Cars I "use to own" thread (Post yours!)

[tjtjwdad]

From my earliest days growing up:

(Mid-late 50's) VW Bug

1964 Ford Falcon

1965 Olds Delta 88

1971 Frod Torino

1972 Olds 98

1973 Ford Torino

I've owned:

1968 Chevy Bel Air

1970 Trans Am **

1979 Old Cutlass Supreme (Diesel)

1982 Ford Fairmont (Police Package)

1989 Mercury Sable

1992 Ford Bronco **

1992 Ford Taurus SHO

1996 Dodge Caravan

1998 Bonneville SSEi

2001 Cadillac STS **

2002 Ford Windstar **

** Currently own and drive!

[JimD]

Ok children! I was not going to join in here but the pre-WWII years should be mentioned.

First car was a '37 Ford purchased in '54. Had to rebuild the engine before I could drive it.

Most recent purchase was an '04 DTS.

Owned and drove too many (GM) makes/models over the years to remember them all. But several that hold a special memory slot are two VW Beetles and my commute-to-college Nash Metropolitan with the Austin A-40 4 cylinder hot-rod engine.

Special mention to my '55 Chevrolet BelAir tourquoise and blue two door hardtop. Too bad it was a hot-water 6 cylinder model.

I would not trade my '98 Seville for any of these older cars as a daily driver.

[blue_eldo]

This list of used to own does not include the 6 that I currently own and have registered

4 of which are Cadillacs!

60 VW Beetle

63 Pontiac Grand Prix

69 Z28 Camero

71 MGB

73 Porsche 914 2.0

72 Porsche 911E 2.7 had from 1974 to 1999

67 Ford Station Wagon

67 Fairlane Wagon

67 Ford Country Squire

67 Saab Monte Carlo

69 Saab 96

75 Saab 99

72 Volvo 164E

78 Saab 99 Turbo

79 Chevelle - Police Package

a long string of Taurus company cars

93 Dodge Caravan

91 Deville

94 Deville

Does anyone see a pattern here?

Yes I am Nuts!

And this is why. See what you can do to your kids!

Parents cars

37 Ford Phaton conv

49 Cadillac Fleetwood

50 Fordillac

52 Fordillac

53 Studillac

55 Tbird - Cadillac powered

56 Sedan Deville

62 Cadillac Fleetwood

68 Chevy P.U. 396 later 427

66 Corvair Crown conversion 427

94 Chevy Blazer

[Bob D]

Ok children! I was not going to join in here but the pre-WWII years should be mentioned.

First car was a '37 Ford purchased in '54. Had to rebuild the engine before I could drive it.

Most recent purchase was an '04 DTS.

Owned and drove too many (GM) makes/models over the years to remember them all. But several that hold a special memory slot are two VW Beetles and my commute-to-college Nash Metropolitan with the Austin A-40 4 cylinder hot-rod engine.

Special mention to my '55 Chevrolet BelAir tourquoise and blue two door hardtop. Too bad it was a hot-water 6 cylinder model.

>"I would not trade my '98 Seville for any of these older cars as a daily driver."<

You know, I have to agree with Jim here...of that list of some 50+ cars I've owned in the last 40 odd years, my STS is (and proabably will stay) my all around favorite..

[Texas Jim]

And this is why. See what you can do to your kids!

Parents cars

50 Fordillac

52 Fordillac

53 Studillac

55 Tbird - Cadillac powered

Thanks,

Haven't seen a reference to a Fordallac or a Studeillac in a looonng time. Had a couple of them myself.

