serp belt that eliminates a/c

[chriscisme]

has anyone used one, does it work, what size belt do i need...very im portant i get a working caddy, need to drive to college soon

also, if i get one on those a/c pulley replacement things that eliminates the a/c...do i have to remove the compressor

[chriscisme]

people also say that they will put on the shorter belt tem porarily until htey fix the ac, but i dont mind eliminating the ac all together..so can i use a shorter belt for as long as i want

[MAC]

Search this topic under the word "bypass" A/C compressor. There is a specific belt number mentioned. I have bypassed the A/C compressor without a problem. The belt I mentioned worked but it could have been about 1/2 inch shorter.

[BodybyFisher]

See this thread also page 1, see Paul and BodybyFisher

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...1&hl=bypass

[PAUL T]

I have been running on my shorter belt for almost 3 years and no problems. Belt size is 73.9" or 74".

[injectedls1]

Sorry to dig up an old thread here, but will the 74" belt also be effective on the pre-northstar 4.9L in my 92 STS?

Thanks!

[BodybyFisher]

AC/Delco 6K739 for the NS

We don't believe the AC compressor can be by-passed on the 4.9

[injectedls1]

Ok, I will just pick up the bypass pulley then.

Thanks

[BodybyFisher]

You can see the problem by looking at this scan. We have thought about this before, I don't think the angle is correct, it may rub on the AC pulley, but check to see if its possible

[injectedls1]

I just came across this diagram on another site along with some claims that this setup is working despite the fact that it has much less contact with the water pump.

I will probably give it a try, worst case scenario - I'm stuck with a useless belt.

Length is 62 inches. Part numbers are Duralast 620K6 or Dayco 6PK1575 as shown.

Edited June 25, 2008 by injectedls1

[BodybyFisher]

That is interesting, but you are skirting the water pump, hopefully you will apply enough pressure on the water pump so that it does not slip. Keep in mind that you wil be using the back of the belt which is smooth, and the WP pulley on the 4.9 is also smooth.

Good research and good idea! Let us know how this turns out.

[injectedls1]

Thanks, I will update after the install.

[JimD]

Belt and pulley engineering recommends a drive belt contact a minimum of 33% of the pulley circumference (tensioners and idlers excluded). Most belt applications contact more than 50% of the pulley circumference.

Good luck and keep a eye on cooling system performance.

[KHE]

Why do you want to bypass the compressor? Is the clutch bearing bad?

[injectedls1]

I have the "Very Low Refrigerant : A/C Compressor Off" warning. Rather than converting the system to a legal form of freon, or taking the chance that the compressor might seize up and cause damage I would rather bypass it. I have never used the AC in this vehicle.

[BodybyFisher]

I have the "Very Low Refrigerant : A/C Compressor Off" warning. Rather than converting the system to a legal form of freon, or taking the chance that the compressor might seize up and cause damage I would rather bypass it. I have never used the AC in this vehicle.

You can have your system evacuated and recharged with the proper freon. Why not just do that? There is no need to convert it.

[injectedls1]

You can have your system evacuated and recharged with the proper freon. Why not just do that? There is no need to convert it.

Hmmm, I was informed that 134a required all new hoses because it's molecular structure is smaller causing it to seep through r-12 hoses. I was also told that the oils used to lubricate each system are incompatible with each other and therefore all components must be replaced. I have no experience with AC so that is all word of mouth advice.

I actually considered having it refilled with r-12 (I found a shop that has it), but it is significantly more expensive. I only paid $1000 for this car, so I can't see dropping $500 on a feature I would rarely use.

[BodybyFisher]

You can have your system evacuated and recharged with the proper freon. Why not just do that? There is no need to convert it.

Hmmm, I was informed that 134a required all new hoses because it's molecular structure is smaller causing it to seep through r-12 hoses. I was also told that the oils used to lubricate each system are incompatible with each other and therefore all components must be replaced. I have no experience with AC so that is all word of mouth advice.

I actually considered having it refilled with r-12 (I found a shop that has it), but it is significantly more expensive. I only paid $1000 for this car, so I can't see dropping $500 on a feature I would rarely use.

Our AC members will stop by but, I don't think you will need to spend $500, unless you have damaged parts. 134 does not require much of a change, but the correct amount of 134 is needed. Stay tuned, someone with more experience on this subject will stop by.

[injectedls1]

Our AC members will stop by but, I don't think you will need to spend $500, unless you have damaged parts. 134 does not require much of a change, but the correct amount of 134 is needed. Stay tuned, someone with more experience on this subject will stop by.

