3.6L High Output variant hits 275hp

[Bruce Nunnally]

The new Saturn Outlook and similar trucks / crossover vehicles will get a certified, 275hp / 251 ft-lb variant of the DOHC VVT 3.6L engine.

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/produ...LY7_Outlook.pdf

Although I recognize that the 08 CTS is planned to have a direct injection variant of the 3.6L V6 with 295-315hp, it would be nice if the 07 Cadillacs had gotten this 275hp variant, a nice improvement over the 255 hp engines in the CTS, SRX V6, and STS V6.

On the bright side, if direct injection adds 15% above 275hp, the 08 engines will hit 315hp+

2007 GM 3.6L V6 VVT (LY7)

3.6L V6 VVT (LY7) CAR AND TRUCK ENGINE

2007 Model Year Summary

• Higher Output Application in 2007 Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia

• New Application in 2007 Pontiac G6 and Saturn Aura

• Smaller Pitch Timing Chain

• Dual-Spray Fuel Injectors

• Improved Oil Pan

Full Description of New and Updated Features

Higher Output Application for 2007 Saturn Outlook

A new high-output version of the 3.6L V6 VVT powers the new Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia crossover sport-utility vehicles. This engine is a transverse installation, matched with GM Powertrain’s new 6T75 Hydra-Matic six-speed automatic transmission and either front- or all-wheel drive.

The 3.6L V6 VVT HO generates more horsepower thanks to changes in the cylinder heads and induction system, increasing airflow through the engine. The intake ports have been reshaped to increase flow, and a new intake manifold features longer runners that reduce airflow restrictions. Finally, the exhaust cams have been re-profiled to speed the flow of exhaust gas out of the engine at wide-open throttle. Maximum lift does not change, but duration increases to keep the exhaust valves open a fraction longer. Preliminary figures indicate a horsepower increase of nearly six percent compared to the previous most powerful version of the 3.6L V6 VVT.

The higher output version retains the 3.6L V6 VVT’s sophisticated variable intake system. The aluminum intake manifold has a valve in its plenum, managed by the engine control module (ECM), which opens and closes according to engine speed. At idle, the valve is open. From just past idle to mid rpm, the valve closes and effectively creates two separate plenums, each feeding the intake runners and ports for half of the cylinders. This optimizes airflow at lower engine speeds to maximize low-end torque. At higher engine speeds, the plenum plate opens, creating a single, higher-volume plenum feeding all cylinders for freer breathing and high-rev horsepower. The variable intake manifold (VIM) allows optimal airflow for a given engine speed without the compromises of a fixed-volume plenum. In combination with cam phasing, it means impressively linear torque delivery.

This higher output version of the 3.6L V6 VVT features its own comprehensive acoustic package, with a full sound-dampening cover between the cam covers. The base Outlook and Acadia will be equipped with single exhaust in both front- and all-wheel drive variants. All other vehicles built with the higher-output 3.6L V6 VVT will feature dual exhaust.

New Application in 2007 Pontiac G6 and Saturn Aura

The 3.6L V6 VVT is available as an option on the G6 coupe and sedan and the all-new Aura sedan. This is a transverse installation. Accessory drive is similar to that in the Buick LaCrosse, but in the G6 and Aura the 3.6L V6 VVT will be equipped with Powertrain’s new 6T70 Hydra-Matic six-speed automatic transmission.

Smaller Pitch Timing Chain

The 3.6L V6 VVT in the Cadillac CTS has a new timing chain with a smaller pitch (7.7 mm compared to 9.5mm previously) and more links. The chain features an inverted tooth design. The smaller links engage at a lower impact speed, which decreases the noise generated. In conjunction with the new chain, the number of teeth on the sprockets is also increased, increasing the meshing frequency and further reducing noise and vibration.

The new timing chain is a running change that will occur in all of GM Powertain’s V6 VVT engines through the course of the 2007 model year.

Dual-Spray Fuel Injectors

Fuel injectors on the 3.6L V6 VVT now have two tiny spray nozzles. Developed with Bosch, the dual-spray injectors improve fuel atomization in the combustion chambers compared to single-tip injectors, allowing more complete combustion. The new injectors allow better emissions management. All 3.6L V6 VVTs except those built for the Buick LaCrosse are equipped with the dual-spray fuel injectors.