[Cadillac Jim]

I'm not going to bore you with all of my cars. The ones that may be of interest here include:

1966 Corvette 390 hp 427 (more later, with picture)

1964 Chevrolet Impala station wagon; used & much modified by me -- see below

1973 Chevrolet Caprice Estate 454; EPA 9 mpg city, 9 mpg highway, sold after a year

1969 Chevrolet Station wagon; 400 hp 427 ci engine; used, had seven years

1990 Pontiac Grand Am with Quad 4 HO; immediate ancestor of Northstar

1997 Cadillac ETC, my baby

The 1964 Chevrolet came with a 250 hp small-journal 327 and a three-speed manual transmission. It had about 85,000 miles on it when I got it. The oil filter had 7 gaskets under it, betraying a poor maintenance history. It ran fine but it burned a quart of oil every 75 miles, which is more than an outboard motor with a quart-per-five-gallon premix. The parts manager used the heads on his 283 ci street engine, and told me later that the oil apparently was all going down the valve guides. I picked out parts from the Chevrolet catalog and rebuilt the engine. Parts that remained from the original were pretty much limited to:

• The block.
• The crankshaft.
• The flywheel.
• The vibration damper.
• Five of the rods.
• The water pump and fan.
• The oil pan.
• The bell housing.

The block was align bored and the crank was straightened. The rest was also blueprinted because the guys at the machine shop were family friends and they knew who I was. It also must have been a slow week. Three of the rods didn't make the cut and were pitched. New parts included, but are not limited to:

• Heads for a 375 hp Corvette, 2.02" intakes with 66 cc chambers.
• Dual valve springs for the 375 hp Corvette.
• Flat pistons for the 350 hp Corvette.
• Exhaust manifolds for the 375 hp Corvette with 2.5 inch outlets.
• High performance hydraulic cam for the 350 hp Corvette, the "151" cam still sold in the GM Performance Parts catalog.
• Intake manifold -- two inch high-rise Holley aluminum, for a 350 hp Corvette.
• Carburetor, 850 CFM Holley, for a 350 hp Corvette.
• Exhaust system -- 2.5 inch all the way, with four "turbo" mufflers.

I added a CDI ignition that I designed and built myself specifically for this car. I had put 15-inch wheels with 7-inch rims for the 1967 Corvette on it the day I got it and was running Michelin street tires. I had ceramic-metallic drum brakes from the day I got it. The immediate problem was that when the engine got on the cam in low gear, the suspension would bottom, front and rear, and the car would pitch up so that you couldn't see the road, even bumping your head on the headliner. We put nylon bushings and higher spring rates with matching shocks on it to keep the body under control, which, with the upgraded wheels and tires gave this car amazing handling for what it was. The next item was the transmission. The bearings would start growling after about two weeks of my lead-foot driving. After going through it three times, we got a Saginaw heavy-duty three-speed full-synchro that was used as a heavy duty option in later model Chevrolets. Its construction was identical to that of the 4-speed Muncie, except that the extension housing on the Muncie that contained the reverse gear was a shorter assembly in the Saginaw that simply supported the output shaft bearings, and reverse in the Saginaw was supported by an extra idler gear where the Muncie had low gear. The ratios were the same as the wide-box Muncie 4-speed's 1st and 2nd gears, so it was just like a Muncie wide box with 3rd gear missing. With the stock 3.08 gearing and tire and wheel upgrades, it drove like a close-ratio Muncie with low gear missing, and an overdrive high gear.

I put 1966 Corvette spinner hub caps over the industrial-looking Corvette wheels and that 1964 white-over-light metallic blue Impala station wagon looked like a family car. When the engine was running, it idled at about 1200 RPM with that 330-degree cam stutter, and a disconcertingly competent exhaust note. At a long red light, people would look around to see which car it was; when I noticed that, I looked around for it, too. You could tell by a faint body shake, though.

I have stories, but we all do. I will say that I once saw the underside of a Porsche 911 in my rear-view mirror...

[OynxSTS]

My list is much shorter

1970 Dodge Coronet (440 Too scary to drive)

1974 Dodge Dart (318 leaked water like a sieve)

1983 Camaro Z28 (305 Bought new, Still own, indestructible... and I tried!)

1985 Oldsmobile Cierra (inherited and sold to a friend)

1987 Oldsmobile 442 (307 soon to be 350, Still own, money pit)

1989 Volvo 740 (amazingly simple fuel injection system... fixed and flipped for profit)

1990 Honda Accord LX Coupe (married into it, she bought it new, sold to a friend)

1990.5 Cadillac Allante (4.5L Great car in the big parking lot in the sky...tear)

1991 Ford F150 XLT 4x4 (351 POS truck, happy to see it go)

1997 Chrysler Sebring JX (Flipped for profit)

1999 Toyota 4Runner Limited (Still own, ex-company car, now wife's car... built like a tank)

2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue GLX (3.5 Shortstar, bought new , ex-company car, best family car GM ever made... sold to my sister and she traded it on a Lexus)

2002 Cadillac STS (4.6 Northstar, mostly driven hard and put away wet)

[Cadillac Jim]

...

