Digital/Analog Cluster Interchangeability

[Poobah]

I've got some crud on the digital read-outs in my instrument cluster. It looks like I would have to remove the cluster from the dash in order to clean it. If I have to take it apart, I would prefer an analog cluster. If I can find an analog cluster for a reasonable price, would it install as a direct replacement part for the digital cluster? Would the mounting, wiring, plugs, and external electronics be the same or would there be more to it than just changing out the cluster?

Thanks in advance for any info.

[Logan]

It is a drop in....plug and play.

You do have to cut a window on the upper trim for the 'heads up' display.

I do have a DTS cluster.....but it is untested. Been too hot to swap it with mine for testing. It has 29K.

[Poobah]

It is a drop in....plug and play.

You do have to cut a window on the upper trim for the 'heads up' display.

Logan,

Thanks for the info - I was hoping that would be the case! What is the 'heads up' display for? My digital cluster doesn't have one. I'm looking at an analog cluster on E-bay right now but if the price goes too high, I'll let you know.

BTW, I hadn't been very active on caddyinfo until I got this new Deville. What was the final outcome of the Fake DTS's hail damage?

Regards,

[Logan]

It is a drop in....plug and play.

You do have to cut a window on the upper trim for the 'heads up' display.

Logan,

Thanks for the info - I was hoping that would be the case! What is the 'heads up' display for? My digital cluster doesn't have one. I'm looking at an analog cluster on E-bay right now but if the price goes too high, I'll let you know.

BTW, I hadn't been very active on caddyinfo until I got this new Deville. What was the final outcome of the Fake DTS's hail damage?

Regards,

The 'heads up' display can be seen it the picture. It is a reverse display that refects off the cluster lens. Look close and you can see the digital MPH display on the lens. It creates a floating display effect.

As for the Fake DTS hail damage. New hood, fender, decklid, rear plate, taillight, new window and door trim, traditional body materials on doors and quarter, PDR on roof.

$8200 + $600 car rental= $8800

[Poobah]

One more question: Do the 2000 Cadillacs store their milage in the cluster or in the computer? In other words, if I changed clusters, would the new cluster read out the milage on the car or the milage on the cluster?

[Logan]

One more question: Do the 2000 Cadillacs store their milage in the cluster or in the computer? In other words, if I changed clusters, would the new cluster read out the milage on the car or the milage on the cluster?

It would display mileage of cluster. That can easily be reprogrammed to the correct mileage at a Delco speedometer shop.

[Poobah]

It's been a couple of months since I started this thread but I'm about ready to change my instrument cluster.

I got an analog cluster on Ebay for $40 including shipping. It looks perfect (I hope it works - I will get it checked by a speedometer shop before I install it).

I am negotiating for a bezel/wood trim piece (I would rather use a DTS bezel than cut my original one). The trim was a lot harder to find than the cluster and will likely cost more.

I have some installation questions (Logan, if you read this, I would appreciate your advice on this). I have a Factory Service Manual so I'm not flying blind, here. I may have a body shop do the actual installation because I know how these projects can become a whole lot more hassle than I originally think!

My first concern is the air bags and the risk of accidental deployment. The FSM gives all the standard SIR warnings in the instrument panel sections. How big a deal is it, really? I'm just not familiar working around air bags.

My second concern is how big a project is this likely to become? The FSM says I have to take off the windshield post moldings and the upper dash pad before I get into removing the cluster and the trim piece. It says you just unscrew this, unsnap that, and unplug something else. I know from experience that things are rarely as simple as they sound. Dashboard work is not something I have much experience with and I would have a great deal of difficulty doing any work up underneath the dash if that became necessary. Add to that, the fact that I would have to be working around the steering wheel which could make it hard to see things and reach things.

My third concern is the cluster settings. I know the milage stored in the cluster has to be reset to match the actual vehicle milage. I read something in the manual (but can't find it now) that referred to other vehicle settings in the cluster that have to be reset. Is this necessary (and if so, what settings would be included)?

Lastly, are there any booby traps or other heads up type items to look out for?

I am really looking forward to installing the new cluster. I think it will be a very nice upgrade for this car.

Thank you in advance for your help.

[Logan]

It is pretty simple...you just unscrew this, unsnap that, and unplug something else.

The side pillar trim pops right off.

Each air vent has to come out. There are small clips that hold those in. Very hard to see the clips but they are there. Hidden screw above each vent.

Defroster vent comes out, then 3-4 long screws there holding the dash pad on. Remove dash pad.

Once the dash pad is off. Remove some of the plastic wood trim....cluster is right there...easy swap.

