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RubberCarrot

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RubberCarrot last won the day on August 4

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  • Car Model and Year
    1995 Fleetwood Brougham
  • Engine
    5.7L OHV V8

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  1. When you say "unhinged from its resting place" I am assuming you mean it has disconnected from it's linkages inside the door? If that is the case and the inside door handle is also feeling disconnected I would look at the one common point. The latch itself. Where both the inside and outside handles come together. Try to find a picture on the internet of the latch. I have not found one yet. Locate the arm the door handle linkages connect to. Get some direction from that and I would lower the window and go fishing in there with a wire. See if you can snag that lever on the latch and pop the door open. It won't take a lot of pressure. Then it's just a matter of pulling the panel and see what fell apart or broke.
  2. G400 is the ground. P403 goes to the 3rd brake light. Bad representation of the CCM connectors but good enough for conversation. Just like looking in my trunk...
  3. I did pull the RAP RLY while on the meter and it made no difference. Meter stayed at 135 mA. But my thinking about it covering those other circuits could well be wrong (dangerous assumption). When looking up what circuits are fed by BODY 2 the way it is literally put is: RAP RLY, I/P Fuses: RAP BAT, HVAC MDL, ELC SENS, D/INT LTS, FRT CIG, RRCIG, HVAC BAT, CCM BAT, PWR MIR I/P = Instrument Panel. RAP stands for Retained Accessory Power. Maybe related to RAP BAT? Either way, neither of them changed the meter reading. A quick google gives it's description as "Accessory, Time Delay Cut-Off (RAP Power) Relay". In reality it is a circuit breaker. 2 pins only. If I had a problem with accessory power staying on when the key is off and the door opens, I would be looking at that circuit. I have no problems there. So it looks like I gave you a bad lead. Sorry about that. On to your other questions... I went out and took the CCM's temp 🙂. Cold. Felt it all over. No hot spots, no faintly warm spots. While hanging out in the trunk the other night I did remove the ground. It is on the left side trunk hinge. Drawing attached. It is as clean as the day it was put there. But took it apart and knicked the wire ends with a file. Three wires. One is the CCM, one is the ELC compressor and the I think the 3rd is the trunk pull down which I have disabled because it would randomly refuse to pull down the trunk lid. Disabled it in 2013 by disconnecting the power to the pull down motor. There was no difference from cleaning the ground but I wasn't surprised as the ELC compressor works fine. I did unplug the 2 connectors on the CCM. Actually got the phone in there and took pics of both the connectors and receptacles on the CCM. I'm serious when I say... like new. Pins are shiny, sockets are clean. Was careful taking pics and got them so that you can actually see straight into the connectors and out the holes alongside the wires. I didn't see any issues there. I would upload them here but the file size limitation will give me grief. If you want to see them I should be able to shrink them enough. I have the resolution cranked up for quality so they are 4 Mb files. Lots of shrinkage needed to upload. lol. FYI - I see from your profile you are in NY. I am originally from Rochester so I know what corrosion does to a ground, as well as everything else. I am now in NC (25 years) and how clean the cars are down here still makes me crazy. No more tightening bolts til they snap off to get them out of the way and things like that, that routinely need to be done in the salt belt. I had a 67 Thunderbird some years ago that broke an exhaust system hanger above the rear axle on the drivers side pipe. Slid a 1/2 inch open end on top of the frame member and just unscrewed the bolt holding the hanger to the frame, with my finger tips. It had been there for 30 some years. Crazy! As always, your help is appreciated. Thanks. RC
  4. As I re-read this it becomes obvious that if it isn't the CCM itself, then there has to be some sort of short in the wire(s) running from the BODY 2 fuse to the fuse box and then on to the CCM. Given that it is a relatively small drain (~135 mA) it seems unlikely that it's a wire problem. It would seem to me that would result is something more like a dead short. Or erratic behavior like you would see with a broken or frayed wire. This draw is rock solid at 135 - 140 mA. Or am I being optimistic or jumping to conclusions? All wiring I have looked at so far has been pristine. I have found nothing but a little dust. But I have not traced every inch either. It just doesn't seem likely and I hesitate to possibly introduce more unknowns by getting down and dirty with the wiring. Dangerous assumption?