Improved Oil Pan

The oil pan on 3.6L V6 VVTs built for the Cadillac CTS, SRX and STS have been stiffened to improve powertrain rigidity and reduce vehicle vibration. The oil pan bolts to the transmission bell housing as well as the engine block, eliminating points of vibration.

Overview

Introduced in the 2004 Cadillac CTS and SRX, the 3.6L V6 VVT (RPO LYZ) was the first in GM Powertrain’s global family of high-feature V6 engines. Its architecture was jointly developed by GM technical centers in Australia, Germany, the United States and Sweden. The 3.6L VVT V6 is based on the philosophy that a true family of global engines provides the best value and performance for the customer and the best return on investment for General Motors. It applies the most advanced automotive engine technology available, from state-of-the-art casting processes to full four-cam phasing to ultra-fast data processing and torque-based engine management. Since its launch, application has spread to an expanding number of vehicles for one primary reason. The 3.6L V6 VVT delivers a market-leading balance of good specific output, high torque over a broad rpm band, fuel economy, low emissions and first-rate noise, vibration and harshness control, with exclusive durability enhancing features and very low maintenance.

The 3.6L V6 VVT’s engine block is cast with sand molds from A319 aluminum, with strong cast-in iron bore liners, six-bolt main bearing journals and inter-bay breather vents. Cylinder heads are also aluminum. Four valves per cylinder and a silent chain valvetrain contribute to both smoothness and high output. Four-cam phasing changes the timing of valve operation as operating conditions such as rpm and engine load vary. That means smooth, even torque delivery with high specific output (horsepower per liter of displacement) and excellent specific fuel consumption. Cam phasing also pays big dividends in reducing exhaust emissions. By closing the exhaust valves late at appropriate times, the cam phasers create an internal exhaust-gas recirculation system. The 3.8L V6 VVT meets all emissions mandates without complex, weight-increasing emissions control systems such as EGR and air injection reaction (AIR).

Aluminum-intensive construction extends to the pistons, which are manufactured of forged aluminum and considerably lighter than conventional steel pistons. Less weight means less reciprocating mass in the engine, which in turn means less inertia and greater operating efficiency. Moreover, the V6 VVT pistons are crafted with a number of features that enhance durability and reduce noise and harshness, including a high-tech polymer coating and floating wrist pins. The V6 VVT engine family was developed with pressure-actuated oil squirters in all applications. Three jet assemblies in the block hold a pair of oil-squirting nozzles that drench the underside of each piston and the surrounding cylinder wall with an extra layer of cooling, friction-reducing oil. The jets reduce piston temperature, which in turn allows the engine to produce more power without reducing long-term durability. The extra layer of oil on the cylinder walls and wristpin further dampens noise emanating from the pistons.

The oil pan provides another example of extensive efforts to minimize noise and vibration in the 3.6L V6 VVT. Cast aluminum dampens internal engine noise better than a conventional stamped steel pan. Structurally, it is considerably stiffer. The design was optimized with math-based analysis and carefully crafted curves in the pan’s sides and bottom. These reduce the broadcasting or “drumming’’ of noise created as oil flows through the crankcase, and they increase bending stiffness in the pan.

The 3.6L V6 VVT is managed the Bosch Motronic ME9 controller. This sophisticated electronic control module (ECM) uses a torque-based control strategy, which improves upon throttle-based management systems that rely exclusively on a throttle position sensor to manage electronic throttle control. The torque-based strategy measures the position of the intake plenum plate, cam phasing positions and other operational parameters and translates that data into an ideal throttle position and engine output, based on the driver’s positioning of the gas pedal. The ECM and a wide range of sensors allow failsafe systems, including ignition operation in the event of timing sensor failures. The control software protects the V6 VVT from permanent damage in the event of complete coolant loss, and allows the engine to operate at reduced power for a prescribed distance sufficient for the driver to find service. It also allows a number of other customer-friendly features, including GM's industry-leading Oil Life System, which determines oil change intervals by actual operation parameters, rather than a preset mileage limit.

