kens96 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 96 Eldo ETC - Miles 131K. I've searched the Forum and there is a lot of info about this with different fixes Have something loose under the front of the car that rattles only under the following conditions: Low speed (5-20 MPH) Uneven road where cars weight shift left to right on the chassis Going over a speed bump with only one front wheel Appears louder and more pronounced when it is colder out(for FLA that's under 50 degrees.) Had it up on a lift at Tire Kingdom and pulled turned and tugged on stabilizers, end links, struts, etc and nothing appears to be loose or worn out either front or rear suspension. Have not had the struts replaced but I don't have any of the symptons that would suggest they are shot (no noises and no sea sickness like you get on bad shocks crossing a bridge). The car has only been in Florida and the roads are very good, not like when I lived up north. Get no noise bouncing the front end up and down. Had a similar rattle on a 98 vette and was able to reproduce the noise by rocking the rear stabilizer bar. The fix was replacing the rear stabilizer bushings and endlinks. On the Eldo that's not possible. to check Those of you who have been there....what do you recommend??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 This is a difficult problem to diagnose, but if I were you i would check 1) your strut mounts and 2) your front stabilizer bar bushings. Yanking on the stabilizer bars will not disclose that they are worn, they are cheap enough just replace the stabilizer bar bushings they owe you nothing. You will not see that they are worn until they are out.. When the strut mounts wear out you will get noise going over uneven side to side roads and turning the wheel. I assume your ball joints are lubed adequately? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted January 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Thanks for the quick relpy BodybyFisher Yes The ball joints are lubed. Should I just replace the stabilizer bushings first? If it is like the vette, there was just a U clamp and 2 bolts for each bushing.correct? Don't bother with the end links? Also - Iv'e seen some discussion about thed strut rod bushings. Not sure if they would rattle at low speed. Look more like they would make a clunk noise with front to rear movement . Are they hard to replace if needed? By the way - I know there is never enough cowbell. "Soft White Underbelly aka. BOC" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Yes its a u bracket, they are very cheap and its an easy saturday morning DIY job.. I would say that is the cheapest thing to do, and given you have a 96 like me... they are needed unless you replaced them previously... Try not to let the suspension hang it will be easier with the suspension on the ground... While you are doing this job you can check your end links but if they are bad you will get a really bad noise over bumps or cobble stone type of roads. Grab them and see if you have any play.... The strut rod bushings should be replaced as needed when they wear you dont see the wear and the bar is allowed to contact the frame and the bar wears see REGIS's car site and I think he has a photo of a badly worn strut rod... Yes the strut rod can create noise also... but you will also feel the car having poor directional stability on turns or exit ramps when you hit bumps or expansion joints... You will need to remove the lower control arms to do the strut rod bushings Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted January 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Will do the stabilizer bushings this weekend ! From your decription of how the car could handle if the strut rods were bad... i don't have those symptoms. It tracks true and handles tight in turns and doesn't dart around crossing expansion joints. The end links might be okay because I only get the noise at slow speeds. Driving on uneven or brick laid road sections that are in the office complex I get no noises. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Good Luck... keep your eyes open, when you take the stabilizer bar u bracket off you will be able to feel if the end links are good.... Let us know how it turns out, Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Intermediate steering shaft as well? Not too sure if that year had this problem but mine and years close had it. Your symptoms sound like mine. 2001 STS Mettalic Otter Grey, Black Leather, 213,000 kilometers - miles - ? Still running strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDK Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Kens96, Consider checking the CV-joints. I believe my car had similar noises, yet no noticable loose front-end parts or handling problems to complain about. New CV-joints on both sides helped immensely. Good luck ! Add power to leave problems behind. Most braking is just - poor planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenMachine Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 if your sure its comeing from under the car ignore this.. but I have noticed when the defroster vent trim is cold, (everyday now for me) and it warps a bit I get a vibration sound, drove me nuts trying to figure out, then pushing the vent down solved the problem (but then it pops back up I'm thinking glue or something), I say this because it was in the same speed range you mention. The Green's Machines 1998 Deville - high mileage, keeps on going, custom cat-back exhaust 2003 Seville - stock low mileage goodness! 2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG - Smaller supercharger pulley, Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Dyno tune, etc 1998 Firebird Formula - 408 LQ9 Stroker motor swap and all sorts of go fast stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted January 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Went to order the stabilizer bushings and there are both 19MM and 21MM sizes available. 96 ETC ...is there any reason why GM whould put out 2 Sizes? Is there an option code to indicate what side the should be? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Went to order the stabilizer bushings and there are both 19MM and 21MM sizes available. 