1970 Dodge Coronet (440 Too scary to drive)

...

1983 Camaro Z28 (305 Bought new, Still own, indestructible... and I tried!)

...

1987 Oldsmobile 442 (307 soon to be 350, Still own, money pit)

...

2002 Cadillac STS (4.6 Northstar, mostly driven hard and put away wet)

1970 Dodge 440 -- Maybe you should have tried wheel/tire/suspension/brake upgrades. Lots of great muscle cars could be turned into great overall performers that way.

1983 Cmararo Z28 -- wasn't that a 302? Please pardon the nit-picking . ;

1987 Olds 442 -- I thought that all of those came with a 400 ci engine. I guess that was up until about 1974, and they didn't have that by 1987. There's a small-block 400 that will take angle-plug fuelie heads, you know.

2002 Cadillac STS -- nice. I found that, on the West coast, everybody knew what an ETC/STS was. On the East coast, all Cadillac sedans and coupes are still sleepers.

[JasonA]

1987 Olds 442 -- I thought that all of those came with a 400 ci engine. I guess that was up until about 1974, and they didn't have that by 1987. There's a small-block 400 that will take angle-plug fuelie heads, you know.

The 442 came with a 330 engine in the mid 60s (a SBO, Small Block Olds). By the 1970 model year, the 442 was up to a 455 BBO engine. In the late '70s, the 442 was reduced mainly to a graphics/handing package, and came with a 350 SBO. During the '80s, it came with a warmed-over 307 SBO, but was still mainly handling and appearance.

Olds never made a small block 400. The SBO engines were 260/307/330/350/403. The BBO engines were 400/425/455.

There was a fuel-injected SBO -- the 350 Oldsmobile had digital injection in the Cadillac Seville -- starting in 1975 I believe.

And regarding the Chevy Camaro being a 302, Chevy hasn't had a 302 engine since the 1960s sometime I believe. The most common SBC engines during the 1970s and 1980s were the 265s, the 305s, and the 350s. Every GM division, besides Buick and Cadillac, had their own ~5-liter V-8. Chevy had a 305. Oldsmobile had their 307. Pontiac had a 301. Cadillac USED the Olds 307 a lot in the late '80s. The Pontiac 301 fizzled out in the early '80s. Eventually, the SBC design became GM's "corporate" design.

Ford used a 302-cui V-8...for the longest time...through the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

[The Fred]

This has been an interesting read

Sorry about posting when I was drinking but I still will stand by what was said by me.. it's really very true

[speedyman_2]

I'm 22 years old.

First car: 1965 Mustang Coupe

Engine: 289 V8

Transmission: C-4 Cruise-o-matic

Options: White Pony Interior & A/C

Mods: Dual 40 Series Flowmasters

Long tube Headers.

True Dual Exhaust.

Extras: 14x7 Cragar SS Mags

2nd Car: 1994 Camaro 3.4 5 speed.

And after the Camaro I got the '98 STS

[Cadillac Jim]

There is a small-block Chevrolet 400 that will take the 327/350 heads. It has its own block, crank, pistons, rods, and other parts, but it is indeed a small-block Chevrolet and has parts compatibility with the heads, cams, and some other parts. The 4.440 inch bore spacing and 4 1/8 bore means that the cylinders are siamesed – no coolant between the cylinders – and special attention is needed for head gaskets and head installation. This engine doesn't have the cooling for racing but it is a real candidate for a small block Chevrolet street engine.