The cam drive and valvetrain components require no scheduled maintenance. A sophisticated cam-chain tensioner, high-quality cam phasing components and hydraulic lash adjusters are designed to ensure optimal valvetrain performance for the life of the engine with no adjustment. Even perishable components provide extended useful life. The spark plugs have dual-platinum electrodes and a service life of 100,000 miles without degradation in spark density. The plugs are easy to remove because they are located in the center of the cam cover. Extended life coolant retains its cooling and corrosion-inhibiting properties for 100,000 miles in normal use. The two accessory-drive belts were specified primarily for low-noise operation, yet they are manufactured of EPDM rather than neoprene and should last the same 100,000 miles before replacement is recommended. The oil filter requires only element replacement, and it’s designed to virtually eliminate spillage when the cartridge is removed.

The V-6 VVT development and production teams made assembly efficiency a priority. All global V6 variants can be built with no significant casting changes to major components. Core engine components are designed to be common whenever possible. The basic V6 block is used in all vehicle applications, with differences limited to machining. While different vehicles require different oil pans, the pan’s mating surfaces with the engine block and transmission are common in all cases, allowing considerable assembly efficiencies. The net result is streamlined procurement practices, fewer tool changes in the plant, shorter assembly time and improved quality for the customer.

Production for the 3.6L V6 VVT is located in St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada and Port Melbourne, Australia.

[The Fred]

Heck I guess if Cadillac can get what is it 469hp out of a what is it a 4.4?? These crazy fools can get the 300 out of the 3.6?

[Patrick7997]

The new Saturn Outlook and similar trucks / crossover vehicles will get a certified, 275hp / 251 ft-lb variant of the DOHC VVT 3.6L engine.

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/produ...LY7_Outlook.pdf

Although I recognize that the 08 CTS is planned to have a direct injection variant of the 3.6L V6 with 295-315hp, it would be nice if the 07 Cadillacs had gotten this 275hp variant, a nice improvement over the 255 hp engines in the CTS, SRX V6, and STS V6.

On the bright side, if direct injection adds 15% above 275hp, the 08 engines will hit 315hp+

2007 GM 3.6L V6 VVT (LY7)

3.6L V6 VVT (LY7) CAR AND TRUCK ENGINE

2007 Model Year Summary

• Higher Output Application in 2007 Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia

• New Application in 2007 Pontiac G6 and Saturn Aura

• Smaller Pitch Timing Chain

• Dual-Spray Fuel Injectors

• Improved Oil Pan

Full Description of New and Updated Features

Higher Output Application for 2007 Saturn Outlook

A new high-output version of the 3.6L V6 VVT powers the new Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia crossover sport-utility vehicles. This engine is a transverse installation, matched with GM Powertrain’s new 6T75 Hydra-Matic six-speed automatic transmission and either front- or all-wheel drive.

The 3.6L V6 VVT HO generates more horsepower thanks to changes in the cylinder heads and induction system, increasing airflow through the engine. The intake ports have been reshaped to increase flow, and a new intake manifold features longer runners that reduce airflow restrictions. Finally, the exhaust cams have been re-profiled to speed the flow of exhaust gas out of the engine at wide-open throttle. Maximum lift does not change, but duration increases to keep the exhaust valves open a fraction longer. Preliminary figures indicate a horsepower increase of nearly six percent compared to the previous most powerful version of the 3.6L V6 VVT.

The higher output version retains the 3.6L V6 VVT’s sophisticated variable intake system. The aluminum intake manifold has a valve in its plenum, managed by the engine control module (ECM), which opens and closes according to engine speed. At idle, the valve is open. From just past idle to mid rpm, the valve closes and effectively creates two separate plenums, each feeding the intake runners and ports for half of the cylinders. This optimizes airflow at lower engine speeds to maximize low-end torque. At higher engine speeds, the plenum plate opens, creating a single, higher-volume plenum feeding all cylinders for freer breathing and high-rev horsepower. The variable intake manifold (VIM) allows optimal airflow for a given engine speed without the compromises of a fixed-volume plenum. In combination with cam phasing, it means impressively linear torque delivery.

This higher output version of the 3.6L V6 VVT features its own comprehensive acoustic package, with a full sound-dampening cover between the cam covers. The base Outlook and Acadia will be equipped with single exhaust in both front- and all-wheel drive variants. All other vehicles built with the higher-output 3.6L V6 VVT will feature dual exhaust.

New Application in 2007 Pontiac G6 and Saturn Aura

The 3.6L V6 VVT is available as an option on the G6 coupe and sedan and the all-new Aura sedan. This is a transverse installation. Accessory drive is similar to that in the Buick LaCrosse, but in the G6 and Aura the 3.6L V6 VVT will be equipped with Powertrain’s new 6T70 Hydra-Matic six-speed automatic transmission.

