[Q] tools to replace front wheel hubs

[90vtwin]

Hi,

I reviewed the post with pictures on front wheel hub replacement

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...t+wheel+bearing

However I am not clear on a couple of items

1) what tools do I need (besides normal sockets/ratchets)

I am thinking I need 34mm socket, breaker bar

but do I need a grease gun (and if yes, what type of grease: I have syntethic,

or grafite-based synthetic for brake parts),

and wheel stud placement tool (although the replacement

I was recommended to get (Timken) appears to come with those))?

Also will I need an air compressor with impact wrench, and if yes what's the

torque to undo, and then most importantly what is the torque

spec to put the axel nut back (as I understand it

if it that axle nut is not screwed in to the spec, over time I will grind the axel itself)

Will I need something like

Description

LISLE #20600 CV BOOT DRIVER FOR GM FWD CARS

Removes and installs boots on GM CV joints with stamped retainer rings (not clamps). Fits large and small rings. Does it fast, won't damage boots. May be used with an air-impact hammer.

thanks in advance,

Vladislav

[BodybyFisher]

The job is quite easy, be sure not to over extend the inner CV joint on the axle, you can dislodge the joint. Use a punch or screw driver stuck into the rotor vent to act as a stop and hold the axle from turning when you loosen and tighten the axle bolt.

My hub bearing came right out.. Once I got the nut off, I used a brass rod and heavy hammer to push the axle in and to dislodge it from the hub bearing, it moved back easily.

Turn the axle to access the three bolts through the hole in the hub flange (see 3rd photo). Once I got those bolts out (torx head) the hub bearing walked right back. Some here had problems with getting the hub bearing out of the knuckle and used a three arm puller, that might be fine to break the axle shaft out of the hub bearing spline, but I would NOT use that technique to remove the hub bearing from the knuckle as you will push IN and put too much stress on the CV joints. My method to get the hub bearing out of the knuckle would be to use a slide hammer and rotate the flange 360 degrees to tap it out in a circle... But you might be lucky and it might fall out when you take the bolts off (see first photo)....like mine did

Use a torque wrench to retorque all bolts to proper spec...

A couple of photos of my job in June:

[Ranger]

No grease gun needed. The bearing is greased and sealed. Air compressor and impact are nice but not necessary. You do not need the LISLE #20600 CV BOOT DRIVER. You will not be disassembling the boot. It stays untouched. '99 Seville FSM says 118 lb. ft. of toque on the hub nut. I suspect yours should be similar.

[90vtwin]

Thank you,

what was the size of the torx head (I do have torx wrenches over 8mm)

so wanted to know if I need to get those..

Also is a screwdriver in the rotor vent the only way

(I rushed and pulled the rotor and caliper out preparing for the job

and those bolts that hold the caliper to the knuckle are really hard :-) )

118 lb/ft is not bad at all, I should be able to do it by hand (I weight 220

and my braker is almost 1 ft long :-) )

Should the wheel be straigh up when unscrewing the axle nut or can it

be turned all the way to the left (I am doing the left side first) -- as it is

easier to get the leverage that way (but I am not sure if I brake something

that way).

thanks again

[BodybyFisher]

Thank you,

what was the size of the torx head (I do have torx wrenches over 8mm)

so wanted to know if I need to get those..

Also is a screwdriver in the rotor vent the only way

(I rushed and pulled the rotor and caliper out preparing for the job

and those bolts that hold the caliper to the knuckle are really hard :-) )

118 lb/ft is not bad at all, I should be able to do it by hand (I weight 220

and my braker is almost 1 ft long :-) )

Should the wheel be straigh up when unscrewing the axle nut or can it

be turned all the way to the left (I am doing the left side first) -- as it is

easier to get the leverage that way (but I am not sure if I brake something

that way).

thanks again

My memory tells me it was 50 or 55, but I would have 40 to 60 on hand..to be safe...

That axle bolt is torqued quite high and you will need a breaker bar to remove it, the manual states to use a screw driver in the vent, to facilitate nut removal... You will torque the axle quite a bit, but I dont think more than accelerating from a stop... but you will get a springy feeling that may make removing the monster nut more difficult...

