WarrenJ Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 "June 21, 2006 - Last year, I wrote an article that identified Toyota's relentless rise in the United States as being the real source of General Motors' problems." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13447045/site/newsweek/ There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 This was an interesting article: Toyota may order suppliers not to sell to Hyundai (Japanese International Business News): http://www.jinbn.com/2006/06/16211758.html The funny line in the article to me is when a supplier says that previously Toyota had encouraged them to sell to other manufacturers, to get quantities up, except to Nissan. I also was reading through this http://www.jinbn.com/2005/12/21160135.html and similar articles about how Toyota considers competitors, and how they compete. Meanwhile, they are apparently starving for engineers due to recent expansions. One job board post claimed that up to 20% of Toyota's engineers are on loan from suppliers. Starting salaries for engineers in Japan is basically at subsistence level for the cost of living, around $25K per year. Toyota's plant in Texas pays approximately 1/2 what the similar GM Texas plant pays: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06144/692719-185.stm Yet Toyota is one of the most profitable auto manufacturers in the world. In Arlington, GM pays union-scale wages of $26.50 to $30.50 an hour to its 2,800 hourly workers there. On average, GM pays $81.18 an hour in wages and benefits to U.S. hourly workers, including pension and retiree medical costs. At that rate, labor costs per vehicle at Arlington are about $1,800, based on the Harbour Consulting estimate of labor hours per vehicle. In San Antonio, Toyota will use non-union labor and will start its 1,600 hourly workers at $15.50 to $20.33 per hour, which will grow after three years to $21 to $25. Harbour Consulting President Ron Harbour estimates Toyota's total hourly U.S. labor costs, with benefits, at about $35 an hour -- less than half of GM's rates The more I study Toyota, the less likely I am to ever buy a vehicle from them. One article I read, on the other hand, (but don't have a link to, sorry), suggested that Toyota needs Honda, and Honda needs Toyota. The argument was that Honda forces Toyota to not be too conservative, and Toyota forces Honda to not be too crazy. I wonder if you look at the big picture, if competing with Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, and Nissan/Infiniti hasn't been good for the Cadillac brand. Certainly a significant part of the American automotive quality renaissance was fueled by being forced to compete with vehicles with very few defects. As Cadillac had to compete with Packard before WW II, and sometimes with Lincoln, rarely with Chrysler after WW II, Cadillac really seems to get moving best when the going gets tough. Bruce 2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted June 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 One article I read, on the other hand, (but don't have a link to, sorry), suggested that Toyota needs Honda, and Honda needs Toyota. The argument was that Honda forces Toyota to not be too conservative, and Toyota forces Honda to not be too crazy. That's funny! I'm sure I'd enjoy reading that if you ever stumble upon the link. Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=100...amp;refer=japan has that quote, near the bottom. Bruce 2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Friedman is a terrorist Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Friedman is just another example of how the news media is misleading the public... Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Friedman is just another example of how the news media is misleading the public... The same thing IMHO. How about the New York Times releasing the story about CIA access to international banking records! The government asked them NOT to publish, but they considered it "in the public interest" so they published anyway. I think they saw $$$$, not public concern. The enemy plies its trade on many fronts, the most dangerous may be the enemy within.... Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Can you imagine todays media 60 years ago? We could never have pulled off the Normany invasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Would the economy be better off without GM? Probably not--But we sure as hell don't need MSLSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeal1892 Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Its so sad. Whom will be making my Cadillac in ten years ?? Should I find several new ones and garage them until I wear them out one by one ? Michael- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted June 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Should I find several new ones and garage them until I wear them out one by one ? Michael- If I could afford those cars and those garages, I'd simply skip it and buy an XLR. Life is too short. <sigh . . . . > Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Can you imagine todays media 60 years ago? We could never have pulled off the Normany invasion. That is so true - we'd all be speaking German if today's news media was covering WWII. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 That is so true - we'd all be speaking German if today's news media was covering WWII. More likely we would be speaking Japanese, The Germans never came close to invading and occupying American territory... The Japanese actually did. We would have to learn words like Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Lexus... Good thing we all dodged that bullet Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Would the economy be better off without GM? Probably not--But we sure as hell don't need MSLSD. Is that the same as MV15 or ULSD? Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast 600 Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Talking about Toyota, check out the cadillac. With the new SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) standards on HP rating standards Toyota, Honda and Nissan were big losers while GM, Ford and Chrysler numbers rated higher or stayed the same. Most have heard about the new Z06 Vette going from 500 to 505 HP with the new SAE standard, but there are several others that changed as well. All the Japanese motors went down because (they’re shifty bastards we all know) they had “simulated exhausts” and would not fill the crankcase with oil. Some of losers are the Acura MDX, down from 265 to 253, RL down to 290 from 300. Lexus LS 430 278 HP not 290. The biggest cheat of the bunch is Toyota. Camry 3.0liter V-6 now 190 instead of 225, 3.3 liter 210 not 225… The list goes on. The Cadillac XLR-v went from 440 to 469 HP with the new Standards. Now the Japanese auto manufacturers weren’t technically lying to us according to them. They were using methods that still complied with the old rating system (lying cheats!). When a motor is said to put out 225 HP on the Dyno and it’s only doing 190, they’re lying to you. Caught again at unscrupulous business practices! This info can be found in Motor Trend Nov. Issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 That is so true - we'd all be speaking German if today's news media was covering WWII. More likely we would be speaking Japanese, The Germans never came close to invading and occupying American territory... The Japanese actually did. We would have to learn words like Nissan, Honda, Toyota, Lexus... Good thing we all dodged that bullet Germany would have wiped out the Japs if they would have won the war in Europe and had developed nuclear weapons before we did. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=100...amp;refer=japan From that article, total rhetoric: As for American companies, ``they are preoccupied with short-term profit performance,'' Fukui says. ``It's our mission as an automotive manufacturer to protect the global environment.'' What bothers me is that the media and America believes that horsepuckey. Here's Honda's head honcho saying his reason for existing is to protect the global environment. Give me a break. Every business is IN business to make money, plain and simple. Their plan to make money is by building a green image. Fair enough. If the way to make money was by building a vehicle that spit out little turds of radioactive waste, Honda would be doing it. Everyone would. Is Honda's plan to make money different from GM's? Sure. But let's get one thing clear: Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford, Chrysler, are ALL in business to make money for themselves and for their shareholders. Different folks are in it for different reasons because that's their plan to make money. ``We'd like to have the brand image as the world's biggest contributor to the environment,'' Fukui says during an interview on the 10th floor of Honda's Tokyo headquarters, where he works with 19 other executives in one large room. Woah, sound familiar? "We'd like to have the brand image as the world's biggest contributor to the environment." Honda's trucks, which are built on car chassis, already meet the higher U.S. fuel economy standards the U.S. Department of Transportation requires for 2011. More rhetoric. They don't have a real pickup truck. They have three car-based vehicles which they define as "trucks" in their TV commercials for the purposes of pandering to American buyers who think all trucks are created equal. Comparing their "trucks" to our real trucks, in terms of fuel economy as they often do, is like apples to oranges. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 The news media are just a bunch of bottom-feeders... It would be one thing if they reported the news but no - they always have a hidden agenda. A couple of weeks ago, a reporter on CNN was bragging what good fuel economy Toyota's hybrids got. They then stated that GM has a Silverado hybrid pickup but it got very poor fuel economy compared to the Toyota...DUH, they were comparing a sub-compact car to a full-sized truck. CNN also didn't report how Toyota's hybrids get nowhere near the rated fuel economy... The public receives the message: Toyota - good gas mileage, GM - Poor. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Anyone remember this striking article about how Toyota's rapid growth is killing their quality? http://www.jinbn.com/2006/05/30212653.html The Press everywhere prefers bad news to good news. It is interesting to read in the post-war Cadillac documentary, "The Cadillac Story", that GM Media Relations had a terrible relationship with the press over the last 20 years. They acted suspicious and high-handed whenever the press or glossy magazines would contact them apparently. This helped drive the current situation, where GM and the Press often don't mix. It is good to see today's Media staff at GM sponsoring things like the test drive in motion, the main Cadillac website and media website, and working with the glossy mags and press to help support INFORMED articles about Cadillac and GM. The more truth and information that the public can get about what is going on at GM, the better. Bruce 2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 I still have one problem that I have not been able to figure out. Why is there not more people aware of the fact that my "old" 1999 STS gets a good solid 25.5 - 26 mpg on the highway? And that's on regular gas! Of course I mean that the Northstar in general is a phenomenal engine. Why doesn't GM advertise it? I see TV ads telling people that a Subaru or some other foreign car gets 20 mpg, AND THAT"S A SELLING POINT. I just don't get it. Is GM that poor at advertising, or are they afraid that people won't believe them, WHAT? Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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