Smaller Pitch Timing Chain

The 3.6L V6 VVT in the Cadillac CTS has a new timing chain with a smaller pitch (7.7 mm compared to 9.5mm previously) and more links. The chain features an inverted tooth design. The smaller links engage at a lower impact speed, which decreases the noise generated. In conjunction with the new chain, the number of teeth on the sprockets is also increased, increasing the meshing frequency and further reducing noise and vibration.

The new timing chain is a running change that will occur in all of GM Powertain’s V6 VVT engines through the course of the 2007 model year.

Dual-Spray Fuel Injectors

Fuel injectors on the 3.6L V6 VVT now have two tiny spray nozzles. Developed with Bosch, the dual-spray injectors improve fuel atomization in the combustion chambers compared to single-tip injectors, allowing more complete combustion. The new injectors allow better emissions management. All 3.6L V6 VVTs except those built for the Buick LaCrosse are equipped with the dual-spray fuel injectors.

Improved Oil Pan

The oil pan on 3.6L V6 VVTs built for the Cadillac CTS, SRX and STS have been stiffened to improve powertrain rigidity and reduce vehicle vibration. The oil pan bolts to the transmission bell housing as well as the engine block, eliminating points of vibration.

Overview

Introduced in the 2004 Cadillac CTS and SRX, the 3.6L V6 VVT (RPO LYZ) was the first in GM Powertrain’s global family of high-feature V6 engines. Its architecture was jointly developed by GM technical centers in Australia, Germany, the United States and Sweden. The 3.6L VVT V6 is based on the philosophy that a true family of global engines provides the best value and performance for the customer and the best return on investment for General Motors. It applies the most advanced automotive engine technology available, from state-of-the-art casting processes to full four-cam phasing to ultra-fast data processing and torque-based engine management. Since its launch, application has spread to an expanding number of vehicles for one primary reason. The 3.6L V6 VVT delivers a market-leading balance of good specific output, high torque over a broad rpm band, fuel economy, low emissions and first-rate noise, vibration and harshness control, with exclusive durability enhancing features and very low maintenance.

The 3.6L V6 VVT’s engine block is cast with sand molds from A319 aluminum, with strong cast-in iron bore liners, six-bolt main bearing journals and inter-bay breather vents. Cylinder heads are also aluminum. Four valves per cylinder and a silent chain valvetrain contribute to both smoothness and high output. Four-cam phasing changes the timing of valve operation as operating conditions such as rpm and engine load vary. That means smooth, even torque delivery with high specific output (horsepower per liter of displacement) and excellent specific fuel consumption. Cam phasing also pays big dividends in reducing exhaust emissions. By closing the exhaust valves late at appropriate times, the cam phasers create an internal exhaust-gas recirculation system. The 3.8L V6 VVT meets all emissions mandates without complex, weight-increasing emissions control systems such as EGR and air injection reaction (AIR).

Aluminum-intensive construction extends to the pistons, which are manufactured of forged aluminum and considerably lighter than conventional steel pistons. Less weight means less reciprocating mass in the engine, which in turn means less inertia and greater operating efficiency. Moreover, the V6 VVT pistons are crafted with a number of features that enhance durability and reduce noise and harshness, including a high-tech polymer coating and floating wrist pins. The V6 VVT engine family was developed with pressure-actuated oil squirters in all applications. Three jet assemblies in the block hold a pair of oil-squirting nozzles that drench the underside of each piston and the surrounding cylinder wall with an extra layer of cooling, friction-reducing oil. The jets reduce piston temperature, which in turn allows the engine to produce more power without reducing long-term durability. The extra layer of oil on the cylinder walls and wristpin further dampens noise emanating from the pistons.

The oil pan provides another example of extensive efforts to minimize noise and vibration in the 3.6L V6 VVT. Cast aluminum dampens internal engine noise better than a conventional stamped steel pan. Structurally, it is considerably stiffer. The design was optimized with math-based analysis and carefully crafted curves in the pan’s sides and bottom. These reduce the broadcasting or “drumming’’ of noise created as oil flows through the crankcase, and they increase bending stiffness in the pan.