I dont think it matters if the wheel is turned. Me? I would quickly put the rotor back and put the two slider bolts on to hold the caliper, to use that screwdriver stop... Im 6'5" 230 and go to the gym 6 days a week, and have a long breaker bar also, and that nut can be a bear..to get off...I'd also be concerned with hurting something, without the screwdriver stop, the STOP will help you to remove the nut...

[90vtwin]

I dont think it matters if the wheel is turned. Me? I would quickly put the rotor back and put the two slider bolts on to hold the caliper, to use that screwdriver stop... Im 6'5" 230 and go to the gym 6 days a week, and have a long breaker bar also, and that nut can be a bear..to get off...I'd also be concerned with hurting something, without the screwdriver stop, the STOP will help you to remove the nut...

Thanks for a quick reply

I will put the rotor back, and use the screwdriver stop,

especially since the manual recommends the same.

[90vtwin]

Hi, replaced the front-left wheel hub.

However if I just turn the axle with my hand holding onto the wheel stud (brake rotors are not on yet), I feel a little play (may be 2-3 degrees). Is this normal? Or does it mean something is wrong

with the axle

The reason why I replaced the hub was because I was getting C1225

(left wheel speed)

It happened rarely (may be once a day or less) when I take off, I hear a little

grinding noise and then I see Traction control on and Anti Lock brake light on (I assume

it means ABS was disinganged).

I also felt slight pulsating at the steering when attempting to zig-zag (lightly) at about 30-40 mph.

Also, this is probably not relavant, but on my '99 I do not have torx bolts that are accessible from the front of the hub, instead I have 3 bolts that are holding the hub (13mm head) from the back.

Thanks in advance,

Vladislav

[epricedright]

Hi, replaced the front-left wheel hub.

However if I just turn the axle with my hand holding onto the wheel stud (brake rotors are not on yet), I feel a little play (may be 2-3 degrees). Is this normal? Or does it mean something is wrong

with the axle?

How is that even possble unless the spline on the end of your axle is worn/stripped bad? Where is the play exactly? Is this on the side with your new hub? Did the end of your axle look normal? I wouldn't think there should be any play between the hub and axle.

[90vtwin]

How is that even possble unless the spline on the end of your axle is worn/stripped bad? Where is the play exactly? Is this on the side with your new hub? Did the end of your axle look normal? I wouldn't think there should be any play between the hub and axle.

Hi, sorry I probably did not explain right

There is no play between hub and the axel, there is a play between axel and the

shaft (or whatever it is called). I basically felt the same light play when just turning

the axel with my hands, without even the hub being on... may be the way that the axel

attaches to the transmission (shaft) is like a clutch so there supposed to be this slight play

before the plates engage (but I am thinking here manual clutch, as I donot know how

it actually works here)

The spline was not stripped, I checked for that right away.

[BodybyFisher]

It sounds like you are trying to say that the CV joint is loose does that sound right? If the car is in park that shaft will not turn correct? You didnt pull that shaft out of the transmission did you?

[JimD]

....

However if I just turn the axle with my hand holding onto the wheel stud (brake rotors are not on yet), I feel a little play (may be 2-3 degrees). Is this normal? Or does it mean something is wrong

with the axle

....

If you mean you can 'rotate' the axle, that is perfectly normal with the vehicle in park.

If we could ask every person on this board to jack a drive wheel off the ground, they would be able to rotate the wheel a few degrees without resistance.

[BodybyFisher]

That would make sense Jim, even in PARK with the PARKING PAWL engaged, I have play in my axle, that is normal. That is why you need to put a screwdriver in the rotor vent to hold it, there is movement..

[epricedright]

....

However if I just turn the axle with my hand holding onto the wheel stud (brake rotors are not on yet), I feel a little play (may be 2-3 degrees). Is this normal? Or does it mean something is wrong

with the axle

....

If you mean you can 'rotate' the axle, that is perfectly normal with the vehicle in park.

If we could ask every person on this board to jack a drive wheel off the ground, they would be able to rotate the wheel a few degrees without resistance.

I agree. Play between the hub and tranny is normal. I mistakenly understood him saying he could hold his axle shaft still, and the hub would slightly turn...that is not normal.