In the 1970's and 1980's, Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Olds all had small-block engines that in some cases were very similar. The blocks and heads were distinct and parts were not interchangeable between families. The Buick small block was distinct from all of them. Similarities were interesting:

• All of the GM and Ford 301 CID and 302 CID engines were 4" X 3".
• There were at least three distinct GM 302 CID engines; some of them were small journal. I would expect that the Pontiac 302 CID was distinct from the high performance Chevrolet 302 used in the 1969 Z28 Camaro.
• The Chevrolet 327 and the Pontiac 326 were 4" X 3.25"
• Nearly all of the 400 CID engines were 4 1/8" X 3 3/4 ".
• The Olds small block was the only one that had enough water jacket for marine rating.

The GM corporate 307 engine was a Chevrolet small-journal small block. The 305 came later, when they went metric with some of their engines, as did the 262 Chevrolet V8 and such. Olds may have had an engine with the 307 CID displacement; I don't know about that.

While all of this was going on, Cadillac was going from 365 CID (1956-1958, 390 CID 1959-1963, 429 CID 1964-1967, 472 CID 1968-1969, 500 CID 1970-... and Cadillac was an innovator and performance leader. I believe that all of the OHV Cadillac engines of this era had enough cooling for marine use.

[OynxSTS]

In the 1970's and 1980's, Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Olds all had small-block engines that in some cases were very similar. The blocks and heads were distinct and were not interchangeable within families. The Buick small block was distinct from all of them.

Ouch! You will find a lot of Olds and Poncho nuts who would take that as "fighting words"

One interesting trivia bit Olds, Buick, Pontiac and Chev all made 350 engines. And as an Olds nut they are all quite different with few if any exchangeable parts. Buick engines have the distributor at the front like a mopar engine and was the lightest of the 350s. Olds 350 had the biggest bore of all of the 350s and had a fuel, water pump, and cam retention system a lot like a 5.0 Ford...

Similarities were interesting:

• All of the GM and Ford 301 ci and 302 ci engines were 4" X 3".
• There were at least three distinct GM 302 ci engines; some of them were small journal. I would expect that the Pontiac 302 ci was distinct from the high performance Chevrolet 302 used in the 1969 Z28 Camaro.
• The Chevrolet 327 and the Pontiac 326 were 4" X 3.25"
• Nearly all of the 400 ci engines were 4 1/8" X 3 3/4 ".
• The Olds small block was the only one that had enough water jacket for marine rating.

The GM corporate 307 engine was a Chevrolet small-journal small block. The 305 came later, when they went metric with some of their engines, as did the 262 Chevrolet V8 and such. Olds may have had an engine with the 307 ci displacement; I don't know about that.

The Chevy 302 was a 67/68/69 engine only and was built so the Z28 could comply with TransAm 5.0 Litre rules. It was based on a destroked 327 and yes had small and large journals. On the other hand the Chevy 350 was a based on a stroked out 327... A lot of the early 302, 327 and 350 block share casting numbers

and yes the poncho and Chevy motors are very different

Of course I'm biased, but in many ways the Olds 350 motor was the best designed of the bunch. Best bore, best intake ports, best rods, best valve train, best metallurgy. It is a total shame that like the North* the aftermarket has been really slow in providing hipo parts for these motors.

The olds 403 is also the grand daddy of bores at 4.351 x 3.385... This was installed in the 6.6 Litre Trans AM in the late 70's

PS regarding the 307 Olds GM made tons of these, it is the second most common Olds motor (next to the 350) and installed them in just about everything "big"... including a lot of Cadillacs. From 1980 until 1990, if it was a RWD GM it probably could be had with the Olds 307 (except Firebirds, Corvettes and Camaros)

Last bit of Olds motor trivia... All Old motors from the tiny 260 to the 455 look the same from the outside... the 400,425 and 455 are 1" taller but other then that the are the exact same length... making Olds motor swaps really easy...

[JasonA]

Yes, Oldsmobile V8 engines weren't very similar to their GM stablemates, except in the area of displacement. They shared a precious few parts from some Pontiac engines (like timing chains), but that's about it.

