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Which Model Borlas for 1997 ETC?


Cadillac Jim

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Tuesday night I got a glancing blow off the rear end while turning into the driveway. There are deep scratches on the bumper and the left muffler is affected. The Y pipe is bent and the muffler is displaced to the left, and the exhaust tips are bent almost 90 degrees. I haven't had it looked at yet but may get a cash settlement, then buy new mufflers and tips and have the whole car detailed.

If I do cash out the damage, I need to know ASAP -- before the weekend -- if the Borlas are a good idea in terms of drivability and warranty, etc. I'm looking for better performance and gas mileage with OEM+ quality stainless steel mufflers, and no issues about warranty (my new engine has less than 2,000 miles on it and one exclusion is "exhaust systems not supported by the manufacturer" but I do notice that Cadillac dealers now install Borlas).

In addition, I need part numbers from people who use them on 1995-1999 STS/ETC. Note that the cat-back systems for the STS won't work for the ETC because of the shorter wheelbase, so I'll end up with mufflers and tips, plus possibly the rear Y pipe.

I just called Jasper and they said that the Borla mufflers that we discussed here are OK for the warranty. They guy I talked to had a 4.0 Northstar in an Aurora for 10 yearss and just bought a CTS with a 3.6 and understands completely. I told him that I expect 3.5% improvement in gas mileage and performance, and he said that I might get that.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I had Borla mufflers on my 96 STS and they sounded great and performed well. I think as long as you don't put a turbo on it then it should have no effect on your engine warranty, but to be on the safe side you should ask the engine supplier what they mean by that clause.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

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Bruce -- You didn't volunteer a part number, so I presume that the Borlas listed for the 1995-1999 STS/ETC with rear Y-pipe and tips is what I will need. I will call Jasper. Thanks.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Here was my write-up, but doesn't show p/n:

http://www.caddyinfo.com/exhausttest.htm

At http://www.borla.com they show p/n 40658 is a stainless steel, 2.25"/2.25" center/offset.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

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Jim, please post here, or in your own blog forum, how this works out....

I had a Borla exhaust system on my C5, and LOVED it....

If you are happy with the results, there will be a Borla on mine too....

Thanks.

Bruce, nice job on that write-up....

I'd be curious to know what it SOUNDED like....

My C5 definitely had a rumble at idle, but not bad... my neighbor said "That's nice... it's not obnoxious, but you know it's there, and you know it means business."

Driving the car, it was fine.... but when floored, it got crazy loud, which was nice....

That's kinda the effect I was looking for.... is that what you got??? Okay, maybe when floored I wouldn't want it to be AS loud as the Corvette, but... louder, ya know???

Thanks.

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I would not say my 96 STS was loud, but it definitely sounded 'tuned'.

However, keep in mind I like engine and exhaust sounds.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

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The girl's father just got off dead center about dealing with my claim today. I do hope that I can get the exhaust fixed early next week. I'm very nervous about driving it with the left muffler cocked and the tips wiped sideways.

I'll put as much as I can on my log. If I can be there, I will have pictures. My plan is to get the exaust done ASAP and make an appointment for the body work, which I expect will take a few days.

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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I found that playing nice was interminably slow and unacceptabley time-consuming and I need my car fixed, so I went back to my insurance company. My car is going in the shop Monday morning. However, there is a snag: everybody is out of stock on Borla turbo mufflers for my car. The 40658 is 2 1/4" in and out, center/offset, which is a pretty much a description of the right muffler for most cars out there that are capable of benefitting from them. It will be weeks before Borla makes a new batch. I did find someone that will have a few in a couple of weeks, and will ask the shop to do a search Monday, but later Saturday afternoon I couldn't find any that were on-hand and ready to ship. Does anyone know someone who has two Borla part number 40658 mufflers on-hand and ready to ship?

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I found that playing nice was interminably slow and unacceptabley time-consuming and I need my car fixed, so I went back to my insurance company. My car is going in the shop Monday morning. However, there is a snag: everybody is out of stock on Borla turbo mufflers for my car. The 40658 is 2 1/4" in and out, center/offset, which is a pretty much a description of the right muffler for most cars out there that are capable of benefitting from them. It will be weeks before Borla makes a new batch. I did find someone that will have a few in a couple of weeks, and will ask the shop to do a search Monday, but later Saturday afternoon I couldn't find any that were on-hand and ready to ship. Does anyone know someone who has two Borla part number 40658 mufflers on-hand and ready to ship?

Google search "BORLA 40658" turns up quite a number.

Try http://www.autotruckpart.com/index.asp?Pag...amp;ProdID=1160

They seem to be one of the lowest price and offer a further discount during checkout by entering the code "BORLA". I have not used this particular company before, so I cannot provide any other information on them.