96 ETC ...is there any reason why GM whould put out 2 Sizes? Is there an option code to indicate what side the should be? Ken Its probably STS vs. NON STS or ETC vs. not ETC. I am sure if you call GM or Brasington your vin number will disclose the correct part. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franey Posted January 19, 2007 Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 THE info you need is not in the vin number , it is in your build codes in the trunk on the data sheet under the tire cover. SOME cars came automatically with the larger sway bar but you could order the stiffer suspension as an option. CHECK THE TRUNK, your dealer will tell you what to look for. MY money is on the end links CAUSING THE NOISE. or BOTH. With YOUR MILES , it is cheap enough parts, I HAD same noise , turned out to be end links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Thanks Franey, I have the bushings and will be installing them tomorrow. My auto parts store is great! They special ordered and are holding the endlinks for me and if the noise persists, i will install those next. If I don't need them they will just send them back to the warehouse. Will let you all know how it turns out Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I ordered sway bar bushings and endlinks this past year through my local caddy dealer and all they needed were the last 8 digits of the VIN. The new endlinks firmed up the ride and the dealer was nice enough to beat the price Brasington quoted. But only after I showed them the quote and gave them my speech about how I preferred to do business locally blah blah blah. Here are a couple threads you may find helpful if you get stuck: http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...amp;hl=endlinks http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...amp;hl=endlinks "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Here is the update Replaced the stabilizer bushings (the old ones were shot) were and the noise did diminish but I still had the rattle. Went and picked up the end links and went to work removing the old ones. I CANNOT GET THE ENDLINK STUDS OUT OF THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE SWAYBAR. ACTUALLY BROKE THE ENDLINK OFF THE STUD TRYING VARIOUS METHODS. Tried fishing the swaybar out....that will never happen. I've hit it with PB Blaster. Locked the endling up under the control arm with a bottle jack and hit the stud from behind. (That's how I got the driver side out) . No luck with the passenger. Any suggestions on what to do next short of putting the stabilizer bar back in the car and driving to a front end place with new endlinks in hand? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 I would think with the swaybar out you would be able to put it in a vice and knock it out with a hammer, you got the nut off and the stud it sticking in the bar? You are able to bang on the stud with a hammer? Maybe once the penetrant gets a chance to do its job you will pop it... I have heard others having problems with this also.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 I'm able to bang on the stud with a 4lb sledge from under the car by using a bottle jack to lock the end of the stabilizer to the lower control arm. Actually have mushroomed the end doing this. My guess is it is frozen I can't get the stabilizer bar out from under the car. Tried twisting it out through both sides. with no luck. Unless there is a trick to this it , looks like I'd have to drop the cradle to get it out and I'm not equiped to do that. What about cutting, drilling, applying heat. Anyone been here? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinW Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Try applying heat (torch) followed by the use of the sledge hammer, in repeated cycles. ___________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Oh I got the impression you somehow got it out... Yes you should heat it, the bar.. Is there anyway to attach a puller? This was probably your problem, I believe that the slamming cocks the stud in place. Keep at it, soak it down when you get up in the morning and let it sit again, the PB Blaster is good stuff... One the the problems you are having is that the bar is set in rubber, so you are not getting a solid hit, consider that thought maybe you can shore up to get a stronger hit.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 This is where I'm at....The pics are of the driver side which came ou tafter a few shots. The passenger side won't budge ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Use an acetylene or MAPP gas torch to heat the sway bar (around the link) - it will expand and you'll be able to tap out the link with a hammer. If you don't have access to one, you could try a propane torch but I don't think you'll be able to get it hot enough. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 We have had success !!!!! Cut both ends off. Drilled out the center or the stud. Used a dremel to cut slots in the stud piece stuck in the end of the bar Locked the bar against the frame with a bottle jack Used a punch and ball-peen and broke it out in pieces WHAT A JOB!!!!! Wife worked with me. What a girl! Going back out to the garage to put it all together. Will let you know how it turms out. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Nice Ken, good innovation and thinking...sounds like surgery. Bracing the bar stiffened it up right? Lucky man to get your wife helping, we should all be so lucky... keep us up to date....with the outcome My favorite tool has become my dremel.... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens96 Posted January 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Well the new parts are in and the rattles and clunks are gone!!!! Below are some pics of the culprits and what they looked like after we beat ourselves up getting them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Nice job, she should feel tighter now on turns (the car that is, get your head out of the gutter )... Glad all the noises are gone! Mike Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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