed driving I probably won't need WOT treatments, but if I do I will use them.

Knowledgeable heads here have told us that the aggressive cross-hatching of the Northstar bores are designed to allow about a quart of oil to pass through the rings every 2000 miles. That's a good thing, because it provides a reasonable refresh rate for the oil under the compression rings.

[JohnnyG]

"Like" 8 quarts, and 7.5 quarts with a new filter are two different things entirely. If you keep putting in 8 quarts of oil, it is almost certain that the engine is being overfilled. Guess what, if you keep doing that, the oil will be burned off by being forced into the PCV valve, and sticking the rings! Next thing you know, you'll be burning 1 quart in 1500 miles!

I'd never go back there! In fact, I'd never go anywhere that they don't have a tech that knows how to read the owner's manual. It's all written down in black and white. Check the oil level with the engine HOT, DO NOT OVERFILL! etc. etc.

[BodybyFisher]

Please, "if you can" try to have a little more patience and read more threads than just this one. Someone can give you a link to one of the more informed threads on this subject.

All -- My original engine burned almost no oil for about 70,000 miles and very suddenly turned into an oil guzzler. I blame maintenance. My new engine, with about 6500 miles so far, burns no noticeable oil, and I plan to keep it that way with meticulous maintenance. With regular highway speed driving I probably won't need WOT treatments, but if I do I will use them.

Knowledgeable heads here have told us that the aggressive cross-hatching of the Northstar bores are designed to allow about a quart of oil to pass through the rings every 2000 miles. That's a good thing, because it provides a reasonable refresh rate for the oil under the compression rings.

Thanks Jim for stepping up, I hesitated to say anything, this kind of bile is why I am slowly leaving this group...I have gotten tired of it...this used to be an aficionado's board.

[JohnnyG]

Sorry but IMO a person should not have to put up with an engine that uses oil because the factory did not change the tooling and feels if the engine uses oil it is normal, but falls short of saying for an engine with poor machine work.

That was my take on it anyway.

Actually, your take is quite biased, and is exactly opposite of what the post says. It's the NEW hone stones that cause the more aggressive hone pattern, and hence the higher oil consumption. Nothing wriiten in that article indicates that the reason that your Suburban's problems (which certainly does NOT have a Northstar in it) has anything to do with tooling or "last part made before a tooling change." assembly. More than likely, you know why the Suburban threw a rod, and you're just looking for something else to blame it on.

[Ranger]

That's a very interesting thread. Written like a true factory warranty rep.

What a bunch of crap.

Sounds as though you are more knowledgeable than the engineers who designed the Northstar. What are your credentials if I may ask?

[Breeza_Brown]

"Like" 8 quarts, and 7.5 quarts with a new filter are two different things entirely. If you keep putting in 8 quarts of oil, it is almost certain that the engine is being overfilled. Guess what, if you keep doing that, the oil will be burned off by being forced into the PCV valve, and sticking the rings! Next thing you know, you'll be burning 1 quart in 1500 miles!

I'd never go back there! In fact, I'd never go anywhere that they don't have a tech that knows how to read the owner's manual. It's all written down in black and white. Check the oil level with the engine HOT, DO NOT OVERFILL! etc. etc.

They only put in 7.5 quarts but they rounded up to 8 when they charged me for the oil and the disposal etc. I just won't get the plus/premium package, just the basic.

it seems like all the lube places dispense the oil digitally like when you pump gas anyway.

[adallak]

"Like" 8 quarts, and 7.5 quarts with a new filter are two different things entirely. If you keep putting in 8 quarts of oil, it is almost certain that the engine is being overfilled. Guess what, if you keep doing that, the oil will be burned off by being forced into the PCV valve, and sticking the rings! Next thing you know, you'll be burning 1 quart in 1500 miles!

I'd never go back there! In fact, I'd never go anywhere that they don't have a tech that knows how to read the owner's manual. It's all written down in black and white. Check the oil level with the engine HOT, DO NOT OVERFILL! etc. etc.

They only put in 7.5 quarts but they rounded up to 8 when they charged me for the oil and the disposal etc. I just won't get the plus/premium package, just the basic.

it seems like all the lube places dispense the oil digitally like when you pump gas anyway.

Breeza,

Changing the engine oil on your own not only saves you money but also allows you to avoid situations when an idiot at quick lube place can easily (unintentionally or even on purpose) screw your car. Just follow the recommendations from our fine members (do not overfill, take measurements only when engine is hot, periodically treat the engine with WOT's etc.) and you should be fine. One quart per 1500 miles happens only to those who do not follow these recommendations. As I mentioned in my original reply oil usage depends on the car and the driver.

[Breeza_Brown]

thank you sir.

[mmarinov]

The thread was a big help after all.

Who would ever have thought a whole truck could end up being made out of end of the run parts but it would explain all the problems.

Funny thing is it never used oil before the first engine threw a rod . Oh well maybe they changed the stones that morning.

Oh, Cheese And R!ce. Look, I was trying to help explain oil usage with my basic knowledge of the N* and the things I've learned from this board and TG. I know, I know, this is a luxury car and I shouldn't expect ANY problems after <<usermiles>> miles. Sorry your <<insert vehicle make/model here>> has given <<username>> trouble.

When I joined this board I was a complete novice. Seeing as I have 200+ posts, I STILL consider myself a novice and try to ingratiate myself to the more knowledgeable folks here. In my limited experience I have seen more knuckleheads come and go here than I care to see. My God man, design a better engine, then, if you're so smart (like my engineer friend truant). Or buy a Lexus; they seem to be a popular alternative.

