BodybyFisher Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 One of my cover bolts is stripped I think I can fix it because it is on the end and I can get a nut and bolt through it... Prayer prayer prayer say a prayer That's probably the one you badly overtightened when you replaced the FPR. Is there anyway to drill and tap it? Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 One of my cover bolts is stripped I think I can fix it because it is on the end and I can get a nut and bolt through it... Prayer prayer prayer say a prayer That's probably the one you badly overtightened when you replaced the FPR. Is there anyway to drill and tap it? No sir it is not that one There might be - I hope so I was so mad with the diagnosis that I got drunk and scared some people All they told me was to replace injectors and I could not find the o rings ANYWHERE MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 If you do drill be careful not to get the filings in the engine, use grease to hold the filings from flying.. Go to the next size larger and get a MATCHING drill bit and tap... Use oil on the tap, they make starter taps, normal taps and bottoming taps, go slow if you do this. Does the hole bottom out or is it clean through? A GM dealer sells the o-rings I bought them for my Grand Prix... Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I went to three dealers. No dice two of them tried to tell me I got those off of the plugs *sigh* Kansas is a big pile of something I would say but I have to be careful right now because I am so mad george strait - country - amarillo by morning.mp3 MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 do you have a digital camera? Post a photo of what you are talking about. I am SHOCKED you can't find the o-rings at a dealer... Makes no sense at all... Please post if you can. How are the injectors on your car attached to the fuel rail? The pontiac has o-rings on both ends. I went to the dealer and they took them off the shelf immediately Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 I was shcoked too The car is going to end up learning how to swim Well no I will post something coherent when I am sober Anotther good song for you George Thorogood - I Drink Alone.mp3 MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Fred, I just sent the schematic to you via email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Hey thanks MAC MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Well today I took it and had the injector cleaning done.. Of course, my friend gave me the wrong card (I borrowed her credit card) so I had to go and get the card the guy at Sears said that would be fine so I came back with the card he says well she needs to be here so I had to go and get her. The joys of Hutchinson Kansas incompetence. *sigh* The car is a tad better. The dealership put the wrong bolts in the wrong holes on the cover and some of them look over torqued. Two are not even tightened down. Wonderful aint it. Dealership claims a couple of plugs are arcing (how can they tell? How do I tell? The plug wires have covers that make it impossible to see down into there.) I'm going to replace the plugs and wires and if that doesn't do it 3 of the injectors MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Sears may have put the car on a scope to monitor the ignition.. What happened to the engine running on ONLY 4 injectors issue? Last I heard you only had 4 injectors, its seems that sears did not confirm that....but only a couple of plugs arching.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Sears may have put the car on a scope to monitor the ignition.. What happened to the engine running on ONLY 4 injectors issue? Last I heard you only had 4 injectors, its seems that sears did not confirm that....but only a couple of plugs arching.. The dealership diagnosed the problem as "at least 3" injectors needing to be replaced- wanted to do three for 595 and "hope it would run alright" they also claimed that the plugs are arcing through the insulators.. that was yesterday and then today I went to Sears and had them do the injector cleaning. They ran the car and had an iv drip type thing plugged into the fuel rail or what ever it is and they put some junk in the tank Is that a proper injector cleaning? I thought you had to have something plugged into the fuel line and run the motor on that for awhile with no fuel at all.. MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Rockauto sells ACDelco injectors for the 90 Seville for $101.79 each. While one of the aftermarket brands sell for more than 50% less. If ultimately you end up spending $595 to replace 3 injectors, I suggest you make sure ACDelco injectors are installed, not some cheapo aftermarket. Assuming you want ACDelco, I suggest you make sure the work order specifies that ACDelco injectors will be installed so there's no misunderstanding. If you're mechanically inclined you should be able to do the job yourself. On a different note, isn't it rare for 3 injectors to go bad at the same time? Maybe, one or even two--but three, at the same time no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Yea, sure is odd. I still think the Kwik Shop gasoline did it- but if the mechanics say I