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the gold2

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the gold2 last won the day on June 21 2014

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  • Car Model and Year
    1992 El Dorado
  • Engine
    4.9L OHV V8

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  1. It goes without saying that BodybyFisher and OldCadTech are the "stuff" of Caddyinfo. This forum relies on expertise ! Quick update: yesterday, after several drivings and about 130 miles, the onboard computer seems to have finally reached its digital equilibrium (automatic idle learn) and the idle is now at about 650/675 RPM (at operating temp in drive at standstill and in park) as per eyeballing the tach. Freeway MPG was 18.9 (120 miles) during the immediate post-ISC replacement with slightly high idle. With the idle settled down now I should be getting better MPG for future freeway driving. Thank you !!
  2. Thanks again, so far so good!

  3. Thanks again, so far so good.!

  4. Thanks again OldCadTech ! So far it is behaving and it seems like it takes several drivings to get the computer and all related parts to get in equilibrium.(and fresh gas) I say this because at operating temps, the idle is around 900 when in drive at a standstill. (1000 rpm in Park) Sometimes it will seek and hover to around 650 momentarily. The latter seems like a more 'standard' goal for some reason. Otherwise it operates well and no codes ! Also thanks again BodybyFisher !!
  5. Possible success with ISC !...maybe ! updated

  6. Hi OldCadTech, guess what ! Possible progress ! BTW the mileage is only like 53K miles Not in the hundred thousands...1992 Eldorado TC 4.9 liter engine. OK, so yesterday I disconnected the battery and let it sit overnight and some...I also pulled 'ON' the headlamp switch for a minute to discharge some capacitor I read about in this forum or other Caddy forum... So, late this afternoon I decided to have at it again with the idle learn. I reconnected the battery. This time I started up the engine momentarily in order to allow me to turn OFF the AC- for certain ! (as we know, the AC goes on automatically after the battery is reconnected). Curiously this time upon first engine on, the idle did not surge way high to 2K and stay at 1500 but gradually went down to about 1100...BUT I shut the engine off quickly. I waited over a minute and began your idle learn procedure using 40 second intervals rather than 20 second minimums. Upon engine 'ON' ,it behaved nicely and shot up to about 2 K RPM for a second and shot down to around 1100 and slowly settled around 1K rpm as the engine idled for 14 minutes in PARK. I shut engine off and waited about 2 minutes and then turned the engine ON again. It behaved similarly and was doing well. I took it for a short spin around the block several times and it was not sailing and the RPM would dunk drop and settle the idle to around 900 RPM after coming to a stop in DRIVE. (I recognized this as normal and good) Later I parked and shut off engine and waited a couple minutes. Turned it on and it behaved well. In Park at operating temperature it idles at 1K steady. In Drive at op temp and at a standstill it is at around 900 RPM. Its been so long since I drove it that this seems about correct with what I recall from this car' idle and RPM behavior.... The pintel remained as before with the jam nut and the length set same as the original factory stetting. I will see what tomorrow brings since I have been down this road before with a full day of good behavior with the old ISC followed by Check engine light etc... I was thinking of using a tiny spot of white laquer paint at the back of the jam nut in order to keep it fixed so it does not vibrate loose. If all goes well for an extended period of time, I may brave installing the original pintel once I get the 'penny tool' and feel confident that the problem is resolved. We shall see what tomorrow brings !! Picture of the original pintel. You can see the cleaner threads that were inside the plunger and the darker 9 external threads making up the standardized (for me) length of the pintel.
  7. Hello OldCadTech, you are correct about the jam nut. I figured as such that if it were needed it would have been part of the original set up. Curiously the internal threading of the plungers seem to be a sort of heli coil. It appears to have a tighter fit deeper into the plunger. The pintel that came with the new unit was too long. A friend who is very good with detail, used a mechanical caliper to precisely measure the original pintel length and dimensions as it appeared on the factory setting on the old unit and cut the longer pintel to size allowing enough thread to enter the plunger exactly as the original had.. That exact length did allow for some rotational tightness inside the plunger (without a jam nut). The gap at the factory setting later turned out to be more than 0.03" with the ISC fully retracted. (We removed the original pintel from the old unit as well using a heat gun on the pintel head. It was on there tight. Maybe with loktite.) I unscrewed the new pintel to reach the 0.03 gap, and it was then kind of loose inside the pintel. Ergo the jam nut. The original pintel was also tried for fit and it screwed in very finger tight just shy of any gap at all during that first ISC full retraction. I would have had to use a tool to tighten it another 3-4 threads and I did not want to commit to that because it is a very tight rotational fit at that point and, at that point, I would have to hold the plunger shaft body with a protected plier while tightening the pintel so as not to put alot of tension on the plunger and internal gears. (my reasoning). The unusual thing is that, subsequently, I could not get the new ISC to retract using the method outlined previously. THAT boggles me. I followed the idle learn procedure methodically and the AC was not on nor did I touch the steering wheel or throttle pedal. I ran it 13 minutes in Park after the final routine and operating temp was reached (190F).
  8. Update ISC problem. Murphy's Law !