[90vtwin]

Thanks a lot, that's what I meant by the 'play'

glad it is normal, sorry for my ignorance

thank you

[BodybyFisher]

So is the HUM/MOAN gone, how is it riding? Success?

[90vtwin]

So is the HUM/MOAN gone, how is it riding? Success?

I will report on that in this thread when I will put it all back together (I am about 5 hours

away from that :-) )

[BodybyFisher]

OK forge ahead, good luck

[epricedright]

Thanks a lot, that's what I meant by the 'play'

glad it is normal, sorry for my ignorance

thank you

That was my bad. I misunderstood what you were saying. Good luck with the rest of your repairs.

[rmac-etc]

Not sure you got the reply you needed re the tools, here is what I used on my 95 eldorado, don't know if it has changed or not

The tools that you will need:

3/8 allen wrench for the 2 brake caliper bolts (don't know why its not metric, but 10mm is too big and 9 a bit too small).

33MM hub socket (pep boys has them for 'bout 10 bucks). Regular sockets are not deep enough (a 34 mm works too if that all they have).

t-55 torx for the 3 bolts holding the thing together. You will want at least 1/2 in drive and something for leverage, mine was VERY tight, i used a 4 ft pipe for leverage!

With those bolts removed, the hub is 'detached', but will not just fall into your hands. I rented a wheel hub puller (the first place gave me the wrong type of puller, and it was inadequate) and even with the correct tool it was very tight. This type of puller bolts to the wheel lug nuts and the center as you would expect, screws against the axle, anything less would not have worked. One person replied that he used a generic puller and a 'blue tipped wrench' (fortunately, he explained that was propane torch - first I had heard of that term!). So there seems to be some range of difficulty with the final release of the hub, but thats it. The axle will try to escape outbound, but that not too difficult to deal with. And a seal will likely remain behind that you will need to pull or tap out (I tapped it with a hammer and punch and its a bit awkward).

Putting it back together is quick and easy. I understand that the hub nut should be torqued to 100 ft lbs.

(recently did this job in 50 minutes)

[rmac-etc]

oops, regarding the

"3/8 allen wrench for the 2 brake caliper bolts " comment ....

They are actually t-55 torx, not allen ... The first time I did it I used an allen head socket not knowing it was really torx cause I couldn't see it. Was just lucky that it worked.

[90vtwin]

Hi, replaced both wheel hubs.

Started up, and got C1232 telling be that the left abs sensor is not working,

jacked the car up on the left and saw that the hub's sensor is not connecting

well (the two wires that were supposed to stick out where ressed) -- I most likely damaged

it while moving the new hub back and forth. I was not in the mood to buy a new hub because

of this... so I improvised, just took the plastic cover off the sensor's end and used isolating tape

and wire to hook it up together... This was the most unfortunate moment through this

install-fest :-( .

But sofar no problem with the noise I was getting before (when taking off),

the traction and ABS lights are not on. No more 1231 code..

So sofar so good.

Pulsating feeling is still there, however I am analyzing this now and it is between

40 mph, but goes away at 80 (although at 80 I did not really tried the 'zigzagging' :-)

So, as it was suggested earlier it may be the tires, although a counter argument to it

is that when I just hold straing line I do not detect any pulsating...

I have a laser thermometer, so I took an opportunity to measure some temperaturs,

since I just drove hard for about 10 minutes (including big stops from 80mph)

Temp Front Disc -left 298 (F)

Temp Front Disk -right - 304

Temp Front Wheel Left - 132

(especially the front wheels are really hot to touch)

Temp Engine Block (from front valve cover gasket) 202, after fans turned out went down

to 194

------------

As far as the tools, on my '99 concourse there are no torx bolts

Calipers are held to the knockle by the two 15mm bolts (they are 16$ each at the dealership,

as I found out)

The front wheel hub is held by 3 13mm bolts, they are screwed in from behind the hub.

The axle nut is probably 33mm, but I could not find 33mm anywhere so I used 34, but it

was very easy to take it out though (I also used DeepCreep to loosen most of the nuts).

I used 23$ two arm puller to pull the left hub from the axel, the right one just came off.

Thanks for all the help and timely follow ups,

Vladislav