  5. More detail for you: The car has a power drain of 135 - 140 mA. That first dropped to 0 when I pulled the big 50 A fuse under the hood labeled BODY 2. So then I identified all the circuits serviced by that fuse. They are: RAP BAT, HVAC MDL, ELC SENS, D/INT LTS, FRT CIG, RRCIG, HVAC BAT, CCM BAT, PWR MIR They all test good (no draw, no change on the meter when pulling the fuse) except CCM BAT. As best as I can determine, that is simply the power feed to the computer. There was also a circuit breaker (RAP RLY) that is serviced by BODY 2 and it appears that breaker sits between BODY 2 and all the circuits I list above. Like an insurance policy? I replaced it anyway with no effect other than eliminating the doubt. I did pull all other fuses. None produced any change on the meter except CCM BAT. And when you consider that pulling the CCM BAT fuse results in the draw dropping to 0, there is not a lot of room for other things to get in the mix. Hence my question "Can anybody tell me if they have seen the CCM BAT circuit pull current when the car is off and powered down and it WAS NOT the CCM itself?" I'm not giving up. It isn't in my nature! LOL.
  6. BTW - The CCM, Central Control Module, is often, incorrectly called the BCM. Functionally, they would be the same but BCM, Body Control Module, is incorrect.
  7. The Climate Control Module is used on Sevilles and Devilles but not Fleetwoods. On Fleetwoods the CCM is the Central Control Module (thanks GM) and is located in the trunk on the support behind the rear seat (left of center). On 95s and 96s, the TDM (Theft Deterrent Module) is incorporated into the CCM, Central Control Module. In 95s and prior the TDM was a separate module under the 3rd brake light. The CCM, Central Control Module's job is to control lighting, security and to evaluate the resistance of the key that is in the ignition. If that resistance is what it is expecting it sends a signal to the PCM, Power Control Module, under the hood, saying "all good, start the engine". (Until that signal is received, the injectors are turned off) Those screenshots above are what Cardone requires to be done when you install one of their re-mans. It programs the unit for the resistance of the key in use. What I am trying to figure out is if that re-learn process will work on one taken out of a wrecked car. In other words, does Cardone flash it with the necessary code or is it there on all of them? Darn things are not cheap. Found one 150 miles away that would have cost 160 bucks, shipped, but the next day they told me they no longer had the key (someone bought the entire column). That key was going to give me my "plan B" in case the re-learn process was a fail. (measure resistance, buy a blank that matches, go to ACE and cut the blank to match my key) Those blanks are readily available on EBAY. There are 14 or 15 different varieties, difference being the resistor value. But I am not gonna throw 160 bucks at it to end up with a matching pair of paperweights. I tried negotiating with them for the one with the missing key but they would not play so I said "See ya". I cannot find a definitive answer on the internet to the question "Will the re-learn work on any Central Control Module, used, re-man or new?" Thanks for your input. If you find out more than I can, I owe you a beverage. All those details I have described above are not from some tremendous box of details in my head. It is from reading billions of articles and blogs on the internet. My wife says the car just refuses to be fixed. LOL. I do look forward to hearing back!
  8. OK. One more question. Can a salvage CCM learn a new resistor resistor value from my existing key? Passkey II system. Thanks.
