BodybyFisher Posted March 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Runar, my scrap yard says the same thing that its rare to find a good one. I need the RR badly now and will need to buy a new one soon. I don't think that MOOG or scrap yards are the answer anymore, the only option is buying new, that is why I thought that it would be easy to get MOOG to produce a bushing... oh well Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runar Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Runar, my scrap yard says the same thing that its rare to find a good one. I need the RR badly now and will need to buy a new one soon. I don't think that MOOG or scrap yards are the answer anymore, the only option is buying new, that is why I thought that it would be easy to get MOOG to produce a bushing... oh well Hi Mike Thanks for your reply. I will take your advice. Regards Runar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Ok, tonight I decided to dissect the rear knuckle and take photos of it because the photos of the ball joint seem to have been taken down on cadillacowners. Using a vice, a big punch and a heavy hammer I was able to knock the top bushing/cross axis ball joint assembly out of the knuckle, here is the knuckle after I knocked it out: Here is the bushing/cross axis ball joint assembly, the cracks you see I caused trying to drive it out I used my Dremel tool with a cutoff disk and cut the housing in half, notice the nylon plastic 'bushing' that the ball rides in, the grease was pretty badly dried up Another view Here is the cross axis ball joint out of the nylon plastic 'bushing', it looks to me that the nylon plastic piece is worn, allowing side to side movement of the ball joint Another view Closeup of the nylon plastic bushing View of the cross axis ball joint. It would be terrific if we could find a supplier of this part, we could easily drive the old one out and press in a new assembly. I am going to try to find a supplier hoping that Kevin is right. see this thread for more knuckle discussion. Kevin mentions that someone must manufacture this part, he is right. We just need to find the manufacturer. Any ideas? http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15062 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Unless the supplier of the part owns the tooling, they will not be able to sell parts in the aftermarket. There has to be some aftermarket manufacturer that would be able to tool up these parts if they could be convinced it would be a good business case. Did Moog give up or are they attempting to find another source for the part? The part doesn't appear any more complex than a ball joint... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefank Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Hello Mike, great pix, thanks for posting. Now there must be a manufacturer for this thing! Stefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Unless the supplier of the part owns the tooling, they will not be able to sell parts in the aftermarket. Just as a matter of curiosity, do we know who the OEM supplier is/was? Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I would appreciate it if we all did some research to see if we can find the OEM supplier of the knuckle assembly. Can you guys imagine if you had 1000 of these ball joints how much demand there would be? These could sell for $50 each and be a bargain.. I still can not figure out why a company like MOOG wouldnt produce this part, unless they are prohibited from doing so. I can not believe how easy it was to knock out the old ball joint assembly, these would be a cake walk to replace. I think that pressing them in would be a cinch with a short length of pipe that fit on the frame. Lets see what we can find out. Can we send this link to the guru and the other fellow on this board that works for GM (dont say his name). Maybe we can get to the bottom of this. I am thinking of getting in touch directly with GM and seeing how this can be handled. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I would appreciate it if we all did some research to see if we can find the OEM supplier of the knuckle assembly. Mike, As one of the few who actually have one in hand, can you find no MFG's markings in sight? Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I would appreciate it if we all did some research to see if we can find the OEM supplier of the knuckle assembly. Mike, As one of the few who actually have one in hand, can you find no MFG's markings in sight? Regards, Warren Hmm I hadn't looked closely, I will check it out. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I'm guessing the OEM supplier wouldn't legally be able to provide this part. KHE suggested this in post #29. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I would appreciate it if we all did some research to see if we can find the OEM supplier of the knuckle assembly. Can you guys imagine if you had 1000 of these ball joints how much demand there would be? These could sell for $50 each and be a bargain.. I still can not figure out why a company like MOOG wouldnt produce this part, unless they are prohibited from doing so. I can not believe how easy it was to knock out the old ball joint assembly, these would be a cake walk to replace. I think that pressing them in would be a cinch with a short length of pipe that fit on the frame. Lets see what we can find out. Can we send this link to the guru and the other fellow on this board that works for GM (dont say his name). Maybe we can get to the bottom of this. I am thinking of getting in touch directly with GM and seeing how this can be handled. Mike, I think it is a waste of time to find the OEM supplier for the knuckle/cross axis ball joint. They can't supply parts to the aftermarket for the reason I mentioned in my earlier post. I think it would be better to pursue with an aftermarket chassis component supplier. Your earlier post sounded like Moog's supplier was not comfortable in producing the part. Maybe Moog could find another supplier to produce this part. It might make sense to contact Moog again and see what their options are. If Moog has regular ball joints made, this one shouldn't be much different. Dana, TRW, and BorgWarner are other manufacturers of chassis parts. It is possible the design is patented - maybe that is why no aftermarket parts are available??? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCat83 Posted October 23, 2007 Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 I would bet that the drawing and purchasing specification for this part are marked "proprietary/confidential" and the supplier, who is selected via competetive bid, is contractually prohibited from selling these parts to anyone other than GM. IF, there is enough of a demand some other manufacturer may be willing to reverse/re-engineer the entire knuckle assembly (getting around GM's proprietary design/drawings), create it's own design; then tool, manufacture and sell a solution to the aftermarket... Heim joints perhaps...