-George

Drive'em like you own 'em. - ....................04 DTS............................

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growe3 -- Thanks. I did a dogpile (Webcrawler) search on "Borla 40658" Saturday afternoon and found a number of people who list the Borla 40658 but when you call the say it's out of stock or back-ordered. AutoTruckParts doesn't have a phone number so it's impossible to verify immediate availability without ordering. An outfit called Summit Racing Equipment told me that they will get seven of them in late next week, about September 29, and estimate delivery a few days after that. That's the earliest firm committment that I can get. I have an order in, but will cancel if I can get a pair of these mufflers before they get theirs in.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Recently I have begun looking for mufflers, my 98 Deville is getting louder, right now its at the point where it sounds "nice" all deep and throaty but I can tell its a ticking time bomb before it finally goes and my ears bleed. (could actually be CAT damage from my misfire problems).

The Green's Machines

1998 Deville - high mileage, keeps on going, custom cat-back exhaust

2003 Seville - stock low mileage goodness!

2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG - Smaller supercharger pulley, Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Dyno tune, etc

1998 Firebird Formula - 408 LQ9 Stroker motor swap and all sorts of go fast stuff

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EGreen: If your catalytic converter is giving problems from a backfire problem, you will hear the ceramic inside it rattling at idle. You may also notice a decrease in gas mileage and power, particularly at the higher RPMs. If you don't see any of these symptoms, the cat is very probably OK.

A good hour's drive at 65 mph will burn most of everything out of the catalytic converter that is out of place there. It may have a similar effect in evaporating condensation and eroding carbon out of the mufflers and the rest of the exhaust system.

If you do have that throaty tone, then the guts of your mufflers are gone. Since they likely are starting to leak too, why wait? I will likely recommend the Borla mufflers after I get them because they are recognized as high-quality stainless steel, which equals or betters the quality of the GM replacements, and they come with a lifetime guarantee. I'm not likely to be turned off by the sound because I ride with the windows closed, and I've had a couple of cars with turbo mufflers before, including a tricked-out 1964 Chevrolet 327 and a 1969 Chevrolet 427. They weren't Borlas, which are supposed to have a much more refined tone than older turbo mufflers. Both cars were noisy, particularly the 327, and the 427 would pop out the tailpipe if revved it in park. I rode with the windows closed. A little exhaust note that is appropriate for an ETC may or may not be out of place on a DeVille. I'll let you know what I think when I hear it.

A turbo muffler is a small oval muffler that usually has either a straight-through or an S-shaped straight through pipe, with perforations into sound control chambers. They're modeled after the turbo Corvair mufflers of the 1960's. A number of people make them and they are all low restriction. Borla is one of the few that makes them in stainless steel.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Summit Racing is a good supplier in my experience.

T Byrne Motorsports http://www.tbyrnemotorsports.com/ posted on digitalcorvettes.com that Borla plans to raise prices on Oct 1, and that tbyrne is having a sale on Borlas.

Orders can be placed online or by calling 1-877-482-9763.

Note they offer a price match policy also.

Bruce

2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing

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If my '97 ever needs new mufflers (the whole system is original, and still 100%), it'll likely get either Borlas or Edelbrocks. We've had both before, and both have been very high quality. No aluminized metal here -- all stainless steel. "Don" on the other Cadillacforum has Borla mufflers on his '93 Allante. I've never heard it though.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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I have some ordered at Summit Racing. They say that they will get seven of them in on September 29 and expected delivery here is October 6.

A P Performance Exhaust Products of New Hampshire has two 40357's which are 2 1/4" in, 2 1/4" out, center/offset and they will be here probably tomorrow. These are slighlty larger than the 40658's but they tell me that they have put these in Cadillac Sevilles and Eldorados. I don't see that part number in the catalog. A P Perf. tells me that these are OEM mufflers for performance shops that are equivalent to 40658's. If they will go on the car when they come in, I will either cancel the Summit order or have a spare pair for e-bay.

Another problem has surfaced. The ETC mufflers are back-ordered and we can''t get tips without a new GM muffler for the left side. I'll call my favorite dealer and ask if we can VIP one tomorrow morning.

The body is now partly torn down for minor collision repair of the left rear corner and overall detailing. If we can't get a working exhaust system on it by Thursday evening that won't ding the new rear bumper, the car will sit at the shop until we do and we'll take my wife's car Thursday night.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Jim, FYI, check on tips for C5 Corvettes. My brother ordered a new set of stainless tips (just the bright stainless oval rings) for his C5 before he replaced the exhaust and they were a dead ringer for the Cadillac tips. That wouldn't include the small Y-pipe back there, but for the tips at least....

