The Fred Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 It flashed some sort of message on the DIC and I didn't quite catch it but, It has an E012 Current.... I tried to look it up on my sisters darned cell phone P012 (E012) .............. No Distributor Signal MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Look for a broken wire or unplugged cable from the distributor to the ignition. It's probalby one of the most common things that happen with older cars. This car probably has a magnetic pickup, with two wires carrying a relatively weak signal to electronics that use it to time the spark. Look for a loose connector. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Look for a broken wire or unplugged cable from the distributor to the ignition. It's probalby one of the most common things that happen with older cars. This car probably has a magnetic pickup, with two wires carrying a relatively weak signal to electronics that use it to time the spark. Look for a loose connector. Exactly what I've been looking for.. hard to get to the connectors might have to pull the air filter Thanks for the advice I hope you're right MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Well I've checked all of the connections.. And I don't think it has a relay or fuse, does it??? Could the module possibly be bad... ? Would that make it show this code? MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Look for a broken wire or unplugged cable from the distributor to the ignition. It's probalby one of the most common things that happen with older cars. This car probably has a magnetic pickup, with two wires carrying a relatively weak signal to electronics that use it to time the spark. Look for a loose connector. On older cars, the clips on the connectors break which can cause the wire to fall off. Look for the red power wire and make sure that it is connected to the distributor. This happened to me also. I ended up tie wrapping the connector so it can't fall off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Look for a broken wire or unplugged cable from the distributor to the ignition. It's probalby one of the most common things that happen with older cars. This car probably has a magnetic pickup, with two wires carrying a relatively weak signal to electronics that use it to time the spark. Look for a loose connector. On older cars, the clips on the connectors break which can cause the wire to fall off. Look for the red power wire and make sure that it is connected to the distributor. This happened to me also. I ended up tie wrapping the connector so it can't fall off. That's a good tip.. that has happened to me on three different Cadillacs, And I did the same thing with one of those platic zip ties, Well that doesn't seem to be the case, sigh, I am going to take the module down and have them check it.. Any more ideas I appreciate them - thanks guys MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Well, you can get your multimeter and check to see if there is power on the red wire at the distributor, that there is resistance but not an open or short across the distributor, and that the connector from the module shows the same resistances. If all of these are good you will have eliminated the pickup coil in the distributor and the cable -- but one of these is probably the problem. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 The module failed all five or six of the red light green light tests on the machine, Isn't that odd? I made sure he had it hooked in right and with the right cable.. The module fixed the no start and rid me of the 012, Now I have (E041) ..... No Cam Reference Signal from Ignition Control Module The ignition control module is what I just put in... *sigh* That doesn't make sense, The old one fails the tests, The new one fixes the problem.... and throws a code saying the new one is not working? What in the h*** that doesn't make sense at all, Not unless one of the connectors on the new module is bad, I made sure they were all on there real good and they're not broken.. Does it have one or two connectors that would cause this? MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I don't know what the red-light/gree-light tests are, but I presume that you have put it on a module tester like the dealers and bigger shops have. E012 and E041 are related, and at first glance look like exactly the same problem. It looks like something fried the ignition module. That's probably your real problem. I don't have anything on your model year handy but the usual suspects are arcing from the plug wires to anything connected to the module, bad grounds, alternator voltage spikes, etc. The first think I would do is have the coils tested to see if there is an internal arc that would put spark voltage on the module lines. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Well, you can get your multimeter and check to see if there is power on the red wire at the distributor, that there is resistance but not an open or short across the distributor, and that the connector from the module shows the same resistances. If all of these are good you will have eliminated the pickup coil in the distributor and the cable -- but one of these is probably the problem. Alright, I'll get ahold of a multimeter and check it out. Thanks MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hall Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Are you still stranded or were you able to get the car towed back home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Are you still stranded or were you able to get the car towed back home? Yes, I had it towed to here, The new module fixed the no start condition and I don't have the E012 any more, But now that the new module is in I have E041 No Cam Reference Signal from Ignition Control Module,, That sure is odd- since I don't have access to a multimeter right this night I went and had them test the new module and it passes all tests.. Sure is odd I am wondering why I didn't have the E041 until I put the new module in.. MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Drove to lowes a few miles away maybe five.. service engine light was still on all the way there I think On the way back it was off and then back on, seemed like especially when I was stopping or taking off from a light- when I got home and parked it I noticed that if I goose it a little the light will go off.. then it comes back on, MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 It sounds like the cam position sensor, which is on the distributor, has failed or is intermittent. I believe the distributor has to come out to replace it. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 It sounds like the cam position sensor, which is on the distributor, has failed or is intermittent. I believe the distributor has to come out to replace it. The module failing and that failing as soon as I install the new module.. what are the odds.... It's very odd. MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 It sounds like the cam position sensor, which is on the distributor, has failed or is intermittent. I believe the distributor has to come out to replace it. The module failing and that failing as soon as I install the new module.. what are the odds.... It's very odd. The initial code you reported was "No distributor signal" - that is the cam sensor on the distributor - check the wiring and the connections. If they are OK, then replace the sensor. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 The "No distributor signal" code.. E012 is gone It is history ... the car it starts now E041 is set current and intermittant MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 P012 (E012) .................................................. No Distributor Signal P041 (E041) ................... No Cam Reference Signal from Ignition Control Module The cam reference signal is the one from the camshaft that helps the PCM determine TDC exhaust from TDC firing. The source for this signal isn't the HEI distributor, it's the camshaft position sensor. It may be in a harness to other engine sensors. The camshhaft sensor is probably on the cam cover. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 So as far as I can figure this one, The 012 caused the cpu not to be able to see the 041 So when I fixed 012 it realised hey, Fred, 041!! MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 As I understand the network in the car, there are a bunch of modules, each of which does its own checks and sets its own codes. When the IPC is put into the diagnostic mode from the console, it interrogates each of the other processors over the network in order, PCM first, etc. The PCM and all the other modules check all the codes all the time, with a time between checks that varies from milliseconds (misfire, etc.) to every five minutes or so. The PCM is actually several modules, one for the fuel injection, one for the ignition, one for the transmission, and probably a master one that coordinates and communicates over the network. The the OBD I/II connectcor talks to all the modules over the network. The cam and crankshaft sensors are used to sort out which distributor pulse goes with which cylinder. Since your 4.9 has a physical distributor with a cap and rotor that mechanically sorts out which cylinder is firing, it can run without the cam sensor signal, and the cam sensor probalby just tells the PCM which cylinder is misfiring and such. Since P012 is a distributor code and P041 is a camshaft position sensor code, I don't think that they are directly related. The only relationship I can see is that both are used in the control of the ignition and the fuel injection. I think that the installation of the new module left a bad connection from the ignition module to the PCM, or from the crank sensor to the ignition module. In any case, the thing to do is to look at what the 1990 FSM says to do when you get the P041 code. -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 The cam sensor on a 4.9 engine is on the distributor shaft. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 The cam sensor on a 4.9 engine is on the distributor shaft. I've got a 4.5 probably the same though MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Yes - it should be the same - I forgot that the 1990 models had the 4.5 engine. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I went out and fooled with it some, Found a huge vacuum leak, Fixed that And that made me too tired to fool with this cam sensor I played with the wires, no change, drove to the parts store- the service engine light is on and off intermittantly.. the code is for no signal for five seconds.. put some wire dryer on all the connections for it when I came home. MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Jim Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Pardon me, but I have a question about 4.1/4.5/4.9. The cam in the code is the distributor cam? Or does the sensor use the distributor as a way to check cam motion? -- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data -- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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