As someone said, this USED to be an aficionado's board where one could post one's troubles as they relate to their Cadillac. This is NOT a b!tch-board about how crappy GM is. Your authoritative stance is repelling to me, considering you have been here for less than a few months, just like me.

What happened to this guy?:

[1] "Hope this helps and again nice site."

[2] "Easy enough to find out, just grab the top of the tire and see if it will move in or out.

Hope you find it."

[3] "The other noise you think is an exhaust noise could be an exhaust manifold leak or not knowing what it sounds like, a bad CV joint on one of the front axles.

Good luck. "

[4] "Sorry to hear that. Been there once or twice and it's no fun.

You may have a bad switch. If working the switch slow towards the up position while moving the lever / button whatever around will not get it going try spraying a little electric motor and contact cleaner into the switch."

[5] "As for the replacment cost of the compressor. The compressor can be found for as little as $159.00 and up on line. Check out who you buy from because in this case you do get what you pay for."

I could go on but it's not worth my time. Contribute here and stop this d-bag drivel you're sending. You're better than that. I'd rather add oil to my N* (whatever year it may be) than make a new car payment. My credentials in this particular field are few; that's why I'm here. Please post yours and garner the respect you're so well deserved.

Mark

[rmac-etc]

I usually do not need to add oil between oil changes to my 160k etc, but frequent wot's and generally abusive driving practices may be the reason :-).

I recently went to a local auto parts store intending to change my oil but the price for oil was nearly $3 a quart and more (didn't have the gallon jugs that I was looking for). It was not worth doing it myself. Went to a nearby small independant shop and got an oil change for not much more than if I had bought the oil and filter myself. Yep, the N* takes more oil, and I happily paid $35 .... if i were driving a Chevy Corsica, I could have gotten out of there for $20 and change .... but I would still be driving a frigging Corsica! I would advise avoiding chains and find a local independant you like and can trust if you aren't DIY'ing (which I normally do -- fuel pump and master cylinder in the past month, for instance). The chains will always try to sell you 'services' you don't need.

[Spurlee]

My 1996 El Dorado ETC with 135,000 miles uses about a quart or more of oil every 3,000 mi. I'd always figured it was due to the 32 valve guides and mechanical work on the top end.

I change the oil/filter myself and use the undercar opportunity to keep an eye on everything else.

This forum has been absolutely indespensable in keeping my car running, primarily by giving me the confidence to take on tasks myself: Water Pump, Idler/Tensioner, O2 sensors, Oil Sensor, Stabilizer Bushings and End links, Transmission flush, Belts, etc. and also by letting me know which tasks are best done by someone else: AC Compressor, Alternator. All in all I've saved thousands of dollars by posting and reading posts here.

Keep up the good work everyone!

[Cadillac Jim]

Magnificent! I'll add my thanks, and I decided to bring my FSM in from the garage and start helping out after I used posts here to get past a big problem.

I think that a quart every 3,000 miles is what is targeted in the design to keep the oil in the rings fresh. I believe that the normal range is 1,500 to 4,000 miles a quart.

[hardtimesnatl]

On a related note, where is the drain plug on a 2000 Deville Northstar? I have looked under the engine and it's not obvious anywhere.

[BodybyFisher]

Should be on the oil pan closer to the passenger side facing the rear of the car...

[95SevilleSLS]

I think a lot of the oil usage starts from a lot of city driving. The carbon build up causes it to use a little more oil, which is why the WOT's are a good idea.

Like someone said earlier, a lot of the problems I blame on maintence. I also blame it on ignorance. GM designed the northstar to have a little more of a gap in between the cylinder walls and the piston because it's a higher performance engine and it needs good lubrication. How many BMW's or Mercedes to you see with 300,000 miles that had absolutely nothing done to them and their entire life they were beat to crap? I personally have not seen any. But I see cadillacs everyday still bouncing around out there with well over 200,000 miles. I'd rather use 1 quart every 1000 miles than have an engine go out after 120,000 miles like my Fords did that I had.

I have personally have only had one problem with all of my GM's (I've owned 11). I had a 90 deville that leaked a little oil. I suppose 188,000 miles takes a toll on the gaskets. My 01 suburban that I have right now has not caused me any problems. I tow a 6000 lbs camper in the summer and beat the living crap out of it. I usually race ricers with it and have it to 5000 RPM quite often. Never has used a drop of oil and never has had a problem other than a fuel pump and I'm at 125,000 miles.

As for changing your own oil, I'd definetly go that way. One of my friends took his car into tires plus and they "forgot" to put the oil back in. They drove off thinking that there was oil in it. Starting knocking in a little bit and tires plus said, we aren't liable. BS if you ask me.

I do all my maintence and repairs so I KNOW how it was done and if something goes wrong, I know it was my mistake. And now-a-days you can't rely on anyone anymore. Almost everyone is just trying to stick on every last part to get the most money out of you.

I apologize for the long post.

[tjtjwdad]

WOT's are a good thing in curbing the oil consumption in my experience. Slack off on the WOT's oil consumption goes up, Stay current with WOT's, oil consumption goes down. I've modified my WOT's in as such as I only go 1/2 to 3/4 throttle when initially accelerating so it's not so hard on the engine mounts.

Another thing as Ranger touched on is I really don't mind adding a quart between oil changes because if anything it helps.

Something else I read once is the Northstar was designed to operate continously at 6000 RPM's. To do that an engine has to have a good oiling system and I've also heard of Northstars with 100,000 or more miles and they're still just as strong as they were when driven off the lot when they were first sold. How many other cars can do these things?

For that alone I don't mind adding a quart when needed.

Jim