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Fuel Injector Cleaner


BodybyFisher

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This is interesting, I just found this, we are basically against fuel injector cleaner due to the possibility of damaging the windings in the fuel pump and injectors. Today I found this from GM:

Info -Maintenance Cleaning of Fuel Injectors #04-06-04-051A - (Sep 3, 2004)

Maintenance Cleaning of Fuel Injectors

2005 and Prior All General Motors Passenger Cars and Trucks

2003-2005 HUMMER H2

This bulletin is being revised to add text for clarification. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-051 (Section 06 -- Engine/Propulsion System).

General Motors is aware that some companies are marketing tools, equipment and programs to support fuel injector cleaning as a preventative maintenance procedure. General Motors does not endorse, support or acknowledge the need for fuel injector cleaning as a preventative maintenance procedure. Fuel injector cleaning is approved only when performed as directed by a published GM driveability or DTC diagnostic service procedure.

Due to variation in fuel quality in different areas of the country, the only preventative maintenance currently endorsed by GM regarding its gasoline engine fuel systems is the addition of GM Fuel System Treatment, P/N 12345104 (in Canada, 89020804), added to a tank of fuel at each oil change. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 03-06-04-030A for proper cleaning instructions.

Important

The addition of GM Fuel System Treatment should not be necessary for those customers who exclusively use Top Tier Detergent Gasolines only. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-047A.

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The fuel treatment referred to in the bulletin is "GM Fuel System Treatment." Apparently GM has its own formulation. The Guru did not have any negative comments about a GM recommended fuel treatment. As you know his comments were with respect to generic fuel treatments on the market, which have been known to cause fuel pump failure.

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Agreed, it was directed toward the STP types, but i didn't realize there was a cleaner that was OK with GM....

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Agreed, it was directed toward the STP types, but i didn't realize there was a cleaner that was OK with GM....

I'm pretty sure the Guru mentioned GM's product as being the only recommended fuel system cleaner and mentioned the conditions under which it's could be used. I think you just forgot. :huh::lol: Or maybe I'm the one hallucinating. :blink::lol:

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You are probably right, its just that the tide against injector cleaner was so strong, that I probably missed that GM actually sanctioned a cleaner..

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

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It is highly UN-likely that GM makes its own injector cleaner. They make cars, not additives. They may re-package it, test it, approve it, market it, and many other things (including increase the price), but probably not make it. Just like they don't make motor oil, transmission fluid, grease, etc.

The real trick is to find out exactly what it is and buy it at the local parts store.

Most likely, in the USA anyway, gasoline contains enough additives to keep your injectors fairly clean, particularly if you use name brand products with a good reputation. I never did buy into the "Top Tier Gasoline" thing as you know. It is not a well defined standard, (it's not a standard at all for that matter) nor is it verified by the EPA to my knowledge. It falls into the "marketing hype" category for me.

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

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This extra step of adding a bottle of GM fuel system cleaner isn't likely to be harmful in any respect. Seeing how the newer Caddys have an oil change interval of about a year (6 months for me - 12,700 miles), it's a long stretch between oil changes.

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Important

The addition of GM Fuel System Treatment should not be necessary for those customers who exclusively use Top Tier Detergent Gasolines only. Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-047A.

It seems to me that a decent preventative maintenance technique, or a technique for minor problems, is simply to put a tank of 91/92/93 octane in it and drive at least a quarter-tank of it out in a 65 mph zone. I have "fixed" many a car that way over the years. Even if you don't feel that you have a driveabilty problem, you might try it if you run 87 octane all the time and see what you think after you refill it with 87 octane.

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The point of my thread was that, historically we have been against Fuel Injector Cleaner, I accidently found this information where GM had sactioned the use of it at every oil change and the thought was new to me as far as I was concerned. While MAC's memory is probably correct, the volume from the anti-injector cleaner crowd (including myself) was so loud, I don't think I ever heard that there was a GM sanctioned cleaner.. Otherwise, I might have recommended it to Fred with his injector problems.

It looks like Chevron with Techron iand Quiktrip s the way to go when you can find it. I have always recommended Techron as long as it was driven out quickly.

Here is information on the Top Tier Gas, note that the date is 2004:

****************************************************************************

Info - Top Tier Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power, Performance, Stall Concerns) #04-06-04-047A - (Aug 31, 2004)

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power, Performance, Stall Concerns)

2005 and Prior All General Motors Passenger Cars and Trucks (U.S. Only)

2003-2005 HUMMER H2

This bulletin is being revised to identify the gasoline brands that currently meet the Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-047 (Section 06 - Engine).