AIRBAGS: Disconnect the battery 15 minutes before you start. Should be ok after capacitors in SDM module discharge.

Wood trim/ window. You will find the DTS wood trim to be much darker then the factory plastic trim. Too dark to match the rest of the interior. The good news is there are molding lines marked on the inside of the factory plastic trim piece for a 'window.' Pretty easy to cut...plus you cannot see the cuts once installed in the car.

[Poobah]

Wood trim/ window. You will find the DTS wood trim to be much darker then the factory plastic trim. Too dark to match the rest of the interior. The good news is there are molding lines marked on the inside of the factory plastic trim piece for a 'window.' Pretty easy to cut...plus you cannot see the cuts once installed in the car.

Logan,

Thank you for the info. Do I understand you correctly that the DTS wood trim color does not match the base model Deville wood trim? I was not aware that there are molding lines to indicate where to cut the window. It sounds like modifying the existing trim piece is the best way to go.

Thanks.

[Logan]

Wood trim/ window. You will find the DTS wood trim to be much darker then the factory plastic trim. Too dark to match the rest of the interior. The good news is there are molding lines marked on the inside of the factory plastic trim piece for a 'window.' Pretty easy to cut...plus you cannot see the cuts once installed in the car.

Logan,

Thank you for the info. Do I understand you correctly that the DTS wood trim color does not match the base model Deville wood trim? I was not aware that there are molding lines to indicate where to cut the window. It sounds like modifying the existing trim piece is the best way to go.

Thanks.

The DTS factory real wood trim is much darker then the base model plastic wood trim. Very dark like walnut.

On the cluster trim....on the hidden top side. I remember 3-4 molding lines 'boxes' on the trim. If I remember correctly....I picked one and used that 'box.' See cluster picture at beginning of this post.

[Poobah]

Logan,

I really appreciate your help on all of this!

I didn't realize the DTS dash trim is real wood. Of course it won't match the fake wood on the base Deville. That forces me to modify the original part.

I was concerned by the gaps in your original photo. The contour of the upper part of the bezel doesn't appear to match the contour of the display. I assumed the DTS part would have a molded edge at the cutout to better fit the overhead display surface. From the attached photo of the part I was going to buy, it appears that it has the same contour as the base model part after the window is cut out.

Apparently, if there is a box outline molded in the upper (hidden) face of the original part, Cadillac must have indended this modification to be made if the cluster was upgraded.

I know the gaps aren't too visible on the underside of the brow - but they are seen and they would snag a cleaning cloth. I hate to be too picky but I want the job to come off in a first rate manner that looks like the car came that way originally.

I think I will go ahead and too the job myself and do it the way you originally suggested. There is a rattle in the dash somewhere (I think it's in the area above or behind the A/C control box). I will look into that while I have the dash apart.

Again, I am grateful for your taking the time to advise me on all of this. The analog instrument cluster will make a nice (and very inexpensive) improvement to my car. I just want to be careful not to bugger things up.

Poobah

[Logan]

No, the cut in the original is fine. It may appear 'funny' due to the extreme angle of the picture. You can see a bit of the white cluster plastic. But that is due to the angle of the shot.

I attached a 'in car' as seen picture. You can clearly see the window and the 'floating' 0 mph and prndls display.

[Poobah]

I'm sold! I'll try for week-end after next. That should give me time enough to get the odometer reset. I'll let you know how it comes out.

Once again, I appreciate all your good council.

[tjtjwdad]

Just curious, how do you get the DIC to display what kinda of car ir is? It looks like your thumbnail says 2001 DTS.

Jim

[Logan]

Just curious, how do you get the DIC to display what kinda of car ir is? It looks like your thumbnail says 2001 DTS.

Jim

On the 1998 and newer Cadillacs. At startup you can program a message...basically it can display whatever you want...

'Welcome Mr Smith'

I think you can also have a driver #1 and driver #2. So if your wife uses the #2 remote it could display:

'Welcome Mrs Smith'

Up to 17 letter or symbols..Note: including spaces

In this case I put in: 2001 Cadillac DTS

Note that is exactly 17 letters AND spaces.

This can only be done using the dealer or factory GM Tech 2. Basically any words or letters... swear words or whatever you want.

Up to 17 letters and spaces..

For Poobah: I should also add. The gaps etc are a non issue. Typical GM gaps related to stack tolerences etc and dash boards. GM Gap City. Only very recently has GM really snugged up the IP gaps (2006).

[tjtjwdad]

Just curious, how do you get the DIC to display what kinda of car ir is? It looks like your thumbnail says 2001 DTS.

