pwilluttley Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I'm trying to track down a nagging problem. My 91 seville 4.9L suffers from sudden engine quiting syndrome. Recently when running, the engine would suddenly quit. It would crank, but not start again until after it set a while. I pulled the error codes: E091 current E012 current E052 history E053 history I replaced the neutral safety switch and put in a brand new distributor. Still though, every once in a while the engine will die. Sometimes immediately after I start it in the morning when the engine is still cold. When it dies, the funny thing is that the radiator fan motor will kick on and run as long as I have the key on. As soon as the radiator fan motor shuts off, the car will start. When the engine dies, I'm still getting a E091 code even though I replaced the neutral safety switch. I'm sure I have it adjusted correctly because the car will always crank but just not start. Also, I still get an occasional E012 code? Can anyone give me a direction as to what to check or look for? Is there something else that might be causing the engine to die producing these fault codes? CAM shaft sensor - bad grounds? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?act...ost&id=2599 P091 (E091) PRNDL Switch Problem (transaxle range switch problem) I think that is very minor The E012 stalled me out the other day, It's P012 (E012) ... No Distributor Signal I concluded that the ignition module was bad I amazed myself by being right First thing to do is play with the wires and connectors in case they've come loose or some such of a thing Are you that guy from Newhart? P052 (E052) ......................... PCM Memory Reset P053 (E053) ........... Distributor Signal Interrupt MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwilluttley Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. I've inspected the connectors and everything looks okay. I haven't checked the wiring from them thoroughly, I will do that. If it were the distributor, which obviously there is some sort of problem because of the E012 code,- I can't understand why when the engine dies, the radiator fan motor immediately kicks on - even when he engine is cold. Also, when it dies sometime I have the E012 code and sometimes not, but I always have the E091 code after the motor dies. Like I mentioned, once the radiator fans shuts off, the engine starts right up. Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange. Any other ideas? Could it be a faulty temperature sensor? Nope, I'm not that guy from Newhart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. I've inspected the connectors and everything looks okay. I haven't checked the wiring from them thoroughly, I will do that. If it were the distributor, which obviously there is some sort of problem because of the E012 code,- I can't understand why when the engine dies, the radiator fan motor immediately kicks on - even when he engine is cold. Also, when it dies sometime I have the E012 code and sometimes not, but I always have the E091 code after the motor dies. Like I mentioned, once the radiator fans shuts off, the engine starts right up. Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange. Any other ideas? Could it be a faulty temperature sensor? Nope, I'm not that guy from Newhart. I would disconnect the temp. sensor and see what ahppens. Might be a bad ECM as well. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwilluttley Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. I've inspected the connectors and everything looks okay. I haven't checked the wiring from them thoroughly, I will do that. If it were the distributor, which obviously there is some sort of problem because of the E012 code,- I can't understand why when the engine dies, the radiator fan motor immediately kicks on - even when he engine is cold. Also, when it dies sometime I have the E012 code and sometimes not, but I always have the E091 code after the motor dies. Like I mentioned, once the radiator fans shuts off, the engine starts right up. Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange. Any other ideas? Could it be a faulty temperature sensor? Nope, I'm not that guy from Newhart. I would disconnect the temp. sensor and see what ahppens. Might be a bad ECM as well. Tried disconnecting the temp sensor to no avail. This morning I turned the key ON and the fan radiator fan motor immediately kicked on - motor would crank but not start. I waited about 5 minutes with the key ON and as soon as the fan motor shut off, the motor started. It was about 40 degrees in the garage. This is driving me nuts! Any more ideas? What about a MAP sensor? What is it? Could it be the problem? It just seems like it's something electrical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. I've inspected the connectors and everything looks okay. I haven't checked the wiring from them thoroughly, I will do that. If it were the distributor, which obviously there is some sort of problem because of the E012 code,- I can't understand why when the engine dies, the radiator fan motor immediately kicks on - even when he engine is cold. Also, when it dies sometime I have the E012 code and sometimes not, but I always have the E091 code after the motor dies. Like I mentioned, once the radiator fans shuts off, the engine starts right up. Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange. Any other ideas? Could it be a faulty temperature sensor? Nope, I'm not that guy from Newhart. I would disconnect the temp. sensor and see what ahppens. Might be a bad ECM as well. Tried disconnecting the temp sensor to no avail. This morning I turned the key ON and the fan radiator fan motor immediately kicked on - motor would crank but not start. I waited about 5 minutes with the key ON and as soon as the fan motor shut off, the motor started. It was about 40 degrees in the garage. This is driving me nuts! Any more ideas? What about a MAP sensor? What is it? Could it be the problem? It just seems like it's something electrical. Can a relay be shorted closed? Did you try fooling with the fan relays? MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwilluttley Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. I've inspected the connectors and everything looks okay. I haven't checked the wiring from them thoroughly, I will do that. If it were the distributor, which obviously there is some sort of problem because of the E012 code,- I can't understand why when the engine dies, the radiator fan motor immediately kicks on - even when he engine is cold. Also, when it dies sometime I have the E012 code and sometimes not, but I always have the E091 code after the motor dies. Like I mentioned, once the radiator fans shuts off, the engine starts right up. Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange. Any other ideas? Could it be a faulty temperature sensor? Nope, I'm not that guy from Newhart. I would disconnect the temp. sensor and see what ahppens. Might be a bad ECM as well. Tried disconnecting the temp sensor to no avail. This morning I turned the key ON and the fan radiator fan motor immediately kicked on - motor would crank but not start. I waited about 5 minutes with the key ON and as soon as the fan motor shut off, the motor started. It was about 40 degrees in the garage. This is driving me nuts! Any more ideas? What about a MAP sensor? What is it? Could it be the problem? It just seems like it's something electrical. Can a relay be shorted closed? Did you try fooling with the fan relays? I hadn't thought of that - I will check into it. Even if I had a stuck fan relay, do you think that would cause the engine to not start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. I've inspected the connectors and everything looks okay. I haven't checked the wiring from them thoroughly, I will do that. If it were the distributor, which obviously there is some sort of problem because of the E012 code,- I can't understand why when the engine dies, the radiator fan motor immediately kicks on - even when he engine is cold. Also, when it dies sometime I have the E012 code and sometimes not, but I always have the E091 code after the motor dies. Like I mentioned, once the radiator fans shuts off, the engine starts right up. Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange. Any other ideas? Could it be a faulty temperature sensor? Nope, I'm not that guy from Newhart. I would disconnect the temp. sensor and see what ahppens. Might be a bad ECM as well. Tried disconnecting the temp sensor to no avail. This morning I turned the key ON and the fan radiator fan motor immediately kicked on - motor would crank but not start. I waited about 5 minutes with the key ON and as soon as the fan motor shut off, the motor started. It was about 40 degrees in the garage. This is driving me nuts! Any more ideas? What about a MAP sensor? What is it? Could it be the problem? It just seems like it's something electrical. Can a relay be shorted closed? Did you try fooling with the fan relays? I hadn't thought of that - I will check into it. Even if I had a stuck fan relay, do you think that would cause the engine to not start? I have no idea of why it would cause a no start... that is odd as heck Wait maybe the car thinks it is overheated and shuts itself off I had a Caddy do that once What does the coolant temp readout say? I don't think there is a seperate coolant temp sensor for the DIC and for the Fans "Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange." That is odd as heck, I didn't know the car would die out for that. The 091, when it comes up, do you see squares around ALL of the PRND321 ? I've had my shifter go out of adjustment or some of a thing before and do that but I don't think it killed the motor, That 012 coming up is what needs to be tracked down, MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwilluttley Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. I've inspected the connectors and everything looks okay. I haven't checked the wiring from them thoroughly, I will do that. If it were the distributor, which obviously there is some sort of problem because of the E012 code,- I can't understand why when the engine dies, the radiator fan motor immediately kicks on - even when he engine is cold. Also, when it dies sometime I have the E012 code and sometimes not, but I always have the E091 code after the motor dies. Like I mentioned, once the radiator fans shuts off, the engine starts right up. Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange. Any other ideas? Could it be a faulty temperature sensor? Nope, I'm not that guy from Newhart. I would disconnect the temp. sensor and see what ahppens. Might be a bad ECM as well. Tried disconnecting the temp sensor to no avail. This morning I turned the key ON and the fan radiator fan motor immediately kicked on - motor would crank but not start. I waited about 5 minutes with the key ON and as soon as the fan motor shut off, the motor started. It was about 40 degrees in the garage. This is driving me nuts! Any more ideas? What about a MAP sensor? What is it? Could it be the problem? It just seems like it's something electrical. Can a relay be shorted closed? Did you try fooling with the fan relays? I hadn't thought of that - I will check into it. Even if I had a stuck fan relay, do you think that would cause the engine to not start? I have no idea of why it would cause a no start... that is odd as heck Wait maybe the car thinks it is overheated and shuts itself off I had a Caddy do that once What does the coolant temp readout say? I don't think there is a seperate coolant temp sensor for the DIC and for the Fans "Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange." That is odd as heck, I didn't know the car would die out for that. The 091, when it comes up, do you see squares around ALL of the PRND321 ? I've had my shifter go out of adjustment or some of a thing before and do that but I don't think it killed the motor, That 012 coming up is what needs to be tracked down, Exactly - as soon as the motor dies, the DIC immediately will say "gear select problem" and all of the squares around PRND321 are illuminated. Also, as soon as this happens the radiator fan motor immediately runs. After a few minutes, the fan motor will quit, ALL of the PRND321 squares go back to normal and the car takes right off. Also, the coolant temperature shown on the DIC never reads hot. Do you think I might have a flaky ECM? I wondered about that, but my problem is very consistent. I would think that I would have erratic problems if the ECM was going south. I've also tried pulling connectors at the distributor while running to see if I could produce the same error - but while it kills the motor, it does not duplicate the fan motor kicking on and the "gear select problem" message on the DIC. I agree I don't think a gear shifter out of adjustment would cause the motor to stop. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. It's a great car, only 72,000 miles. I sure would like to track this problem down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. I've inspected the connectors and everything looks okay. I haven't checked the wiring from them thoroughly, I will do that. If it were the distributor, which obviously there is some sort of problem because of the E012 code,- I can't understand why when the engine dies, the radiator fan motor immediately kicks on - even when he engine is cold. Also, when it dies sometime I have the E012 code and sometimes not, but I always have the E091 code after the motor dies. Like I mentioned, once the radiator fans shuts off, the engine starts right up. Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange. Any other ideas? Could it be a faulty temperature sensor? Nope, I'm not that guy from Newhart. I would disconnect the temp. sensor and see what ahppens. Might be a bad ECM as well. Tried disconnecting the temp sensor to no avail. This morning I turned the key ON and the fan radiator fan motor immediately kicked on - motor would crank but not start. I waited about 5 minutes with the key ON and as soon as the fan motor shut off, the motor started. It was about 40 degrees in the garage. This is driving me nuts! Any more ideas? What about a MAP sensor? What is it? Could it be the problem? It just seems like it's something electrical. Can a relay be shorted closed? Did you try fooling with the fan relays? I hadn't thought of that - I will check into it. Even if I had a stuck fan relay, do you think that would cause the engine to not start? I have no idea of why it would cause a no start... that is odd as heck Wait maybe the car thinks it is overheated and shuts itself off I had a Caddy do that once What does the coolant temp readout say? I don't think there is a seperate coolant temp sensor for the DIC and for the Fans "Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange." That is odd as heck, I didn't know the car would die out for that. The 091, when it comes up, do you see squares around ALL of the PRND321 ? I've had my shifter go out of adjustment or some of a thing before and do that but I don't think it killed the motor, That 012 coming up is what needs to be tracked down, Exactly - as soon as the motor dies, the DIC immediately will say "gear select problem" and all of the squares around PRND321 are illuminated. Also, as soon as this happens the radiator fan motor immediately runs. After a few minutes, the fan motor will quit, ALL of the PRND321 squares go back to normal and the car takes right off. Also, the coolant temperature shown on the DIC never reads hot. Do you think I might have a flaky ECM? I wondered about that, but my problem is very consistent. I would think that I would have erratic problems if the ECM was going south. I've also tried pulling connectors at the distributor while running to see if I could produce the same error - but while it kills the motor, it does not duplicate the fan motor kicking on and the "gear select problem" message on the DIC. I agree I don't think a gear shifter out of adjustment would cause the motor to stop. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. It's a great car, only 72,000 miles. I sure would like to track this problem down. First of all how much do you want for the car and what color is it.. I love the 91 Seville Secondly, that sure is odd- I know that when I unhook the CCDIC the blower will run by default Now maybe when this problem happens something defaults and causes the motor fan to run Far fetched... maybe MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwilluttley Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. I've inspected the connectors and everything looks okay. I haven't checked the wiring from them thoroughly, I will do that. If it were the distributor, which obviously there is some sort of problem because of the E012 code,- I can't understand why when the engine dies, the radiator fan motor immediately kicks on - even when he engine is cold. Also, when it dies sometime I have the E012 code and sometimes not, but I always have the E091 code after the motor dies. Like I mentioned, once the radiator fans shuts off, the engine starts right up. Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange. Any other ideas? Could it be a faulty temperature sensor? Nope, I'm not that guy from Newhart. I would disconnect the temp. sensor and see what ahppens. Might be a bad ECM as well. Tried disconnecting the temp sensor to no avail. This morning I turned the key ON and the fan radiator fan motor immediately kicked on - motor would crank but not start. I waited about 5 minutes with the key ON and as soon as the fan motor shut off, the motor started. It was about 40 degrees in the garage. This is driving me nuts! Any more ideas? What about a MAP sensor? What is it? Could it be the problem? It just seems like it's something electrical. Can a relay be shorted closed? Did you try fooling with the fan relays? I hadn't thought of that - I will check into it. Even if I had a stuck fan relay, do you think that would cause the engine to not start? I have no idea of why it would cause a no start... that is odd as heck Wait maybe the car thinks it is overheated and shuts itself off I had a Caddy do that once What does the coolant temp readout say? I don't think there is a seperate coolant temp sensor for the DIC and for the Fans "Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange." That is odd as heck, I didn't know the car would die out for that. The 091, when it comes up, do you see squares around ALL of the PRND321 ? I've had my shifter go out of adjustment or some of a thing before and do that but I don't think it killed the motor, That 012 coming up is what needs to be tracked down, Exactly - as soon as the motor dies, the DIC immediately will say "gear select problem" and all of the squares around PRND321 are illuminated. Also, as soon as this happens the radiator fan motor immediately runs. After a few minutes, the fan motor will quit, ALL of the PRND321 squares go back to normal and the car takes right off. Also, the coolant temperature shown on the DIC never reads hot. Do you think I might have a flaky ECM? I wondered about that, but my problem is very consistent. I would think that I would have erratic problems if the ECM was going south. I've also tried pulling connectors at the distributor while running to see if I could produce the same error - but while it kills the motor, it does not duplicate the fan motor kicking on and the "gear select problem" message on the DIC. I agree I don't think a gear shifter out of adjustment would cause the motor to stop. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. It's a great car, only 72,000 miles. I sure would like to track this problem down. First of all how much do you want for the car and what color is it.. I love the 91 Seville Secondly, that sure is odd- I know that when I unhook the CCDIC the blower will run by default Now maybe when this problem happens something defaults and causes the motor fan to run Far fetched... maybe It's powder blue with chrome wheels...nice leather interior. It was my wife's grandmothers car. She bought it brand new. I'm the second owner. The car has always been garaged. I might be interested in selling it, but this mystery problem has got me bugged. What is the CCDIC, where is it and how do I unhook it? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Despite the distributor is new the wiring/connctors to it are old. Check them out. I've inspected the connectors and everything looks okay. I haven't checked the wiring from them thoroughly, I will do that. If it were the distributor, which obviously there is some sort of problem because of the E012 code,- I can't understand why when the engine dies, the radiator fan motor immediately kicks on - even when he engine is cold. Also, when it dies sometime I have the E012 code and sometimes not, but I always have the E091 code after the motor dies. Like I mentioned, once the radiator fans shuts off, the engine starts right up. Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange. Any other ideas? Could it be a faulty temperature sensor? Nope, I'm not that guy from Newhart. I would disconnect the temp. sensor and see what ahppens. Might be a bad ECM as well. Tried disconnecting the temp sensor to no avail. This morning I turned the key ON and the fan radiator fan motor immediately kicked on - motor would crank but not start. I waited about 5 minutes with the key ON and as soon as the fan motor shut off, the motor started. It was about 40 degrees in the garage. This is driving me nuts! Any more ideas? What about a MAP sensor? What is it? Could it be the problem? It just seems like it's something electrical. Can a relay be shorted closed? Did you try fooling with the fan relays? I hadn't thought of that - I will check into it. Even if I had a stuck fan relay, do you think that would cause the engine to not start? I have no idea of why it would cause a no start... that is odd as heck Wait maybe the car thinks it is overheated and shuts itself off I had a Caddy do that once What does the coolant temp readout say? I don't think there is a seperate coolant temp sensor for the DIC and for the Fans "Also, everytime the car dies, the DIC display says "gear select problem" and the E091 code comes back. This is so strange." That is odd as heck, I didn't know the car would die out for that. The 091, when it comes up, do you see squares around ALL of the PRND321 ? I've had my shifter go out of adjustment or some of a thing before and do that but I don't think it killed the motor, That 012 coming up is what needs to be tracked down, Exactly - as soon as the motor dies, the DIC immediately will say "gear select problem" and all of the squares around PRND321 are illuminated. Also, as soon as this happens the radiator fan motor immediately runs. After a few minutes, the fan motor will quit, ALL of the PRND321 squares go back to normal and the car takes right off. Also, the coolant temperature shown on the DIC never reads hot. Do you think I might have a flaky ECM? I wondered about that, but my problem is very consistent. I would think that I would have erratic problems if the ECM was going south. I've also tried pulling connectors at the distributor while running to see if I could produce the same error - but while it kills the motor, it does not duplicate the fan motor kicking on and the "gear select problem" message on the DIC. I agree I don't think a gear shifter out of adjustment would cause the motor to stop. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. It's a great car, only 72,000 miles. I sure would like to track this problem down. First of all how much do you want for the car and what color is it.. I love the 91 Seville Secondly, that sure is odd- I know that when I unhook the CCDIC the blower will run by default Now maybe when this problem happens something defaults and causes the motor fan to run Far fetched... maybe It's powder blue with chrome wheels...nice leather interior. It was my wife's grandmothers car. She bought it brand new. I'm the second owner. The car has always been garaged. I might be interested in selling it, but this mystery problem has got me bugged. What is the CCDIC, where is it and how do I unhook it? Thanks. No, no reason to unhook your CCDIC I just was saying what the heater/ac blower does when I unhook it... it stands for Climate Control / Driver Information Center... Here're some Cads I've owned. http://www.affordablecarats.com/gonebutnot.htm MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwilluttley Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Here're some Cads I've owned. http://www.affordablecarats.com/gonebutnot.htm This is the exact car that I have with the exception of the wheels. The wheels on my seville are chromed spoked. Also, maybe I misunderstood. I did not mean the AC/Heater blower, it is the radiator FAN that kicks on immediately after the engine quits and will continue to run with the key ON. As soon as the fan stops, the engine starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Right I was thinking maybe the ECM is having blackouts and maybe the engine fan defaults to on like the blower motor does.. I ain't sure, just a thought.. What do you want for your Seville? MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwilluttley Posted November 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 Right I was thinking maybe the ECM is having blackouts and maybe the engine fan defaults to on like the blower motor does.. I ain't sure, just a thought.. What do you want for your Seville? I'm sure that the problem is electrical and minor, but I'm tired of trying to track it down. I looked up the Kelly blue book on the car which is $3,070. For anyone who wants it - $2,000 and it's yours. Original Mileage : 77,000 A/C coolant is a little low - DIC displays message CCR system is not working - DIC displays "service CCR system" The interior head liner material is starting to come loose and needs some repair or replacement. Brand new radiator installed 2 years ago. I think the passenger side radiator tank leaks slightly, or it might be the lower hose. All leather, power everything - chromed wheels- powder blue color. The car has always been garaged since new. Let me know if you have questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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