  9. OK Folks... Time to revive this thread for a sequel. Recap: I had found a substantial drain of 1.7 A on the power lock circuit and a bad diode in the alternator causing 8+ ACV showing across the battery and potentially allowing "leakage" back into the car. Replaced the alternator and the AC went away and so did the drain on the power lock circuit. Whew, problem solved. Well not quite... After replacing the alternator it took 6 days for the battery to go dead. I whipped out the old fashioned hydrometer and every cell tested dead, even after a full charge. OK, all that AC voltage smoked the battery. I can believe that considering the guy at the parts store commented that I'm lucky that much AC didn't damage electronics. Off to Advance Auto for a battery I go. They tested the battery and said it was good. I debated that point and they debated the remarkable technology in their testing equipment. Then I told them to put a battery in anyway. Got home and whipped out that hydrometer again. Every cell in the new battery tested alive and well. I was satisfied. Let's see what happens. Since then the battery still dies. It can take a week or it may take 2 weeks but eventually, it is dead. Been hands off for the last few weeks cuz I am tired of it. lol. (I hear ya Rockfangd). Finally over the last week I got back into it. Put the DMM in series on the negative battery terminal and looked at the draw after the a 10 minute wait for the systems to all shut down. It fluctuated between .13 and .14 A. I pulled fuses to see where the culprit was. I pulled the CCM BAT fuse and it fell to 0 - .01A. Replayed a few times to be sure and to allow time for a beer or two to go away. Got my culprit. BTW. Take a look at the numbers I posted at the start of this thread. CCM BAT was the 2nd highest draw at 135 mA. Nice to know some things don't change. I am on the hunt for a CCM now as I believe it either has a short or some component inside has failed and it is activating something, likely in the security system and maybe even those door locks, running the battery down. It is an awful complicated mess as it involves the ignition key with the resistor in it and the CCM being programmed to expect that resistance. So I am in for fun and games when I do find a CCM. I may have found one. I will know tomorrow (8/4/21). The deal hinges on whether they can provide me the key to the car. Thanks to the internet, I have seen pics of the car and the key was in the ignition and bent. So I hope they don't try to fool me. The car was in a wreck and I don't think the driver fared very well unless they were real short. Looks like it drove under a semi and became a near convertible. I can measure the resistance of that key and buy a couple matching blanks and have them cut as a copy of my current key. As far as buying a CCM goes? Not happening. GM quit producing them at least 15 years ago (wouldn't want to pay that anyway). Cardone used to re-man them but they have none. And man, they are near impossible to find in a boneyard. And then you have the key hassle. I talked to Cardone and if I was able to get one from them I would have to put it through a learning procedure after installation. It takes 30 minutes and involves crazy gyrations of turning the key on and off repeatedly etc. But the end result is that in the process the CCM learns the resistance of the ignition key and you don't need to replace the key. I managed to extract a document out of them explaining that process so I got those goods. I could not get out of them if that relearn will work on any CCM or if they flash the ones they re-man with the code to make that possible. I will attach that document here for whoever is unfortunate enough to have the same problem. I also talked to the local Caddy dealer. They had to have a séance to ring up a tech old enough to be familiar. Got a whole bunch of "maybe's" and a possible price tag of 3 to 6 hundred dollars for me to bring them the car, new parts, old parts and permission to spend hours figuring it out. No thanks but I think I got what I was looking for. Listening in between the words I heard him say that some systems need to be flashed, some have a re-learn process and others need to be opened up and cannabilized. Well, I know there are 3 possible systems. I know mine is the "Passkey II" system and I know the Passkey II is the one that uses the relearn procedure. So, I think, if I have to buy a used one with no key I can do the re-learn and teach it my original key's resistance. I think being the key words... Now that I have made you guys read this book my question for you is: Can anybody tell me if they have seen the CCM BAT circuit pull current when the car is off and powered down and it WAS NOT the CCM itself? Side note: All wiring I have looked at is pristine. I have not found a damaged wire yet and have been inside 2 of the doors and all but removed the CCM during the process of looking at grounds and/or signs of wear or damage. Good grief. File size limits prevent me from attaching a 4 page pdf file. I am putting page 1 here and will see if it will let me put the rest in subsequent messages. If not, this will just be a tease. Feel free to email me directly and I will send you the whole 4 page doc! Again, my question for you is: Can anybody tell me if they have seen the CCM BAT circuit pull current when the car is off and powered down and it WAS NOT the CCM itself? Thanks folks! RC
  10. My experience with this sort of thing has not been on a Caddy but the fix to the fan noise problem might just be something simple like debris in the fan cage. Look into replacing the blower motor. In many cases it is not that tough. I did it on my truck (it made a terrible noise and output was next to nothing) and when I pulled the blower motor out (3 screws) it was 75% filled with insulation from within the duct work. Why? How? Don't know, don't care. I cleaned it out and put back and life was good. Took the replacement back to the parts store. Is that your AC problem? I doubt it. But at least it may help with the blower noise.
  11. OK. Alternator is in the car. .04 VAC shows at the battery when idling. Within spec and far less than the 8.2VAC the old alternator showed. I also checked for current on the power lock circuit doing the voltage drop test as before. 0 mV. My fuzzy radio is also cured. I had attributed that to the power antenna, possible a problem with the antenna lead(s). Just never found a reasonably priced antenna or anything else wrong. Been that way since 2015. lol. So. Time will tell but I believe my problem is solved. Still cannot believe it was the alternator all this time. smh. Now I have to let it sit for a week or so and see if it cranks. Thanks All, for your input. RC
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