WarrenJ Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 Well you might question my tastes in recreational reading, but let's leave that for later. I was researching coolant flushing and found a TSB (#502863) wherein Cadillac attaches importance to checking for electrolysis in the cooling system. Further, they describe a very simple test. ******************* "IMPORTANT: IF THE VEHICLE'S COOLANT IS LOW, DRAINED OUT, OR THE CUSTOMER HAS REPEATEDLY ADDED COOLANT OR WATER TO THE SYSTEM, THEN THE SYSTEM SHOULD BE COMPLETELY FLUSHED USING THE PROCEDURE EXPLAINED LATER IN THIS BULLETIN. 2. INSPECT THE COOLANT FLOW RESTRICTOR, IF THE VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH ONE, FOR PROPER OPERATION AND CONDITION. SEE SECTION 6B OF THE APPROPRIATE SERVICE MANUAL IF EQUIPPED AND FOR PROPER LOCATION. 3. VERIFY THAT NO ELECTROLYSIS IS PRESENT IN THE COOLING SYSTEM. THIS ELECTROLYSIS TEST CAN BE PERFORMED BEFORE OR AFTER THE SYSTEM HAS BEEN REPAIRED. USE A DIGITAL VOLT METER SET TO 12 VOLTS. ATTACH ONE TEST LEAD TO THE NEGATIVE BATTERY POST AND INSERT THE OTHER TEST LEAD INTO THE RADIATOR COOLANT, MAKING SURE THE LEAD DOES NOT TOUCH THE FILLER NECK OR CORE. ANY VOLTAGE READING OVER 0.3 VOLTS INDICATES THAT STRAY CURRENT IS FINDING ITS WAY INTO THE COOLANT. ELECTROLYSIS IS OFTEN AN INTERMITTENT CONDITION THAT OCCURS WHEN A DEVICE OR ACCESSORY THAT IS MOUNTED TO THE RADIATOR IS ENERGIZED. THIS TYPE OF CURRENT COULD BE CAUSED FROM A POORLY GROUNDED COOLING FAN OR SOME OTHER ACCESSORY AND CAN BE CHECKED BY WATCHING THE VOLT METER AND TURNING ON AND OFF VARIOUS ACCESSORIES OR ENGAGE THE STARTER MOTOR." ******************* Now electrolysis can be a very good thing, but it can also be a very bad thing. Especially, it would seem, in automotive cooling systems. I looked around, but didn't find much info for the layman. Does anyone here have any interesting/informative info on this that is not on an engineering level? Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 The TSB excluded a lot of details for the curious mind. My eyes did a double take on looking for a voltage in the range of 0.3V but using the 12V range on the meter. Another double take was on possible voltage being developed by a poorly grounded cooling fan or other accessory. Most cars I have looked at lately, the fans and radiator are isolated from the engine by rubber (hoses). And, ~~90% of the electrical equipment on a modern car uses a dedicated ground wire rather than a metal to metal chassis attach point. Alternator and starter motor are the obvious exceptions. I can't find the article (again), but I do remember our Guru commenting that he did not have a lot of faith in the accuracy of the coolant voltage test. Who knows what a 'scope might reveal? Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 This certainly is not a new test. One of my friends has been using it for over 40 years to determine the condition of coolant. Not that I think it will tell you much or fix any current (no pun intended) problems. I think the guru was perfectly correct in questioning the value of this test. A 'scope might reveal some type of AC impulses or some digital signal, but again , I don't think it would reveal anything of practical value. Now if the manual had said .0XX volts indicates a 50% mixture, THAT would be worthwhile! I'll try to see just how the test was used many years ago. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 This certainly is not a new test. One of my friends has been using it for over 40 years 40 years?!? Musta been a Simpson 260. One or both of us is showing his age. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 I still mourn my last 260. If that meter had a space age plastic case, I would still be using it. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I still mourn my last 260. If that meter had a space age plastic case, I would still be using it. Still got mine. Eat your heart out! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I still have my Simpson 260, too, but I have used it only two or thee times since I got my Fluke 77, and then only when I needed two meters. Every time some friend of mine got aholt of my Simpson 260 they managed to blow it by putting voltage on it on a low ohms scale, so I had to lock it up and watch it like a hawk when it was out. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I still have my Simpson 260, too, but I have used it only two or thee times since I got my Fluke 77, and then only when I needed two meters. Every time some friend of mine got aholt of my Simpson 260 they managed to blow it by putting voltage on it on a low ohms scale, so I had to lock it up and watch it like a hawk when it was out. Understood!!! It's likely been a couple of years since I've had to do a peak/null adjustment. That's the only use I have for the 260. Otherwise, today's digital meters are vastly superior (I'm assuming true rms etc.). I can't recall how many times I repaired that low ohms scale after others had "had at" my 260. Handheld 'scope/meters are grand; life just gets better. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I can't find the article (again), but I do remember our Guru commenting that he did not have a lot of faith in the accuracy of the coolant voltage test. I too remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 40 years?!? Musta been a Simpson 260. One or both of us is showing his age. I still have two! The "rolltop" front no longer works on one, but the other is perfect! I don't even think the 260's were around 40 years ago were they? One thing for sure, there was no digital readout on whatever he was using.................and he didn't report his findings with a cell phone either! Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I was using Simpson 260s in the mid 1960s.... Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I have the 50KV Probe! Nnah, nnah. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I think I had one of these....25 years ago. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 HV probe indeed!! There are but two CRT devices remaining in my home and I doubt if power supply components are even available for either one of them. I have been using digital Flukes and one digital Greenlee for years. Digitals do the job most of the time; but, the display is too slow for voltage checking on a turn signal wire for example. That is just one example where an analog display cannot be beat. Warren has motivated me to revise my 'wishlist'. When one of my daughters has to ask "where can I buy a 260-8?", I'll have the phone number of the local distributor ready. Thanks for the non-Cadillac stroll down memory lane. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick7997 Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 The Simpson Meter... Still have mine, in near mint condition.... I admit I haven't used it in awhile.... This is funny, half the people on here probably have no idea what we're talking about, and the other half are going "Ohhh yeeaaahhhh, I remember that!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 HV probe indeed!! There are but two CRT devices remaining in my home and I doubt if power supply components are even available for either one of them. My 34" 16:9 HD Monitor is CRT based and about a year old. While LCD and Plasma displays have made great strides, you still can't beat "glass." Yet. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 HV probe indeed!! There are but two CRT devices remaining in my home and I doubt if power supply components are even available for either one of them. My 34" 16:9 HD Monitor is CRT based and about a year old. While LCD and Plasma displays have made great strides, you still can't beat "glass." Yet. Regards, Warren I'll bet you prefer vacuum tube audio also Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted December 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 I'll bet you prefer vacuum tube audio also Sorry Jim, I somehow missed your last post in this thread. No, I am not a glass audiophile. I think those folk are NUTS! If you like glass audio, simply take a really good solid state amp and add some 60Hz hum, a little treble loss and a dash of bass roll-off and voila! Glass audio. And I don't want to hear about harmonics. Incomming! Duck! Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted December 22, 2006 Report Share Posted December 22, 2006 I agree; you are preaching to the choir. However, it's hard to overlook the one advantage of tube type amplifiers; there is no need for any other heat source in the room this time of the year. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 I finally remembered to ask my friend about this. He added that the tester was from Wynn's and was part of a kit intended to recycle antifreeze. The meter probably read in millivolts, and had a propriatary scale. I suppose it was marketed as a money maker for the garage at that time, much like today's "Flush Machines". The purpose of the tester was to determine the acidity of the used antifeeze. NOT by testing PH mind you, but rather conductivity. The theory seemed to revolve around the "fact" that the more acidic the coolant, the more current it would conduct. The garage was then sold an assortment of chemicals that were added to the old mixture based on this reading, which supposedly readjusted the coolant additive levels back to new. After that, the mixture could be re-sold to the next guy in line and Viola, a profit was made! Of course the old antifreeze was filtered and cleaned up a bit by the machine so it would look new going in to the next vehicle. This could be one of the reasons that today's flush machines aren't well accepted. It could also have been driven by the economics of the time. I remember the Great Antifreeze Shortage, which occurred shortly after the Great Fuel Shortage of 1975, it wasn't pretty I assure you. The kits and testers can still be found today. More in the "Green Sheet" or Flea Markets than in an automotive supply house. In the end, there is nothing of value to the modern car owner trying to maintain his vehicle, but if somebody was to start an experiment using a voltmeter................................ Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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