The 3.6L V6 VVT is managed the Bosch Motronic ME9 controller. This sophisticated electronic control module (ECM) uses a torque-based control strategy, which improves upon throttle-based management systems that rely exclusively on a throttle position sensor to manage electronic throttle control. The torque-based strategy measures the position of the intake plenum plate, cam phasing positions and other operational parameters and translates that data into an ideal throttle position and engine output, based on the driver’s positioning of the gas pedal. The ECM and a wide range of sensors allow failsafe systems, including ignition operation in the event of timing sensor failures. The control software protects the V6 VVT from permanent damage in the event of complete coolant loss, and allows the engine to operate at reduced power for a prescribed distance sufficient for the driver to find service. It also allows a number of other customer-friendly features, including GM's industry-leading Oil Life System, which determines oil change intervals by actual operation parameters, rather than a preset mileage limit.

The cam drive and valvetrain components require no scheduled maintenance. A sophisticated cam-chain tensioner, high-quality cam phasing components and hydraulic lash adjusters are designed to ensure optimal valvetrain performance for the life of the engine with no adjustment. Even perishable components provide extended useful life. The spark plugs have dual-platinum electrodes and a service life of 100,000 miles without degradation in spark density. The plugs are easy to remove because they are located in the center of the cam cover. Extended life coolant retains its cooling and corrosion-inhibiting properties for 100,000 miles in normal use. The two accessory-drive belts were specified primarily for low-noise operation, yet they are manufactured of EPDM rather than neoprene and should last the same 100,000 miles before replacement is recommended. The oil filter requires only element replacement, and it’s designed to virtually eliminate spillage when the cartridge is removed.

The V-6 VVT development and production teams made assembly efficiency a priority. All global V6 variants can be built with no significant casting changes to major components. Core engine components are designed to be common whenever possible. The basic V6 block is used in all vehicle applications, with differences limited to machining. While different vehicles require different oil pans, the pan’s mating surfaces with the engine block and transmission are common in all cases, allowing considerable assembly efficiencies. The net result is streamlined procurement practices, fewer tool changes in the plant, shorter assembly time and improved quality for the customer.

Production for the 3.6L V6 VVT is located in St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada and Port Melbourne, Australia.

Bruce, I agree.... at the very least, the SRX could have got the new one in '07......

Nice article. Thanks for posting that.

[JasonA]

This is exactly what GM should be doing in my opinion. Make a world-class V6 engine and start putting it into everything they make. Even Saturns and Pontiacs. Throw out the 2.8, the 3.4, the 3.5, and maybe even the 3.8 and 3.9. The new generation of variable valve timing engines produces great torque down low, and great power up high. One engine now does the job of many. Kudos to GM for beginning to simplify their lineup.

[GreenMachine]

Heck I guess if Cadillac can get what is it 469hp out of a what is it a 4.4?? These crazy fools can get the 300 out of the 3.6?

One is simply direct injection, where as the Cadillac Northstar is a supercharged V-8. Differant ballpark.

This is exactly what GM should be doing in my opinion. Make a world-class V6 engine and start putting it into everything they make. Even Saturns and Pontiacs. Throw out the 2.8, the 3.4, the 3.5, and maybe even the 3.8 and 3.9. The new generation of variable valve timing engines produces great torque down low, and great power up high. One engine now does the job of many. Kudos to GM for beginning to simplify their lineup.

The problem with that is people will instead of looking at it as simplifiying, will say it is rebadging.

What I think they should do is standardize the 4 cylinders (already beginning), standardize the 6's.

Now my vision:

Ontop of the I4/V6 standardization, do as in the past and give each brand its own V-8 or special version of another V8. That's what sparked buying in the past, if you can get a Pontiac with the same engine as a Chevy, why buy the Chevy or vice versa. Then again the Lucerne/DTS combination is working well.

Chevy could continue on with the new 5.3L in the impala (LS4) and of course the LSX Corvettes would remain the way they are. V6's would dominate their market. Chevy would remain the biggest brand because it would appeal to the largest audiance and offer the most vehicles.

Pontiac needs to be the brand of "performance for pennies" so to speak. Get this brand of its feet again with multiple cars priced to compete with the Mustang and cheaper and the performance to pass it. (solstice is the beginning of that I think). Mainly V6's here but need one big performer with a V8 option or a nice Supercharged V6.