Hopefully they can also give me their .02 on freeze-12 and some of the other R12 substitutes that run much cheaper. I'll stick around to find out before I go swapping belts and taking things apart.

[BodybyFisher]

Our AC members will stop by but, I don't think you will need to spend $500, unless you have damaged parts. 134 does not require much of a change, but the correct amount of 134 is needed. Stay tuned, someone with more experience on this subject will stop by.

Hopefully they can also give me their .02 on freeze-12 and some of the other R12 substitutes that run much cheaper. I'll stick around to find out before I go swapping belts and taking things apart.

Give the board a day to come by, we have a member KHE that is familiar with the AC systems, who will come in and help. If he doesnt send him a PM and direct him to this thread.

[KHE]

If you never intend to use the A/C, just leave it - the compressor won't sieze. The ACM disables the compressor when the refrigerant gets too low to prevent it from being damaged.

It would be interesting to know where the system is leaking. If you intend to use an alternative refrigerant which would be a blend, it is critical that you repair any leaks as any leaks will compromise the blend ratio of the alternative refrigerant. Look for oily/greasy residue on the A/C components (lines, fittings, pressure switches, compressor body, compressor clutch, etc.). It could be a simple shaft seal on the compressor.

Freeze-12 is a blend of R-134a and R-142b - the R-142b is in the mix to blend and circulate the mineral refrigerant oil in the system. I have not used it but have used Autofrost R-406a in my old Park Avenue with excellent results. The caution is the Cadillac systems use thermisters to sense the proper refrigerant quantity - a lesser amount of the blend refrigerants are required for optimum performance and a lesser amount of refrigerant in the system may set the low refrigerant codes/message and disable the compressor.

[injectedls1]

If you never intend to use the A/C, just leave it - the compressor won't sieze. The ACM disables the compressor when the refrigerant gets too low to prevent it from being damaged.

It would be interesting to know where the system is leaking. If you intend to use an alternative refrigerant which would be a blend, it is critical that you repair any leaks as any leaks will compromise the blend ratio of the alternative refrigerant. Look for oily/greasy residue on the A/C components (lines, fittings, pressure switches, compressor body, compressor clutch, etc.). It could be a simple shaft seal on the compressor.

Freeze-12 is a blend of R-134a and R-142b - the R-142b is in the mix to blend and circulate the mineral refrigerant oil in the system. I have not used it but have used Autofrost R-406a in my old Park Avenue with excellent results. The caution is the Cadillac systems use thermisters to sense the proper refrigerant quantity - a lesser amount of the blend refrigerants are required for optimum performance and a lesser amount of refrigerant in the system may set the low refrigerant codes/message and disable the compressor.

Ok great information, thanks.

I've gathered that a kit with special fittings and hoses is required to add Freeze-12 to an R12 system. Add that to the fact that Freeze-12 appears to contain R-134a which can wear out seals on an R-12 system, and it sounds like a bad solution.

Thanks for the advice!

Edit: After researching all morning I think I've made up my mind to try Freeze-12. I can't find any reviews on Autofrost, and I can't find anyone who supplies it. I have seen a dozen or so good reviews for Freeze-12, and it is very cheap. If it wears the seals out or leaks then I will bypass it.

I will be using the kit below, and plan to just add the Freeze-12 to whatever R-12 remains in the system. I will have to double check, but I think mine holds 4.5lbs. I'll add the oil charge initially then the leak stop later if the system gets low again.

Any tips or pointers?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FREEZE-12-R...0262303006&

Edited June 26, 2008 by injectedls1

[KHE]

If you never intend to use the A/C, just leave it - the compressor won't sieze. The ACM disables the compressor when the refrigerant gets too low to prevent it from being damaged.

It would be interesting to know where the system is leaking. If you intend to use an alternative refrigerant which would be a blend, it is critical that you repair any leaks as any leaks will compromise the blend ratio of the alternative refrigerant. Look for oily/greasy residue on the A/C components (lines, fittings, pressure switches, compressor body, compressor clutch, etc.). It could be a simple shaft seal on the compressor.

Freeze-12 is a blend of R-134a and R-142b - the R-142b is in the mix to blend and circulate the mineral refrigerant oil in the system. I have not used it but have used Autofrost R-406a in my old Park Avenue with excellent results. The caution is the Cadillac systems use thermisters to sense the proper refrigerant quantity - a lesser amount of the blend refrigerants are required for optimum performance and a lesser amount of refrigerant in the system may set the low refrigerant codes/message and disable the compressor.