As Greg stated, the Oldsmobile 307 is almost the most common Oldsmobile V8 engine around, certainly in the '80s. The Olds 350 was aslo ubiquitous, back in the '70s. The Olds 403 was the largest SBO, and used siamesed cooling jackets. That engine tended to run warm. I put one in my '87 Buick Regal, from a '79 Olds Regency 98. Fast machine, that Buick. It came with the Olds 307 from the factory, so it was literally a bolt-in swap. Any late model Cadillac with an Oldsmobile 307 engine could take any SBO engine (260/330/307/350/403) as a bolt-in swap. And the big-blocks differed really only in deck height...so they were "wider" at the top, but could generaly be bolted right in.

The Oldsmobile blocks were among the largest, dimensionally, but also the lightest. They generally had the highest nickle content of any of the General's blocks. I totally agree with Greg's statement about the Olds 350 being a really nice engine. I love those SBO engines...

I guess I'll take this opportunity to give my relatively short list of previous vehicles.

First car: 1984 Olds Cutlass (307). Beautiful car. Bucket seats, console shifter, T-Tops factory chrome rally wheels.

Second car: 1987 Buick Regal (307/403). Total beater -- I bought it for $500, looking for something to swap a 403 into. Turned out a neat project, but I never had the money to fix it cosmetically. I sold it for what I had in the engine, which is only $500 more than I had in the car.

Third car: 1992 Ford Crown Victoria. 4.6L modular Ford V8. A truly excellent engine. That sucker ran and ran. It was mom's car, bought new, and I inherited it when she bought the '97 Seville that I now own. I sold the Crown Vic shortly thereafter, because I still had the Buick at the time and couldn't manage THREE cars (in college).

Fourth car: 1997 Saturn SC2. This was my wife's car, when we got married. Nice little coupe. Sunroof, leather seats, etc. Fun to drive, just very small. We sold it to buy the sixth vehicle.

Fifth car: 1997 Cadillac Seville. Still got it. Excellent car. My dream car, ever since I saw the 1992 Seville in Motor Trend.

Sixth car: 1995 Nissan truck. 4x4, 5-speed, 4-cyl, great little truck. It had 173k miles when I bought it, and I sold it to my brother with about 193k miles on it. He needed a second, 4wd, vehicle for the winters. He drives a supercharged C5. He still has both vehicles, probably with 200k+ on the truck.

Seventh car: 2003 Dodge Grand Caravan. Excellent van. Don't understand the infactuation over SUVs. With a new baby in the home, it just doesn't get easier than with a minivan. We may always have one, because it's the family sedan, it's the pickup truck, it's the baby hauler, etc. And nicely outfitted with 2nd row captains chairs, etc. Also a flex-fuel vehicle. And we get better city mileage than we'd have gotten on the highway with the Tahoe we were once considering.

Outlook. I'd love to have either:

1) My 1984 Olds Cutlass back. I still know her current owners.

2) My 1995 Nissan truck back. I really miss that truck, and miss having a stick shift.

3) A '97-'99 DeVille or DeVille d'Elegance in White Diamond or Shale Metallic.

Most practical would be #2, because if I got either #1 or #3, I don't know which vehicle would have to be parked outside (2 car garage). Decisions, decisions. One day...

[Cadillac Jim]

Onyx -- I said that the Buick, Olds, Pontiac, and Chevrolet engines were different, not the same. These shops obviously shared a lot of information but not many parts in the iron engine days. The Olds and Buick 350 CID didn't share the same bore and stroke as the Chevrolet, and the Pontiac was slightly different. The Pontiac 326 and 350 engines were visibly more strongly built than the Chevrolet 327 and 350, with more and larger head bolts and more robust valve train. As you say, the Olds was the only GM 350 CID with a bore larger than 4 inches. I don't think that there is any doubt that the Olds 350 was the strongest block, and as I said it was the only one that had enough water jacket cooling to be used in marine applications. The 307 CID Chevrolet V8 was basically a 283 CID V8 with a 3.25 inch stroke, and it was never made in a large journal block. So far as I know the GM corporate 307 was this engine, in everything that they used it in.

An interesting note is the 3.5 liter aluminum V8 that was shared by Buick, Olds and Pontiac starting in 1962 for a few years. GM sold the drawings and rights to Rover after they discontinued the engine, as they did with the old 235.5 CID Chevrolet in-line six-cylinder in 1962. The Chevrolet six, with improvements, became the Land Rover engine and the 3.5 liter V8, with updates, became the 3.5 liter Rover V8 that was around for many years in such diverse British platforms as the Triumph TR-8.