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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Jason: Thanks loads. The body shop and I will powow later this morning on status and schedule, and we will need that.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Jim, here are a few links:

http://www.corvettepartz.com/exhaust-tips-p-8.html

http://storesense.megawebservers.com/HS198...%3AExhaust+Tips

http://www.westcoastcorvette.com/pc-244-46...r-97-00-c5.aspx

Edit: also, do you have any digital sound-recording equipment? I can't wait to hear your Eldorado with the Borlas.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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I have a digital camera with movie mode and a laptop with a built-in microphone. I'll work out something to record the Borlas. The problem will be getting someone to operate the sound equipment while I'm operating the throttle.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Thanks for the reply Jim, I've been having a slight rattle (which seems to have goten worse since the misfire had/are happening), sounds like a loose heatshield and the shop I got to said it was something internal to the cat and not to worry until I begin to get some problems.

My mileage hasn't changed much, from 15 to 14.5 but I attribute that to the misfireing or a heavier throttle and crappy weather (actually going to check all the plugs for correct gap and wires for proper resistance today since the sun is out).

I actually like the tone so I'm thinking the increased sound at WOT and only slight increase at idle will be perfect to entertain my lack of a muscle car blues :)

I remember cadillac on the last year of the Eldorado had a specially tuned exhuast note to mimic the 59 eldorado sound, I have seen only one of the collectable numbered units but it was in a showroom so I didn't get to hear it.

Also how "easy" would it be for me to do a possible cat/muffler replacement in my driveway? I'll have a look in the manual but from my understanding sometimes these aftermarkets require some fabricating which I'm sure would be out of my budget and I have never done any welding.

EGreen: If your catalytic converter is giving problems from a backfire problem, you will hear the ceramic inside it rattling at idle. You may also notice a decrease in gas mileage and power, particularly at the higher RPMs. If you don't see any of these symptoms, the cat is very probably OK.

A good hour's drive at 65 mph will burn most of everything out of the catalytic converter that is out of place there. It may have a similar effect in evaporating condensation and eroding carbon out of the mufflers and the rest of the exhaust system.

If you do have that throaty tone, then the guts of your mufflers are gone. Since they likely are starting to leak too, why wait? I will likely recommend the Borla mufflers after I get them because they are recognized as high-quality stainless steel, which equals or betters the quality of the GM replacements, and they come with a lifetime guarantee. I'm not likely to be turned off by the sound because I ride with the windows closed, and I've had a couple of cars with turbo mufflers before, including a tricked-out 1964 Chevrolet 327 and a 1969 Chevrolet 427. They weren't Borlas, which are supposed to have a much more refined tone than older turbo mufflers. Both cars were noisy, particularly the 327, and the 427 would pop out the tailpipe if revved it in park. I rode with the windows closed. A little exhaust note that is appropriate for an ETC may or may not be out of place on a DeVille. I'll let you know what I think when I hear it.

A turbo muffler is a small oval muffler that usually has either a straight-through or an S-shaped straight through pipe, with perforations into sound control chambers. They're modeled after the turbo Corvair mufflers of the 1960's. A number of people make them and they are all low restriction. Borla is one of the few that makes them in stainless steel.

The Green's Machines

1998 Deville - high mileage, keeps on going, custom cat-back exhaust

2003 Seville - stock low mileage goodness!

2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG - Smaller supercharger pulley, Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Dyno tune, etc

1998 Firebird Formula - 408 LQ9 Stroker motor swap and all sorts of go fast stuff

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I remember cadillac on the last year of the Eldorado had a specially tuned exhuast note to mimic the 59 eldorado sound, I have seen only one of the collectable numbered units but it was in a showroom so I didn't get to hear it.

The commemorative edition Eldorados had a "tuned" exhaust. I've heard ONE, ONCE. It sounds REALLY GOOD. I understand you have to provide a VIN for a CE Eldorado to order the parts at the dealer. But I'd love to have those mufflers.

Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond)

"When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?"

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The Borlas that I ordered came in. They are part number 40357 in lieu of 40658. The 40357 isn't in the Borla catalog. The substitute mufflers are slightly larger than the 40658 but will go fine in my ETC.

My concern is that you can see two inches of daylight peering through these mufflers. I have no idea whether they are street legal or not. If anybody has seen the 40658's and knows whether or not they are straight-through as opposed to an S-pipe inside, please let me know. Also, if anyone has a clue whether or not the 40357 series is a street-legal Turbo muffler like the 40658 or a racing muffler, let me know.