A new class of gasoline, called Top Tier Detergent Gasoline, will be appearing at retail stations of some fuel marketers. This gasoline meets detergency standards developed by four automotive companies. A description of the concept and benefits of Top Tier is provided in the following question and answer section.

What is Top Tier Detergent Gasoline?

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline is a new class of gasoline with enhanced detergency. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards developed by four automotive companies that exceed the detergent requirements imposed by the EPA.

Who developed Top Tier Detergent Gasoline standards?

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline standards were developed by four automotive companies: BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota.

Why was Top Tier Detergent Gasoline developed?

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline was developed to increase the level of detergent additive in gasoline. The EPA requires that all gasoline sold in the U.S. contain a detergent additive. However, the requirement is minimal and in many cases, is not sufficient to keep engines clean. In order to meet Top Tier Detergent Gasoline standards, a higher level of detergent is needed than what is required by the EPA. Also, Top Tier was developed to give fuel marketers the opportunity to differentiate their product.

Why did the four automotive companies join together to develop Top Tier?

All four corporations recognized the benefits to both the vehicle and the consumer. Also, joining together emphasized that low detergency is an issue of concern to several automotive companies.

What are the benefits of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline?

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline will help keep engines cleaner than gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" set by the EPA. Clean engines help provide optimal fuel economy and performance and reduced emissions. Also, use of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline will help reduce deposit related concerns.

Who should use Top Tier Detergent Gasoline?

All vehicles will benefit from using Top Tier Detergent Gasoline over gasoline containing the "Lowest Additive Concentration" set by the EPA. Those vehicles that have experienced deposit related concerns may especially benefit from use of Top Tier Detergent Gasoline.

Where can Top Tier Detergent Gasoline be purchased?

The Top Tier program began on May 3, 2004. Some fuel marketers have already joined and have introduced Top Tier Detergent Gasoline. This is a voluntary program and not all fuel marketers will offer this product. Once fuel marketers make public announcements, they will appear on a list of brands that meet the Top Tier standards.

Gasoline Brands That Currently Meet Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards

As of August 15, 2004, the following gasoline brands meet the Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards:

Chevron, Chevron has markets in 29 states in the West, Southwest and South, as well as in Alaska and Hawaii. ALL grades of Chevron with Techron gasoline meet Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standards.

QuikTrip (not to be confused with Kwik Trip) QuikTrip operates convenience stores and travel centers in a number of metropolitan areas

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

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I just did a search at Chevron.com and did not find a station within 25 miles of me..

http://www.chevron.com/products/locator/

They also are involved with Texaco who also has the Techron additive. I did a search under Texaco, none within 25 miles.

http://www.texaco.com/findatexaco/

(notice on the left side a link "How to find gasoline with Techron") I wonder why the separate search function to find Techron gas unless it's that all Texaco gas does not contain Techron.. :unsure:

Since I neither have a Chevron or Texaco near me, it looks like I will be adding a half of a bottle of Techron at each oil change...

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I just did a search at Chevron.com and did not find a station within 25 miles of me..

http://www.chevron.com/products/locator/

They also are involved with Texaco who also has the Techron additive. I did a search under Texaco, none within 25 miles.

http://www.texaco.com/findatexaco/

(notice on the left side a link "How to find gasoline with Techron") I wonder why the separate search function to find Techron gas unless it's that all Texaco gas does not contain Techron.. :unsure:

Since I neither have a Chevron or Texaco near me, it looks like I will be adding a half of a bottle of Techron at each oil change...

Do you have a Mobil/Exxon Station near you? They have chosen not to be part of Top Tier Gas but say that their fuel would pass with flying colors. Both caddy's the green household has had used Mobil Super+ and never had fuel related problems. (The first caddy was only "scraped" because it was totaled in a front end collision).

Recently I've been using the Northeast exclusive fuel company, Sunoco, who also has chosen not to be part of top tier, they have 4 grades of gasoline, so I get it on "super Tuesday" for 10 cents off 91, or ultra Wednesday, for 10 cents off 93 or 94 octane depending on station.

I'm on the fence about the whole top tier thing, but it gives a good guide line for fuel to get on trips when I don't see any familiar stations.

Mobil on Top Tier Gasoline:

Also as of today this is the full list of companies agree to let their Fuel be tested and certified by Top Tier Gasoline:

QuikTrip

Chevron

Conoco

Phillips

76

Shell

Entec Stations

MFA Oil Company

Kwik Trip/Kwik Star

The Somerset Refinery, Inc.