I once saw an aluminum version of the 60 hp. 2.2 liter flathead Ford V8 in a late 1950's Simca (see http://www.centuryinter.net/SIMCA/page2.html). At that time, Chevrolet's engines were the 235.5 CID straight six, 283 CID, the 348 CID, and the 409 CID. The 2.4 liter Corvair appeared in 1960. Cadillac's engines were 390 CID at the time, with 325 to 345 hp.

The Olds and Cadillac engine shops seem to have shared information since WW II. They came out with high compression short stroke OHV V8's with hydraulic lifters first, in 1949. More recently, the Olds Quad 4 was an ancestor of the Northstar as much as the 4.1/4.5/4.9, and the Aurora used a 4.0 liter version of the Northstar. The 4.0 liter version was the "Chevrolet" engine raced at Indianapolis for a few years recently.

[epricedright]

I grew up around Fords, my father was a metallurgy engineer at the Indianapolis Ford plant, so all my parents ever bought were Fords. They had:

56 Lincoln Premiere Convertible (still in the garage needing to be restored badly)

67 Corvair Convertible...sold before it became a collectible

64 Ford Falcoln Sprint Convertible...also sold before it became a collectible

68 Mustang Convertible 289 - He sold that for $1500 in '76 I believe...before the rage hit.

Then many LTD's, Tauruses, Sables, F150s, E150 Vans, Explorers, etc, etc.

Vehicles I've personally owned:

67 Dodge Coronet 440 - Fun, Fast High School Ride

60's really small Japanese Datsun that wasn't made for export...before Datsun was exported to the U.S. I can't remember what model it was...very rare though...and very unsafe I remember! I remember taking an exit and thought it was going to flip over. Sold it quick after that. Very short wheelbase and extremely narrow car. Looked like a miniature Rolls Royce. Probably a collectible now. Bought it for $40.00! Sold it for $200.00

73 Pinto - Learned to drive with that POS...but hey, it had a sunroof!

75 VW rabbitt - College car...had some times with that one.

76 Datsun Pickup.

78 Sleekcraft 23' Executive Cuddy Jet boat...Hopped up Ford 460.

1979 Cadillac Coupe Deville. Flipped for profit. Not a ’78 as stated earlier.

81 Camaro

84 Ford F50

85 Mercury Grand Marquis...beater car.

85 Mustang GT. Bought new on A plan.

86 Ford F150 Supercab.

87 Ford Ranger Supercab. Bought new on A plan.

87 Chevy S10 4X4 King Cab.

88 Toyota 4Runner. Winter beater...still have.

89 Chevy full size custom van. Bought when it was 6 months old. Loved it!

92 Honda Accord. Bought new. Zero problems for 4 years.

93 Dodge Grand caravan SE...still have, has been very dependable transportation

94 Cadillac Sedan Deville 4.9. Still have. My baby!

96 Impala SS. Bought when it was 1 year old. Miss that car - that was my baby - until my wife wrecked it...had to sell it since I knew it would never be the same.

[JasonA]

The 307 CID Chevrolet V8 was basically a 283 CID V8 with a 3.25 inch stroke, and it was never made in a large journal block. So far as I know the GM corporate 307 was this engine, in everything that they used it in.

Jim, if you're talking about from the 60s or early 70s, yes, the 307 was a Chevrolet block. The Oldsmobile 307 engine debuted in the very early 1980s, and any 307 V-8 in a GM car in the 1980s was that Oldsmobile engine. I don't think the Chevrolet-blocked 307 lasted past the mid 1970s.

Interestingly, the Olds 307 lasted through the 1990 model year. It was GM's last carbureted V8 engine. I've been to the Oldsmobile museum in Lansing, MI, and have seen that very last Rocket motor that went down the line. It's signed by all the line workers on that shift.

[Cadillac Jim]

The 307 CID Chevrolet V8 was basically a 283 CID V8 with a 3.25 inch stroke, and it was never made in a large journal block. So far as I know the GM corporate 307 was this engine, in everything that they used it in.