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'm not all that intimate with the design of the knuckle, but I wonder why there's a ball joint-type device in there at all. Is there ANY axial rotation of that area during suspension movement? With the fixed points of the upper and lower control arms, I wouldn't think that knuckle would experience any rotational movement. Well actually, I guess I can see that -- the toe control link is rather short, so there'd be changes in toe during suspension movement. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc2 Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Over the years, I have watched members replace their rear knuckles because a bushing wears out. The rear becomes noisy and the car looses its stability. The price of the rear knuckle part is $350 to $400 online without labor. This is expensive, wasteful and the fact that a bushing has not been developed by GM is stupid. BUT, I guess GM prefers to sell a $400 knuckle over a $15 bushing. I currently have worn out bushings and dread spending $400 per side. I contacted an aftermarket suspension part vendor (GREAT company) and I am working with them to see if they can develop bushings for the rear knuckles. I spoke to them today, and they were very receptive to this idea. I pointed out to them that I think there is demand for this solution. I plan to buy an old rear knuckle from my local scrap yard and ship it to them. My questions are: 1) What years are susceptible to the rear knuckle problem. I think it involves the 93 through 96 at least, but have a feeling that 97 through 99 could be involved. 2) Does this issue span the entire Deville, Eldorado and Seville lines? 3) Do all of the bushings on the knuckle crap out or is it just one? 4) When Stefan analyzed his knuckle, I think he said that the bushings were injected rubber molds (Stefan?) 5) I think I heard that the bushings were liquid filled, is that true? Sorry if any of these questions are stupid, but I have not pulled my rear knuckles yet and don't know much about the design. Anyone who knows about the design I would appreciate anything you know about them, maybe we can have this company (to remain nameless for the time being) to create replacement bushings. Thanks guys, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc2 Posted March 25, 2008 Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 I would appreciate it if we all did some research to see if we can find the OEM supplier of the knuckle assembly. Mike, As one of the few who actually have one in hand, can you find no MFG's markings in sight? Regards, Warren hi if you are still locking for the supplier this is a posabilty metaldyne.com phone 1-734-2076456 thay make allmost all of gm suspenion parts thay are in plymoth mi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timzigler Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 looks to be over a year since any posts on the subject of rear knuckle bushings. Any update on this subject from anyone? Just priced new knuckles yesterday and cost from GM was nearly $700 LH and $600 RH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 looks to be over a year since any posts on the subject of rear knuckle bushings. Any update on this subject from anyone? Just priced new knuckles yesterday and cost from GM was nearly $700 LH and $600 RH. Those prices are including installation right? The part is about $300 per side. I do not think there is any update, I had spoken to MOOG and they didn't think they could take on reproducing this part due to the radial ball joint at the top. I have always thought that response was odd, because they produce tie-rods and ball joints that are equally if not more complex to produce. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEldo97 Posted July 25, 2008 Report Share Posted July 25, 2008 GM is probably retaining rights to a proprietary design... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Well I have GREAT news guys! My contact from MOOG/Federal Mogul today came back to me to tell me that they WILL have an AFTERMARKET solution in the First Quarter of 2009, for the rear knuckle bushings on our Cadillacs! OH YEA! Here is his email to me! I am doing the Mexican Hat Dance!!!!! And to think that my efforts caused this, I am proud! Persistance wins the prize, this began in early 2007! **************************************************************************** Mike Hope this gets to you OK It sometimes seems that we work at a snails pace. I just heard from one of my vendors that the rear suspension (knuckle) bushings that we were after will be available in the first quarter. I will let you know when the bushings become available XXX Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Great news Mike. Persistence indeed pays off! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I posted this over at cadillacowners to let our cadillac friends know, but they would NOT allow me to type caddyinfo.com or to reference this thread via a link, very surprising Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Well I have GREAT news guys! My contact from MOOG/Federal Mogul today came back to me to tell me that they WILL have an AFTERMARKET solution in the First Quarter of 2009, for the rear knuckle bushings on our Cadillacs! OH YEA! Good job! Bruce 2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 thanks, I am very excited about this happening. I need to do both sides if I still have this Deville. I have always liked MOOG, and they really moved on this... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 I posted this over at cadillacowners to let our cadillac friends know, but they would NOT allow me to type caddyinfo.com or to reference this thread via a link, very surprising HUH? If that is truly the case, you'll not see me there anymore. I'm left to wonder . . . There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 I posted this over at cadillacowners to let our cadillac friends know, but they would NOT allow me to type caddyinfo.com or to reference this thread via a link, very surprising HUH? If that is truly the case, you'll not see me there anymore. I'm left to wonder . . . Do a test, try typing caddyinfo.com and add post, it gets changed to cadillacforums.com and then try to post a link to a thread here, it gets changed I am not criticizing them, its their rule, but it seems a bit restrictive if you ask me, that is something the oil guy would do if you ask me. I will NOT be recommending that site anymore however, which I had done often Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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