Chevron-Canada

Aloha Petroleum

Tri-Par Oil Company

Shell-Canada

Texaco

Petro-Canada

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

Ford has also declined to back Top Tier Gasoline along with BP.

More on Mobil:

"Do your gasolines contain detergents?

All our gasolines contain effective detergent additives. While the EPA has required all gasolines marketed in the United States to contain detergents since 1995, our gasolines contain significantly more than the minimum dosages required to provide additional protection against fuel system deposits."

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/GFM/Produ...asoline_FAQ.asp

They main thing to understand is just meeting EPA standards is not enough, and really should be raised.

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2003 Seville - stock low mileage goodness!

2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG - Smaller supercharger pulley, Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Dyno tune, etc

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And now you see the point of my post. I think I'll drive to Hawaii and get some Aloha.

As you can see, the concept of "Top Teir" has never really taken off because there was no discernable benefit to the driver. The EPA standards appear to be "good enough" for most driving and most vehicle designs.

As far as I'm concerned, there are many brands of gasoline that would "make the list" if they chose to submit their samples for testing. And much like API certification for motor oil, paying your money (this may not be a FREE certification) does not always mean that the consumer is getting the best product for their money.

I have also been in the gasoline business for over 30 years. There are many more things to consider than the detergency levels of the fuel. Narrowing your definition of quality to this single parameter would not be realistic.

I remember the early posts from the guru. I believe the gist of his remarks were to deter people from adding too many/too much gasoline additives to their fuel. Some wanted to add a can at every fillup, others wanted to add a gallon, just so their engine would be "perfect" in every way.

Most people will never know that Marathon gasoline, in it's various brands, uses Techron, but they can't say that because Techron is a trade name owned by Chevron. Now Marathon BRAND stations use a very similar additive, with additive levels certified by STP as exceeding EPA specs. Does it meet "Top Teir" specs? Probably. Did they choose to pay the money for "certification" or just pass the benefits on to the consumer without a lot of marketing hype?

You decide: http://www.marathonpetroleum.com/

Look at "NEW STP Formulated Gasoline" for an example of what I'm saying.

It's a jungle out there!

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

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It's interesting that GM has promoted this top-tier concept then. I just assumed that they were pushing you to gasoline that had Techron in it given that in 2004, Chevron was the only major gasoline supplier on the list.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

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BBF -- I think that it's interesting that you put a concrete definition of what you mean by "top-tier gasoline." I've known for years that the top grade of gas for any given station or brand is better at keeping your engine clean. I've also known that cetrain brands were not as good as others, and that some of them might give you ping protection but were no better (or worse) that other brands' regular unleaded for keeping your engine clean. Also, since about 1995, I've noticed that the worst of them need not be totally avoided anymore. You've given me quite an education as to just exaclty what has been going on.

I normally use a Citgo that I have picked out as having the best prices for 93 octane among those service stations that are reasonably accessible. I'll make a point of filling up on Exxon or one of the listed Top Tier Retailers once in a while, just in case.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Well Jim, interestingly enough, GM provided that concrete definition. They may have updated that since 2004 I don't know. I think that EGreen's post was helpful in expanding the top-tier listing. On the other hand, JohnnyG feels all of this is bunk which may be true given his extensive gasoline experience.

All I know is that this confirms to me that Techron (in the right concentration whatever that might be) is not damaging to your fuel system as evidenced by GM's quick nod of Chevron..

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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All I know is that this confirms to me that Techron (in the right concentration whatever that might be) is not damaging to your fuel system as evidenced by GM's quick nod of Chevron..

I want to add one thing. The "Techron" that you buy at the AZ/PEPBOYS/Advanced or wherever, is a much diluted version of the stuff that is added in at the distribution point. The appropriate question might be "Is the diluent harmful to the fuel system?" You did qualify your statement with "in the proper concentration" and the fact is we will NEVER know what that proper concentration is at the consumer level. Go strictly by GM's recomendations, with GM additives, and you can't go wrong.

I can also assure you that buying quality gasoline from a company that has a reputation to uphold is a good decision. I think we can ignore the "Top Tier" thing for now.

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

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I would say that the safest thing to do is to run out a tank of top-tier gasoline or equivalent, at 45 mph or higher -- the higher the better up to 55 mph or so. If that doesn't do it, and you can't identify issues such as fuel filter, water in the gas (which top tier gas also will help with, in my experience), then the FSM-recommended procedures for cleaning the fuel system are the way to go. The injector cleaning process isn't in the FSM but BodybyFisher has the Service Bulletin. Basically you use a "special tool" in place of the tank and fuel pump by connecting it to the fuel rail, filling it with a solution of gasoline and injector cleaner and pressurizing it with shop air to 45 psi, then letting the engine run it out at idle -- twice.