Buick, would remain as the entry level to luxury, focusing on the lower-end of BMW/Lexus/Mercedes. Traditional Luxury with a flair of new-luxury.

Cadillac would be the one the compete with all the high-end for less price. Compete with the upper and middle of BMW/Lexus/Mercedes and eventually the super luxury brands. Compete with best the Nurburgring and Autobahn can dish out.

GMC would continue on being the best "and kind of truck you need" company, still remain a great "outlet" store for contractors and people simply looking for big trucks.

Hummer would continue being "differant" than the rest of the road and stand out.

SAAB would continue with a small brand of sporty 4 Doors for that type of crowd.

Saturn will continue to be the front runner against Saburu type cars and would be the brand to gain back those who are stuck in the attitude of "domestics suck".

Need the brands to compete with themselves and slide the compitition out of the equation. Bascially offer a car for ever person, god knows they have the brands to do it, if someone thinks all they have to do is go to GM for what they want they may grab more buyers simply because of the way "on stop shopping" seems to be a fad today. Cut out some of the overlap and offer usefull changes to each model.

That's my idea, some of it just poped in there as I wrote it

One last note on the V6, it may be world class but wont be too good for larger vehicles that you want to move fast, the torque is not quite as high as the Northstar for example. Its a high revving engine though.

[JasonA]

The problem with that is people will instead of looking at it as simplifiying, will say it is rebadging.

Perhaps, but I don't think so. Look at Honda or Nissan. Especially Nissan. If you buy a V6 Nissan, you get the very same V6 no matter what you buy. Well actually, they just introduced a larger 4.0L version of the same engine, but in general, any V6 Nissan comes with their VQ35DE engine. Altima, Maxima, G35, Z, Quest, doesn't matter. It's all the same engine, in slightly different tune. Even their Frontier and Pathfinder trucks used this engine. Variable valve timing allows you to get good torque in one application, and screaming horsepower in another -- from the very same engine.

What I think they should do is standardize the 4 cylinders (already beginning), standardize the 6's.

That's what I was talking about -- V6 standardization. I wasn't talking about replacing V8 engines with V6s. I'm talking standardization. How many different V6 engines from different familes does GM have? At least 3, at LEAST. The 2.8/3.6 VVT engines. The 3800 engine. The many OHV engines in the 3.4/3.5/3.9 displacement variety, and I'm not sure if they're all from the same engine family or not. That's at least 3 totally different machining processes, 3 totally different servicing practices, etc. Oh, and I forgot the old-school Vortec 4300 V6 also, if they still make that.

One last note on the V6, it may be world class but wont be too good for larger vehicles that you want to move fast, the torque is not quite as high as the Northstar for example. Its a high revving engine though.

Point taken, but GM's 3.6L VVT engine has the capability of producing more torque than any of their current V6 engines, so I'm talking about V6 territory, not V8. The Lucerne comes optional with the Northstar V8, but the 3800 is the standard engine. Why not make it the 3.6L VVT? More power AND more torque than the 3800, and better fuel economy as well.

The problem I have with the way American cars used to be is that you REALLY had to pony up for the "good engines". How is Chevy to compete with the Impala or Malibu if Honda and Nissan are putting 250+ hp V6 engines in their Altimas and Accords? It can't. You can buy Hyundais now that will outrun any of our Northstars, let alone their direct competition at GM. You have to pony up for an STS or CTS to get the "good engines".

Until now (thank you GM). Now you can get a friggin' SATURN with the 3.6L. NOW we'll start to compete with the Sonatas and Altimas and Camrys, which all come with fine V6 engines and run 0-60 in the low 6s.

[GreenMachine]

I agree with what your saying, it would reduce costs. I hope they do however tune them for each specific application. That would be very ideal.

There is also an older engine inline 6 that the GMC Envoy had, it was a 275HP engine. Be intresting if they decide to cut that one or expand it, and inline 6 could fit in a space a V8 sits in. BMW has really triumphed when it comes to the V6. No matter what its just simply good to see a good V6 coming out of detriot.

[The Fred]

This is exactly what GM should be doing in my opinion. Make a world-class V6 engine and start putting it into everything they make. Even Saturns and Pontiacs. Throw out the 2.8, the 3.4, the 3.5, and maybe even the 3.8 and 3.9. The new generation of variable valve timing engines produces great torque down low, and great power up high. One engine now does the job of many. Kudos to GM for beginning to simplify their lineup.