Ok great information, thanks.

I've gathered that a kit with special fittings and hoses is required to add Freeze-12 to an R12 system. Add that to the fact that Freeze-12 appears to contain R-134a which can wear out seals on an R-12 system, and it sounds like a bad solution.

Thanks for the advice!

Edit: After researching all morning I think I've made up my mind to try Freeze-12. I can't find any reviews on Autofrost, and I can't find anyone who supplies it. I have seen a dozen or so good reviews for Freeze-12, and it is very cheap. If it wears the seals out or leaks then I will bypass it.

I will be using the kit below, and plan to just add the Freeze-12 to whatever R-12 remains in the system. I will have to double check, but I think mine holds 4.5lbs. I'll add the oil charge initially then the leak stop later if the system gets low again.

Any tips or pointers?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FREEZE-12-R...0262303006&

Please do not add Freeze 12 to the existing R-12 charge... first, it is illegal, second, the R-134a can react with the R-12 and eat the system from the inside out, and third, it may contaminate someone's recovery machine in the event the car is serviced by an AC shop. Your system capacity is in the 2.0 lb. range.

Leak-stop for AC systems is snake oil.... None of it works long term and if the system needs to be recovered for proper service, some of the stop leaks contaminate the filter on a recovery machine.

If you do not find and repair the leak, the R-134a, Freeze-12, etc. will leak out FASTER than the R-12 due to the smaller molecule size.

[injectedls1]

Please do not add Freeze 12 to the existing R-12 charge... first, it is illegal, second, the R-134a can react with the R-12 and eat the system from the inside out, and third, it may contaminate someone's recovery machine in the event the car is serviced by an AC shop. Your system capacity is in the 2.0 lb. range.

Leak-stop for AC systems is snake oil.... None of it works long term and if the system needs to be recovered for proper service, some of the stop leaks contaminate the filter on a recovery machine.

If you do not find and repair the leak, the R-134a, Freeze-12, etc. will leak out FASTER than the R-12 due to the smaller molecule size.

I have read testimony from people who've added Freeze-12 to R-12 with no issues (I don't believe everything I read on the internet). Couldn't I just tell the AC mechanic that the system was contaminated? Besides that, I don't plan to repair it if it breaks, and I won't be selling this car. This is a one time all or nothing- fix it or bypass it situation, and I want to get it done as cheaply as possible.

Knowing that I don't plan to pay hundreds of dollars to solve this issue, how would I drain the R-12 from the system? Am I better off buying some R12 off ebay? Do you have a better suggestion?

thanks for the advice

[KHE]

Please do not add Freeze 12 to the existing R-12 charge... first, it is illegal, second, the R-134a can react with the R-12 and eat the system from the inside out, and third, it may contaminate someone's recovery machine in the event the car is serviced by an AC shop. Your system capacity is in the 2.0 lb. range.

Leak-stop for AC systems is snake oil.... None of it works long term and if the system needs to be recovered for proper service, some of the stop leaks contaminate the filter on a recovery machine.

If you do not find and repair the leak, the R-134a, Freeze-12, etc. will leak out FASTER than the R-12 due to the smaller molecule size.

I have read testimony from people who've added Freeze-12 to R-12 with no issues (I don't believe everything I read on the internet). Couldn't I just tell the AC mechanic that the system was contaminated? Besides that, I don't plan to repair it if it breaks, and I won't be selling this car. This is a one time all or nothing- fix it or bypass it situation, and I want to get it done as cheaply as possible.

Knowing that I don't plan to pay hundreds of dollars to solve this issue, how would I drain the R-12 from the system? Am I better off buying some R12 off ebay? Do you have a better suggestion?

thanks for the advice

Just because someone on the internet has performed an improper repair and got the system to function does not mean that it will hold up long term or the two refrigerants won't react and create an acid that will eat the evaporator core...

You can't legally vent ANY refrigerant to the atmosphere. If it were my car, I would have the leak located and repaired. It could be that it is so small of a leak that it took years to leak down enough for the low refrigerant code to set. Then have a shop recharge it with R-12. If you just want to top it off you could buy a can of R-12 on ebay but you'll need a charging hose also. You also need EPA-609 certification to buy R-12 even off ebay although there are some sellers who don't ask for an EPA number.

Improper repair techniques and venting of refrigerants is why R-12 is restricted and costs so much these days...