BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Over the years, I have watched members replace their rear knuckles because a bushing wears out. The rear becomes noisy and the car looses its stability. The price of the rear knuckle part is $350 to $400 online without labor. This is expensive, wasteful and the fact that a bushing has not been developed by GM is stupid. BUT, I guess GM prefers to sell a $400 knuckle over a $15 bushing. I currently have worn out bushings and dread spending $400 per side. I contacted an aftermarket suspension part vendor (GREAT company) and I am working with them to see if they can develop bushings for the rear knuckles. I spoke to them today, and they were very receptive to this idea. I pointed out to them that I think there is demand for this solution. I plan to buy an old rear knuckle from my local scrap yard and ship it to them. My questions are: 1) What years are susceptible to the rear knuckle problem. I think it involves the 93 through 96 at least, but have a feeling that 97 through 99 could be involved. 2) Does this issue span the entire Deville, Eldorado and Seville lines? 3) Do all of the bushings on the knuckle crap out or is it just one? 4) When Stefan analyzed his knuckle, I think he said that the bushings were injected rubber molds (Stefan?) 5) I think I heard that the bushings were liquid filled, is that true? Sorry if any of these questions are stupid, but I have not pulled my rear knuckles yet and don't know much about the design. Anyone who knows about the design I would appreciate anything you know about them, maybe we can have this company (to remain nameless for the time being) to create replacement bushings. Thanks guys, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 BBF, I believe this has been an issue for some later models as well but rarely because the bushing are sturdy. Time, mileage, and or ride conditions seem to be the enemy. My left rear bushing would probably still be ok today if it weren't for a badly rusted fuel fill tube dripping on the knuckle bushing. I think you are right about there being a market for the bushings on earlier models. Keep us posted. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Mike, I'm pretty sure that at least the top bushings are bad (loose) on mine. I think this would apply generally to any '93-'97 Seville, '94-'99 DeVille, and '93-'02 Eldorado, as they all used the same knuckle design. If you're asking if GM came out with a better design in the late '90s, I don't know that. But if your source needs a petition, given a reasonable price, I would purchase a set. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefank Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Mike, they are not injected rubber, that's what I thought first they were. They are more complicated, because they have to carry radial and axial load. They are not fluid filled, as far as I remember. I used a ten-ton-press to remove one of the bushings from the knuckle, it will only come out one way, and made a drawing of the dimensions. If you want I can look it up, can't find it right now b/c I've got a new PC a few weeks ago and have to search my archives... Best Stefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Mike, they are not injected rubber, that's what I thought first they were. They are more complicated, because they have to carry radial and axial load. They are not fluid filled, as far as I remember. I used a ten-ton-press to remove one of the bushings from the knuckle, it will only come out one way, and made a drawing of the dimensions. If you want I can look it up, can't find it right now b/c I've got a new PC a few weeks ago and have to search my archives... Best Stefan Thanks Stefan, I would appreciate any information you have on this. I know you disected the bushings pretty good. What bushings were bad. Are there 3 bushings (top, bottom and arm)? Do you think the bushings can be removed and new ones pressed in? Thanks, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefank Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Mike, have a look here: knuckle pix On mine the upper bushing was totally shot, the lower would have worked for a while. Stefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Mike, have a look here: knuckle pix On mine the upper bushing was totally shot, the lower would have worked for a while. Stefan Stefan, those photos were great, Thanks Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 UPDATE, I have been trading emails with the company, they got Stefan's photos and I offered to send a knuckle assembly. Hopefully this will develop... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 I have a set of knuckles off my 2000 eldo that are bad, just saw them sitting the other day in the garage and was thinking what am I holding on to them for? I was going to throw them out so if you want them you can have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 I have a set of knuckles off my 2000 eldo that are bad, just saw them sitting the other day in the garage and was thinking what am I holding on to them for? I was going to throw them out so if you want them you can have them. caddypete, thanks, I did not know that this problem extended to 2000. If you could could you post a close up photo of one of them and post it here? Please save one for me if you would. If they ask for samples your 2000 would be a good one to have sent to the is company... Thanks, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caddypete Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Mine are exactly like the previosly posted pic, even the 1018 LH stamped on them. You are welcome to both if you would like them. It would be a pleasure if it could save other owners the excessive cost of replacing the whole knuckle, I remember the shock when I was told 800.00 per side to have them replace them by the dealer. Was not much happier when I found the price to buy them either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Mine are exactly like the previosly posted pic, even the 1018 LH stamped on them. You are welcome to both if you would like them. It would be a pleasure if it could save other owners the excessive cost of replacing the whole knuckle, I remember the shock when I was told 800.00 per side to have them replace them by the dealer. Was not much happier when I found the price to buy them either pete, I will contact the company before the end of the week and if they want a knuckle, I might ask you to send one to them directly, preferrably the one that looks worse. I gave the company a link to this thread, hopefully they are watching this. Thanks a lot, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2007 I just sent the company an email requesting a status update, the idea has been sent to engineering for their input. I will send the a rear knuckle if they need it.... Mike In order to keep the rear suspension info in one location, I am posting a link to this thread here: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12815 I have given a link to this thread, along with the one on cadillacforums to the company I am working with so that they know there is demand and interest out there... If this ever happens you guys are going to be very impressed with what company it is, I love this company! Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeay Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Build it and I will buy it. In the last eight hours, I've learned a few new things, which I've added here. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadil...html#post989352 The part in question is grease filled, with boots at either end, held in place by retainers. See the blurry pictures in the link above. Inside the "bushing" there is a plastic or nylon bearing(???). Once the boots go, the grease gets out and the nylon goes by by, hence the clunk and sway. If you want to check yours, with all four tires on the ground, grab a rear tire at 12 o'clock and violently push and pull. If you hear a clunk clunk, and think this can't be safe, then there gone. I wish you luck BodybyFisher, just make sure that the 96 seville sts is included for production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenMachine Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I noticed a bit of play in my drive side (left) rear tire and I hear it "ping" from time to time when I close the door (the car body shifts) I hope it just needs some lube and not the 400 dollar part. The Green's Machines 1998 Deville - high mileage, keeps on going, custom cat-back exhaust 2003 Seville - stock low mileage goodness! 2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG - Smaller supercharger pulley, Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Dyno tune, etc 1998 Firebird Formula - 408 LQ9 Stroker motor swap and all sorts of go fast stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Build it and I will buy it. In the last eight hours, I've learned a few new things, which I've added here. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadil...html#post989352 The part in question is grease filled, with boots at either end, held in place by retainers. See the blurry pictures in the link above. Inside the "bushing" there is a plastic or nylon bearing(???). Once the boots go, the grease gets out and the nylon goes by by, hence the clunk and sway. If you want to check yours, with all four tires on the ground, grab a rear tire at 12 o'clock and violently push and pull. If you hear a clunk clunk, and think this can't be safe, then there gone. I wish you luck BodybyFisher, just make sure that the 96 seville sts is included for production Its funny, I accidently found that diagnosis method when I was fooling around one day pumping gas with my daughter in the car, and I rocked the rear back and forth side to side with my butt and heard a clunk and realized that it was either a hub or knuckle. Since my car is all over the road when I hit expansion joints, and the hubs are not bad, its most certainly the knuckles.. Stefan, did a lot of work disecting his bushings and I think he concluded that these were unusual bushings, see Stefan's statements in this thread, he notes they are lubed with grease in #3 http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...&hl=bushing I am not sure if these bushings can be fabricated but we will see... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkz71 Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 According to the thread on the other forum, they are "cross axis ball joints, not bushings. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadil...e-bushings.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmurph Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 I noticed a bit of play in my drive side (left) rear tire and I hear it "ping" from time to time when I close the door (the car body shifts) I hope it just needs some lube and not the 400 dollar part. The ping is what caused me to replace my right rear knuckle, after replacement no more ping. It was in bad enough shape that I feel I need to do the left one as well at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 According to the thread on the other forum, they are "cross axis ball joints, not bushings. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadil...e-bushings.html Thanks clarkz, I looked at those photos, they are quite interesting, great work by those folks. I sent the company I am dealing with a link to those photos... Hopefully the design won't cause a problem for this company, they make all types of suspension parts already... Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Well I got bad news today on this, here was the response I got from MOOG....... I will watch for more responses but I am not optimistic.... We tried! I asked about developing these 'bushings' we will see.. Mike I received a response from my bushing supplier and he felt that these "bushings' were beyond his capabilities - now we know why. I know that we do not make these in any of our plants, so I have calls out to other chassis suppliers. Will keep you posted. XXX Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsjoe Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 No Mike, YOU tried and the effort is appreciated. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 No Mike, YOU tried and the effort is appreciated. Joe Thanks Joe, we will keep our fingers crossed, who knows, I personally think there is demand out there if someone produces a part... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeay Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 When I add information to this thread, http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadil...e-bushings.html Do you guys get notified? If you didn't catch it on my post, I need a volunteer in the Coos Bay Oregon area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runar Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Well I got bad news today on this, here was the response I got from MOOG....... I will watch for more responses but I am not optimistic.... We tried! I asked about developing these 'bushings' we will see.. Mike I received a response from my bushing supplier and he felt that these "bushings' were beyond his capabilities - now we know why. I know that we do not make these in any of our plants, so I have calls out to other chassis suppliers. Will keep you posted. XXX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runar Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Hi Mike Have been reading with interest your posts about the rear knuckles. Did the test that Mikeay suggested. Sure enough, I have a big play in my rear right (94 Deville). My left seems ok for now. Read Stefans post, and got some good info from him. Had a knuckle lined up in Sacramento(Cadauto.com), but when I called this morning, it was gone. They said, only one in ten is good enough for resale. I know you keep a close eye on the wreckers in your area. How is the situation there about these knuckles?Also, if I have to go to a new one, where do you suggest I go?I hate to lean on you Mike, but you are always coming through for everybody, so I take my chances. Regards Runar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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