Jim, if you're talking about from the 60s or early 70s, yes, the 307 was a Chevrolet block. The Oldsmobile 307 engine debuted in the very early 1980s, and any 307 V-8 in a GM car in the 1980s was that Oldsmobile engine. I don't think the Chevrolet-blocked 307 lasted past the mid 1970s.

Interestingly, the Olds 307 lasted through the 1990 model year. It was GM's last carbureted V8 engine. I've been to the Oldsmobile museum in Lansing, MI, and have seen that very last Rocket motor that went down the line. It's signed by all the line workers on that shift.

Jason -- thanks. I lost interest in cars in the 80's. It seemed that the automobile was just a commodity in the 1980's. I assumed that things were as dull in the trenches as they were on the street, and there lies my error. I drove a 1969 Cheverolet 427 and a 1977 Cheverolet 350 through those years. I didn't get excited about late model cars again until I drove a Quad 4 HO.

[JasonA]

Those Quad 4s were great little cars. For the longest time, I wanted a W41 Quad 4.

[Cadillac Jim]

The Quad 4 and Quad OHC family was quite a menagerie. The Quad 4 started life as a 160 HP aluminum head OHC 4-valve-per-cylinder engine. It had an iron block, though. At 2260 cc, it had 65 horsepower per liter. The second year they came out with a 180 hp version, the H.O.; this is 80 hp per liter. A couple of years later they bumped the horsepower to 190 for the HO, or 84 hp per liter. In a Northstar's displacement of 4565 cc, 65 hp per liter is 298 hp, 80 hp per liter is 365 hp, and 84 hp per liter is 383 hp. The differences between the 160 hp and 180 hp were resonances in the fuel injection intake manifold and exhaust, and different heads and cams. What this tells us that CHRFAB is telling the truth about 400 hp normally aspirated Northstars.

I saw on another post here recently that the Northstar first prototype was called a Quad 8. It has a cam drive similar to that of of the Quad 4 and the bore and stroke are very similar.

[tjtjwdad]

I grew up around Fords & Oldsmobiles. But I became a Pontiac Trans Am fan the first time I laid eyes in one in the fall of 1971 when my uncle showed up at our house driving one (1970 model). Like today, in those days you just didn't see many of them around, just under 7300 produced across those 4 model years. Pontiac also produced a 5 liter engine (303 I believe) but it was never available in the production cars. I believe it was one of the Ram Air V flavors from Pontiac.

Anyway, through the years one thing about Pontiac engines is that the 326, 350, 389, 400, 428 & 455 model shared the same components. Heads, intake/exhaust manifolds, camshafts etc ... The 428 & 455 had 3"crankshaft journals while the other's had 3" journals. You couldn't put a 400 crank in a 455 but you could go the other way around.

I still think some of the best sleepers out there are the Buick Grand Sport and Olds 442 of the 1968-70 era.

Jim

[Cadillac Jim]

The Pontiac 7 liter was a 421. I believe that the 5 litre was a 302, althought they may have called it a 301 to distinguish it from the Chevrolet 302's. Their "Iron Duke" 151 CID four was half a Pontiac 302. The Iron Duke was quite an engine in itself.

There was also the SOHC Sprint 6 that hearalded a future for us all. Unappreciated by most at the time because it was only 3.8 liters in a muscle car era, it became the engine for Jaguar XK-E reliability substitutions. Performance of the stock engine was almost identical to the DOHC XK 3.8 in-line six but with GM reliabilty.

I had no idea that all the iron Pontiac V8s were a common family except for bore, deck height, and main bearing journal size.

[tjtjwdad]

I had no idea that all the iron Pontiac V8s were a common family except for bore, deck height, and main bearing journal size.

It sure makes it nice when your looking for engine parts. While cylinder heads interchangeable, there could be some un-intended performance consequences when 455 heads we're put on a 400 due to the increased combustion chamber sizes.