Jim

On the 1998 and newer Cadillacs. At startup you can program a message...basically it can display whatever you want...

'Welcome Mr Smith'

I think you can also have a driver #1 and driver #2. So if your wife uses the #2 remote it could display:

'Welcome Mrs Smith'

Up to 17 letter or symbols..Note: including spaces

In this case I put in: 2001 Cadillac DTS

Note that is exactly 17 letters AND spaces.

This can only be done using the dealer or factory GM Tech 2. Basically any words or letters... swear words or whatever you want.

Up to 17 letters and spaces..

For Poobah: I should also add. The gaps etc are a non issue. Typical GM gaps related to stack tolerences etc and dash boards. GM Gap City. Only very recently has GM really snugged up the IP gaps (2006).

Thanks. Mine says Driver 1 (or 2) depending on which FOB is used.

Jim

[chazglenn3]

I had mine programmed to show my full name with #1 and my wife's name with #2. First time riders always get a kick out of that feature

Charles

[Poobah]

Well, the plot thickens!

I checked into getting the odometer on my analog instrument cluster reset to match the digital one so the new cluster will give the correct reading after it has been installed. I called a spedometer shop and a body shop and they both told me the same thing: The only place that can do it is a Delco shop and they charge $300 because of the paperwork required by the State of California!

There has to be a less expensive way.

Any ideas?

P.S. Since posting the above, I found a guy in Troy, Michigan who will reset it. He charges $200 plus the return shipping. He said there is no paperwork issue in Michigan but he has to charge that much because the equipment he uses to do it is very expensive.

[Logan]

Well, the plot thickens!

I checked into getting the odometer on my analog instrument cluster reset to match the digital one so the new cluster will give the correct reading after it has been installed. I called a spedometer shop and a body shop and they both told me the same thing: The only place that can do it is a Delco shop and they charge $300 because of the paperwork required by the State of California!

There has to be a less expensive way.

Any ideas?

P.S. Since posting the above, I found a guy in Troy, Michigan who will reset it. He charges $200 plus the return shipping. He said there is no paperwork issue in Michigan but he has to charge that much because the equipment he uses to do it is very expensive.

Well..yeah that is a issue. The one cluster shop in Nashille no longer plays with them...."no money in fixing GM clusters" they say...

So...I never updated my mileage. I know the true mileage...but the cluster does not show that...I would have to fess up at any sale of the car...but for now...it works.

I would try the conversion first. It will work...then decide. Program the cluster NOW. Or wait until you can find a better rate to reprogram mileage.

It is basically a 5 minute procedure to reprogram the mileage....that being said...'reprogram the mileage using a $20k Delco cluster diagnostic tool.' ...Hmmm.....they have to make back every penny of that diagnostic tool..or they are out of business...

So...$200 may be quite reasonable.

As for Me? I'll wait until I sell the car. I'll either use a FED label or have the IPC reprogrammed.

[nigel]

i like that wood effect cluster trim, it looks much better than the gray plastic.

did they ever do one for a STS?

[Logan]

i like that wood effect cluster trim, it looks much better than the gray plastic.

did they ever do one for a STS?

Gray trim? What are you refering to?

Every Deville I have seen has some type of wood trim. Either the fake base model wood...or the real wood on the DHS or DTS.

Way back...maybe 10 years...I did test drive a '92 STS...before I bought the '93 Seville.

Strange...that '92 STS had factory gray trim instead of wood trim. Only one I have ever seen..

[nigel]

poobah posted this pic of a wood surround

on my STS it's gray plastic

[attachmentid=2890]

[Logan]

Ok...I see now...never noticed that.

Even the US spec STS shows gray trim..

The Deville and DTS always had wood over the speedo. Picture #1= Deville/DTS. Picture #2= US spec STS.

[Poobah]

A good way to answer this type of question is to look at the photos in E-bay cars for sale listings. I made a quick check just now and all the STS's I looked at had the gray plastic trim.

You might check E-bay under parts and accessories. There are usually a number of posts for after market wood dash trim kits. I would be sure to ask specifically what is included in these kits - the photos are often pretty generic and not necessarily of the make of car you are interested in.

[tjtjwdad]

A good way to answer this type of question is to look at the photos in E-bay cars for sale listings. I made a quick check just now and all the STS's I looked at had the gray plastic trim.

You might check E-bay under parts and accessories. There are usually a number of posts for after market wood dash trim kits. I would be sure to ask specifically what is included in these kits - the photos are often pretty generic and not necessarily of the make of car you are interested in.

The wood does look nice, wonder if the part for a DTS would fit on the SLS/STS models. My guess is it would.

Jim