am wrong, what would I say in court, hey the mechanics are wrong *sigh* Either going to get injectors out a yard or something like you mentioned. I always make sure and get delco when I can Rockauto looks good Look for a part: Find More Parts (Contains 0 Items) 1994 : CADILLAC : SEVILLE STS : 4.6L 281 cubic inch V8 MFI (9) : Fuel/Air : Fuel Injector View Advice Item Price Core Total Add to Cart GB REMANUFACTURING Part # 83211108 {FUEL INJECTOR, REMANUFACTURED, Includes new O-rings and seals} More Info $33.79 $10.00 $43.79 MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Sears may have put the car on a scope to monitor the ignition.. What happened to the engine running on ONLY 4 injectors issue? Last I heard you only had 4 injectors, its seems that sears did not confirm that....but only a couple of plugs arching.. The dealership diagnosed the problem as "at least 3" injectors needing to be replaced- wanted to do three for 595 and "hope it would run alright" they also claimed that the plugs are arcing through the insulators.. that was yesterday and then today I went to Sears and had them do the injector cleaning. They ran the car and had an iv drip type thing plugged into the fuel rail or what ever it is and they put some junk in the tank Is that a proper injector cleaning? I thought you had to have something plugged into the fuel line and run the motor on that for awhile with no fuel at all.. Nothing has gone logical with this car... I was under the impression that you pulled a fuse and it had no effect on the engine. I though you determined that it was running on four cylinders.. Did the dealer rule that out? Was it an electrical problem knocking out 4 injectors or did you have 3 dead injectors... I was under the impression that you NAILED it as 4 injectors being dead, did the dealer overturn your finding? Did those three injectors come up as bad because they had no power going to them? This thread continues to confound me.. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Sears may have put the car on a scope to monitor the ignition.. What happened to the engine running on ONLY 4 injectors issue? Last I heard you only had 4 injectors, its seems that sears did not confirm that....but only a couple of plugs arching.. The dealership diagnosed the problem as "at least 3" injectors needing to be replaced- wanted to do three for 595 and "hope it would run alright" they also claimed that the plugs are arcing through the insulators.. that was yesterday and then today I went to Sears and had them do the injector cleaning. They ran the car and had an iv drip type thing plugged into the fuel rail or what ever it is and they put some junk in the tank Is that a proper injector cleaning? I thought you had to have something plugged into the fuel line and run the motor on that for awhile with no fuel at all.. Nothing has gone logical with this car... I was under the impression that you pulled a fuse and it had no effect on the engine. I though you determined that it was running on four cylinders.. Did the dealer rule that out? Was it an electrical problem knocking out 4 injectors or did you have 3 dead injectors... I was under the impression that you NAILED it as 4 injectors being dead, did the dealer overturn your finding? Did those three injectors come up as bad because they had no power going to them? This thread continues to confound me.. Heck I am confounded too. The first time I pulled that one fuse it made NO change. That evening I tried it six or seven times- NO change. Then the next day it made a SMALL change in the idle. Now today it seems to make a bigger change in the idle. The other 10A injector fuse still kills the engine as soon as it is removed I still want to know how the dealer came to the conclusion that the plugs are arcing. Do they have the testers you put on the wires> and those show that spark exists, not whether it is actually where it belongs.. I guess I will do the plugs and wires and go from there to injectors if need be. It seems like every time I think I have the problem "nailed", like when that fuse made no difference, the bottom falls out. Getting there though. What is a fair price to pay some one to do the back plugs? I guess it is like the 4.5/9 where you have to tilt the motor forward a little- eh? Doesn't look like you can even get them from the bottom side otherwise *sigh* MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Just for the record, it is a bad idea to pull fuses with the engine running to see what will happen. The info you got from the mechanics so far was that at least 3 injectors need to be replaced, based on the result of the injector flow tests? Were these injectors leaking, or not flowing at all, or what? Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Just for the record, it is a bad idea to pull fuses with the engine running to see what will happen. The info you got from the mechanics so far was that at least 3 injectors need to be replaced, based on the result of the injector flow tests? Were these injectors leaking, or not flowing at all, or what? I don't even think they tested them ! MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Does anyone know how they figure the plugs are arcing? They wouldn't tell me and I am curious as heck, MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 The dealership diagnosed the problem as "at least 3" injectors needing to be replaced- wanted to do three for 595 and "hope it would run alright" they also claimed that the plugs are arcing through the insulators.. that was yesterday and then today I went to Sears and had them do the injector cleaning. If the plug wires are original, it is a good time to change them. This is not the cause of your problem, but it can cause a slight miss. The dealer can put the car on a tech 2 and determine which cylinders are firing properly. The ones which are not either have a problem with the ignition / spark, fuel, or air flow (unlikely). So the dealer guess if they change the plugs and the injectors it will run better. At home what people frequently do is open the hood at night with no lights on and look for sparking or arcing between the spark plug wires. Sometimes they will lightly mist water on the wires to make it easier to detect. For the cost of wires, if the sparkplug wires on there are original I would change them. If the sparkplugs are original, they are due for a change also. Instead of the cleaning process that Sears did, it would be helpful if you had the injectors flow tested. If the injectors are leaking or not flowing still we are no better off after cleaning. However, it may be beneficial to simply replace all 8 with used or aftermarket injectors and be done with them. Despite the graphic flow pattern commercials / pictures, I generally find that injectors either work, or are broken need to be replaced. I suppose that if the gas you got was watery, it also was dirty, it was also messy enough to clog the injector(s), and that you need to change the fuel filter as well. Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 The fuel filter I did, I also looked at it in the dark, Went to midas today had him change the back plugs for me and he showed me on the wire boot where you can see evidence of arcing.. also he misted the wires. He is a great guy knows his **** and didn't charge me for any extras or even try to. Checked the fuel pressure and it is right on the mark it bursts to 42 when the key goes on and when running it is right at 40+ I expected idiots at Midas but I got good service and honesty.. guy was very direct and knowledgable there. The wires had to be ordered I will have them in the morning (I've been waiting on them) I saw a piece of that injector seal that is broken on one of the plugs. I suspect that if I take care of the arcing and that seal or two it will run alot better and then if need be I will do the injectors You folks have been great to help me so much I really appreciate it MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Sounds like you're making progress Fred! Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Yes sir I hope so There is a Fred Temper Meter and it goes up to 100 Well the car got up around 75-76 with brief bursts up around 89 At 100 the automobile would be full of buckshot, slugs, handgun rounds and in the river It would say GLUB GLUB GLUB and in the car grave mumbling... should have ran for... fredddd.. shouuuullddd.... haaaaa vveee ... raaa aannn foror fredddd... At night in a deep voice with fog and eerie sounds I think then I would toast marshmellows and drink some rum and listen to old songs MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Yes sir I hope so There is a Fred Temper Meter and it goes up to 100 Well the car got up around 75-76 with brief bursts up around 89 At 100 the automobile would be full of buckshot, slugs, handgun rounds and in the river It would say GLUB GLUB GLUB and in the car grave mumbling... should have ran for... fredddd.. shouuuullddd.... haaaaa vveee ... raaa aannn foror fredddd... At night in a deep voice with fog and eerie sounds I think then I would toast marshmellows and drink some rum and listen to old songs You two will make up and be all right soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Well I put the wires on this morning, Seems to respond to throttle more quickly. Still a pig or whatever they say when it is slow like an old dead truck. MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fred Posted September 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 No one will sell the green things the injectors sit in so I will have to junkyark those While I am at it I might get the injectors that way too Rock Auto sells some good ones made by GB and the description said "o-rings and seals" I tracked the company down and talked to a very nice lady she tells me that it comes with two o-rings.. the green larger piece isn't included Three dealers tell me that it doesn't exist when I lay it on their counter.. so it is junkyard or nothing Could those green things being broken cause those cylinders to not fire? I think my injectors are good, I need a good meter to measure resistance, but I think I might just need the seals How do I measure resistance across them.. what do I set the meter at and all of that? MerryChristmas Be a Capitalist or work for one. Work for a Capitalist or be one. MerryChristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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