One thing that I've always had to straighten people out was regarding the 455 in the Trans Am. In 1969-70 the 400 was the high performance Pontiac engine, not the 455, unlike Oldsmobile & Buick, which didn't have a "pony car" which is really where the Trans Am & Camaro belong. Anyway, I've heard there was M mandate that no GM car (excluding the Corvette) couldn't have more than 1 HP per 10lbs of car. The Ram Air IV was already pushing the limit as it was advertised @ 370 HP (Ram Air III @ 366) in a GTO and the Trans Am weighed in just a tad over 3700 lbs. In fact, those same engines in a Trans Am was advertised @ 345 & 335 HP respectively. So when GM cut compression ratios in 1971 the Ram Air III & IV goodies went into the 455 HO and stayed within GM's corporate policy, thus ushering in the 455 Trans AM. To unleash the power in the Firebirds a little metal device that prevented full throttle had to be removed (an easy task) and wa-la, some free HP.

I've often wondered why GM had this policy. I guess it was to ensure the Corvette would remain as the most powerful GM automobile and perhaps to appease the auto insurance industry. From what I've read over the years, Pontiac was notorious for sand bagging their HP figures. In any event it I always thought the GTO was hurt in the horsepower wars & performance by this policy. There competition, Olds 442 W-30 and Buick GS 455's were superior performers compared to a GTO. There was a 455 HO in 1970 but it didn't have any of the Ram Air III or Ram Air IV goodies. Instead, had the 1971 455 HO had high compression heads, it would have been a more even match against the Olds & Buick motors of 1970.

There was also the SOHC Sprint 6 that hearalded a future for us all. Unappreciated by most at the time because it was only 3.8 liters in a muscle car era, it became the engine for Jaguar XK-E reliability substitutions. Performance of the stock engine was almost identical to the DOHC XK 3.8 in-line six but with GM reliability.

I forgot to mention; I remember that engine and it was quite unique and un-appreciated at the time. I was surprised Pontiac didn't re-release it later on during the performance dreary 70's. But I guess it was decided that GN was going to start streamlining the engines within the division. A good business decision, but very un-popular with the diehard enthusiast.

Jim

[Cadillac Jim]

... I've heard there was M mandate that no GM car (excluding the Corvette) couldn't have more than 1 HP per 10lbs of car. ...

The Buick Grand National 3.8 liter V6 with twin turbocharger, produced in 1986 I believe, had a better 0-60 time than the Corvette of that year. There was a a lot of turmoil within GM about that, so I heard. Within a year or two Buick gave up all performance cars. I suspect that what you refer to as the M mandate happened about this time.

Of course, we all know that in the post-Duntov years the Corvette languished, becoming a two-seater with Camaro drive train, even to the point of offering low-end small engines with automatic transmission as standard and such trash. The marque was endangered, and cars built during that period have no value to collectors or for resale. Somebody who "got it" within GM put Corvette back on track in the late 1980s.

I've often wondered why GM had this policy. I guess it was to ensure the Corvette would remain as the most powerful GM automobile and perhaps to appease the auto insurance industry. From what I've read over the years, Pontiac was notorious for sand bagging their HP figures. ...

I think that you are right on both counts. GM, like most large companies, consists primarily of business, marketing, and support organizations by manpower head count, and management is business driven, leaving the real car people in real danger of being totally out of the loop. On the Ford side, I remember the 1973 Pinto standard engine with automatic transmission, which had a top speed of 45 mph on level ground at sea level. Even Consumer Reports said that it was so underpowered as to be dangerous on the public streets. I know it's true because I drove one as a rental car on a freeway flat-out WOT for 30 minutes and never got to 50 mph, even downhill. That kind of thing can't happen if a car person has any influence on decision making.

I had a 390 hp 427 CID Corvette, 1966 model year. I once timed it from 40 mph to 60 mph in low gear and computed the peak hp at over 400 delivered to the wheels. With me and a half tank, it weighed 3600 pounds. A lot of the muscle cars of that era lowballed the horsepower ratings.

[JasonA]

There was a "higher output" Grand National. It was called the GNX, and was built in the 1987 model year. It wasn't twin-turboed; rather it had a modifed T-3 turbo for bigger boost and faster spool-up.

The suspension was also heavily-revised. A GREAT handling G-body.

Visit http://www.buickgnx.com for more information on these wonderful machines.