A detailed examination of the damage to the exhaust system reveals that there is a crimp in front of the right muffler, and the tips on the left muffler are mangled. The Y appears to be on the left muffler. The right muffler is on the Y with a clamp! Both stock mufflers are ordered and the fabrication shop will make the pipes needed to splice in my Borlas. The car will likely be ready next Tuesday, detailed and Borla-ed.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I found the 40357 on the Borla web site. The 40658 is a Turbo muffler for general replacement in applications with small to medium displacement engines, while the 40357 is in the TS series which emphasizes performance. The 40658 is also a straight-through muffler. Differences will be in design, such as the holes in the straight-through pipe and the cavities in the muffler body (the 40357 is slightly larger). The 40357 is almost certainly a louder muffler than the 40658. I don't know if there is any difference in performance. I'll get the car Tuesday and drive it, and if I like it I will cancel the order for the 40658's.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I got the car back today. The body shop sent the car, with the Borla 40357's, to Meineke along with some used mufflers with tips from another Cadillac. I didn't get the year but I believe that they are from a 1994 STS.

The exhaust note is subdued and low in pitch. In normal driving in traffic, they don't stand out at all, and with the windows closed you can't hear them over the radio. On moderate throttle they issue an authoritative low-pitched mutter -- a classic Borla statement of authority. I did this once on the way home to handle a horsy V8 pickup truck that was going to inadvertently cut me off from making my exit, a thoughtless lack of respect that evaporated when the exhaust tone announced politely that I was at quarter throttle in 4th while handling the situation adroitly.

In the garage, I opened the window and revved the car gently to 3,000 RPM several times. Nothing. These are Borla XS Turbo mufflers, but I believe that the basic Northstar exhaust design -- double 4 to 1, then 2 to1, then a catalytic converter about 18 inches down, then a 2.25" pipe to the rear, then a Y to two 2" pipes to twin mufflers, then 2.25" to inverted Y's to cooled tips -- is inherently quiet, while giving maximum power by providing a resonator in the catalytic converter exactly where it needs to be for an exhaust resonance at the proper RPM. Meineke says that the Northstar doesn't need a low-restriction catalytic converter, and I agree. All the Borlas are going to do is eliminate the back pressure of the Cadillac whisper-quiet mufflers and give you a dignified but authoritative exhaust note. My plan was to set up my digital camera on MOVIE with sound on a tripod, then get in and rev it a few times. I need to develop a Plan B with an assistant doing the recording while I take off from a stop, or I won't have any sound bytes of interest to post here.

One thing that I did notice is that the instantaneous gas mileage at cruise at any speed above 30 mph is noticeably higher, and the effect increases with speed. In a couple of days I will know whether I am getting my target of 1 MPG improvement in each tank of gas. It does look very much like I will. This doesn't count the gas mileage hit I had while driving with a damaged exhaust system.

There were a lot of history codes:

# P0121 - TP Sensor Circuit Insufficient Activity

# P0204 - Injector 4 Control Circuit

# P0206 - Injector 6 Control Circuit

# P0603 - Control Module Long Term Memory Reset

# P0758 - 2-3 Shift Solenoid Circuit Electrical

# P1645 - Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Vent Solenoid Control Circuit

# B1552 - Keep Alive Memory (KAM) Error

# B1740 - Driver Seat Front Down Switch Circuit Malfunction

# B1983 - Device Power Circuit Low

# C1255 - EBCM Internal Malfunction

The P0603 and B1740 were there when it went into the shop. What all this tells me is that, probably at Meineke, they probably disconnected the transmission connection at one time, they let it sit and idle a very long time probably to get the engine hot to check for rattles and leaks, and the battery was low, probably because of the move-it-here, move-it-there at the body shop for a week before Meineke got it. I'm going to drive it to work and home tomorrow, which should charge the battery to max and clear out the cobwebs, then clear the codes and don't expect to see any after that except P0603 and perhaps B1740, and will track down anything else I see.

I haven't tried WOT to a redline shift yet. I generally don't do those except when necessary to deal with merging traffic involving on-ramps or some such traffic non-engineering. So, watch my car blog for further developments. I think we've served the purpose of this thread.

CTS-V_LateralGs_6-2018_tiny.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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Hey Jim...

A Chrysler totaled Itself in the back of my 1995 STS,and that was the perfect opportunity to get some new mufflers.Did a lot of thinking and research.I was going to get Turbo Mufflers too,but decided to go with Magnaflow Stainless Steel mufflers 2.5 In inlet/outlet.They are a almost exact match in size with the originals.The only thing is that they're Straight through.

They sound awseome,and they don't bother my wife and I could hear the Bose too...

No MPG improvement.Only gain is a 500rmps more at full throtle.It switches gears around 6500 now consistently.

My brother has Borlas and they're louder and I don't think more quality then the Magnaflows

Cat Back including stainless steel Pipe $ 700 (100 a muffler)

Florin

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