If they had the brains to simplify their automobile name lineup across the board they'd do alot better.. they would be out of trouble in a heartbeat.

But they're too stupid

[JasonA]

There is also an older engine inline 6 that the GMC Envoy had, it was a 275HP engine. Be intresting if they decide to cut that one or expand it, and inline 6 could fit in a space a V8 sits in.

There are three related inline engines from GM right now. The 4200 I-6, the 3500 I-5, and the 2800 I-4. All are closely related. The 3500 is a 4200 minus one cylinder. The 2800 is a 4200 minus two cylinders.

GM has slightly enlarged the I-4 and the I-5 this year, to 2.9L (2900) for the 4-cylinder and to 3.7L (3700) for the 5-cylinder. We have three Chevy Colorados at work with the 3500 inline-5 and they do very well. 220 horsepower and as much torque. Great little engines.

As far as an I-6 fitting where a V-8 would, it would be difficult, in terms of length. Remember that a V-8 is only 4 cylinders "long", whereas an I-6 is 6 cylinders "long". It's interesting to note that when Chevy designed the Colorado/Canyon trucks, they apparently didn't allow room for the I-6. The I-5 is the biggest engine you can get in them. No V-6 or anything. 5 cylinders. I'm not sure why they did that. But I'm sure that's why the 3500 I-5 was enlarged to 3.7L this year. I think that new 3700 I-5 engine makes north of 250 horsepower.

BMW has really triumphed when it comes to the V6. No matter what its just simply good to see a good V6 coming out of detriot.

BMW uses inline-6s as opposed to V-6s. Mercedes-Benz also used inline-6 engines for a while, but has since concentrated their 6-cylinder program on V-6s.

[Bruce Nunnally]

GM had organized their car V6 families into a High Feature V6, the 2.8/3.6L DOHC engines, and High Value V6s, the 3.4L/3.5L/3.9L OHV engines. The 3.8L V6 is still in production also, and still gets year to year changes / improvements.

The two-line idea was to have a less expensive (High Value) line of V6s, and a more expensive, higher HP line of V6s (High Feature). This got somewhat confused when they added VVT to the OHV engines.

The high feature (VVT) version of the high value 3.9L and the low feature version (limited VVT) of the high feature 3.6L engine family both put out around 240hp. This seems confusing to everyone, GM included.

However, if you look at the various Buick, Chevrolet, Pontiac models on similar platforms, which engine and transmission they offer is one discriminator among otherwise similar models.

I think what GM is realizing now is that they NEED the 3.6L V6 output in order to compete in both the family car market and luxury market. So I think we will see the 3.6L VVT DOHC V6 in every top of the line V6 application for most GM Brands. I have been a proponent of this, as I feel the loss of exclusivity is a great trade for the greater likelihood of performance aftermarket for the engine, and the decrease in cost across the engine line.

I also wonder what the final cost per car difference is between say the 240hp 3.9L VVT and the new 275hp 3.6L VVT, and whether it is significant compared to the difference in the engines.

[JasonA]

I think what GM is realizing now is that they NEED the 3.6L V6 output in order to compete in both the family car market and luxury market.

Absolutely. Everyone has a 250+ hp engine in a family sedan these days. Some have had 230-240+ for a long time. In the world of GM, you really had to ante up. You could get the Pontiac SSEIs and the GTPs with the S/C 3800, but nothing in a "lower" model.

They really are confusing themselves with the "high value" V-6 engines that make more horsepower and torque, with VVT, than the 2.8L "high feature" V-6 engine. And they added more confusion by buying HONDA engines and putting them into Saturns (the V-6 Vue).

Axe them ALL except for the 3.6L. It's completely competitive, can be infinitely tuned with the VVT technology, and probably fits in most everything. GM used to have the "exclusivity" practice as you mentioned, Bruce, and I don't think it helped at all. Hindsight is 20/20 of course. I'm glad to see them integrating that 3.6L engine across the board, even in "value" lines like the Saturn.

I also wonder what the final cost per car difference is between say the 240hp 3.9L VVT and the new 275hp 3.6L VVT, and whether it is significant compared to the difference in the engines.

I bet it's rather small...especially considering that other competitors' vehicles in the same class come with some really nice V-6 engines that make the pushrod V-6s from GM just seem antiquated.