Someone once used an additive to the gas tank but ran it out in a couple of hours and re-filled. I'm not sure whether this is a significant risk to the fuel pump so I'm not going to recommend it in writing.

If anyone can identify the GM recommended gas tank additive, that might be a better way or an improvement, with the FSM cleaning procedures as a last resort.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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GM Fuel System Treatment, P/N 12345104 (in Canada, 89020804)

I found this thread to be interesting, the discussion is similar to ours:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=404172

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Looking at the hazardous ingredients lists, the active ingredients are methyl-, dimethyl-, and trimethyl-benzene and these things that appear on the GM sheet:

  • CAS 064742478, 40% to 60%, petroleum distillates, hydrotreated light
  • CAS 989922746, up to 10%, "Additives"
  • CAS 989958690, 32% to 42%, polyether amine
Note that Xylene is dimethyl-benzene, and mesitylene is trimethyl-benzene without the isomers specified, as 1,2,4-trimethyl-benzene, which may be up to 10% of the GM product. The rest is, more or less, naphtha.

I would venture to say that the GM product is not Techron but is formulated to GM specifications by Chevron and could easily be second-sourced, but that Techron is similar. My feeling is that if I were driven to go and buy something like that to solve a problem, I would pay a little extra and get the GM product and follow instructions to the letter. For preventive maintenance or casual use, Techron seems to be a reasonable approximation, and the MSDS gives no significant reason to believe that it would be harmful to fuel systems that tolerate the GM product.

To make recommendations to others, sight unseen – that is, here on this forum or elsewhere as a written post – I would recommend the GM product. If asked about Techron, I would say that it seems similar but its use is the decision of the consumer.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I think the key is simply not overdoing any additive.

The key is having a full tank of gas if your gonna use any of these additives, that way it gently applies it to the system, after all when your adding any additive your adding to the additives that are already in the fuel and your just trying to "catchup" on what could be neglect.

The Green's Machines

1998 Deville - high mileage, keeps on going, custom cat-back exhaust

2003 Seville - stock low mileage goodness!

2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG - Smaller supercharger pulley, Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Dyno tune, etc

1998 Firebird Formula - 408 LQ9 Stroker motor swap and all sorts of go fast stuff

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EGreen has a good point. I've never had a problem because I have run the highest octane than I can get in all my cars and motorcycles since I discoverred that you can time the spark to get better performance and fuel mileage, and that the increase in fuel mileage approxamtely pays for the premium gas. Apparently I may be pushing my luck in the last few years of higher gas prices by going to Citgo, or whoever has the lowest price on premium gas that week.

As for preventive maintenance, I think it may be more convenient and less expensive than buying a can of cleaner at the dealer to fill up on Exxon or a certified Top-Tier gasoline every once in a while. On the other hand, if I notice a hesitation or miss or whatever, I'm gettng GM Fuel System Treatment, P/N 12345104 (in Canada, 89020804), and using it with the right amount of fuel within the guidlines on the product instructions.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Thanks, no wonder I couldn't find it, see last product on this page (same bottle shape as Techron HMMMMMMMMM :lol:)

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/PartsAccessori...areProducts.jsp

Looking at the hazardous ingredients lists, the active ingredients are methyl-, dimethyl-, and trimethyl-benzene and these things that appear on the GM sheet:

  • CAS 064742478, 40% to 60%, petroleum distillates, hydrotreated light
  • CAS 989922746, up to 10%, "Additives"
  • CAS 989958690, 32% to 42%, polyether amine
Note that Xylene is dimethyl-benzene, and mesitylene is trimethyl-benzene without the isomers specified, as 1,2,4-trimethyl-benzene, which may be up to 10% of the GM product. The rest is, more or less, naphtha.

I would venture to say that the GM product is not Techron but is formulated to GM specifications by Chevron and could easily be second-sourced, but that Techron is similar. My feeling is that if I were driven to go and buy something like that to solve a problem, I would pay a little extra and get the GM product and follow instructions to the letter. For preventive maintenance or casual use, Techron seems to be a reasonable approximation, and the MSDS gives no significant reason to believe that it would be harmful to fuel systems that tolerate the GM product.

To make recommendations to others, sight unseen – that is, here on this forum or elsewhere as a written post – I would recommend the GM product. If asked about Techron, I would say that it seems similar but its use is the decision of the consumer.

Thanks for the analysis Jim

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I have a nice offer that I'd like to make to CadyInfo members, but can't seem to post a picture. Is 148 KB too big?

Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed.

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