  9. update, Murphy's Law !

  10. May 24th 2017 update. Murphy's Law !! Here is the sequence of events. I disconnected the battery and installed the new ISC that had the pintel length set exactly as the original factory setting was. I reconnected battery and ignition on (engine off) entered diagnostics to ECM override ES03 (ISC motor) and then pressed the cooler button on the dashboard hvac control. Climate control went from '50 to '00' as per FSManual 6E-C2-15. The ISC plunger did not retract by itself but after I retracted the throttle lever and pushed gently with my finger, the ISC plunger retracted nicely. I then disconnected the harness. At this point I measured the gap between the pintel and throttle lever to be wider than 0.03". More like approximately 0.90" (mind you this is the exact same pintel length as the factory set old ISC.) The second throttle lever was indeed resting on the Idle-air screw, as per FSM. I set the gap at 0.03" (see pictures) I then buttoned up the air filter assembly etc. and began the Idle Learn procedure as outlined by OldCadTech. What I did not do was set the idle air screw to 525 rpm. Why? Because nobody has touched that screw and not long ago, the old ISC motor came to life and the car operated beautifully. Spot on idle, no codes, no sailing. So as commented earlier, I assumed the idle is set to factory criteria. So after reaching the stage of the Idle learn that the engine is turned on, it started up at around 2K briefly and lowered to about 1100 rpm. I let the car reach operating temperature after 13 minutes (65 deg. F outside). No codes were thrown. The idle did NOT go down to anywhere close to 525 or 900 in Park. I shut engine off. Started it up again and it began idling at around 1300 and soon threw the Check engine dummy light. So, I decided to rest the pintel back to the same length as the factory set old ISC after disconnecting the battery. Reconnect battery and Went through the idle learn routine. No difference. It still idled high at around 1100 and threw the dummy light and same old ISC code (no other codes). I decided to disconnect the battery and try the relearn again. No difference. It still threw the dummy light and ISC code. I then decided to enter diagnostics- ignition on (engine off) and selected ECM override ES03, hit cooler button and tried to retract the ISC as before. It would not budge. I tried this routine from scratch again and could not retract it like the first time. It would not budge. Basically it is between full extension and retraction and the throttle lever sits on the pintel head with engine off. Presumably normal. This begs an academic question. How critical is the gap between pintel and throttle lever? Does the PCM, TPS and ISC figure it out as long as when fully retracted the pintel does not touch the lever? (note the FSM just directs to not allow the pintel to touch the lever at full ISC retraction but does not declare a gap measurement). Secondly, am I correct to assume that the factory set idle air screw should not be tampered with since it worked fine not long ago and has not been tampered with ever? So what do you folks think? I personally am inclined to swap out the PCM with a good spare and see what happens. What is strange is that after installing the new ISC I was able to retract the plunger and I could feel the pulsing of the ISC at my finger tip. Afterward, there was no pulsing and the plunger would not retract under the same ES03 conditions. I also tried entering the diagnosis tree routine FSM 6E-A-69, E007 (and E006) ECM output. This showed a cycling between "Hi and Lo" but I could not see the ISC physically moving nor could I finger the pintel to move during this test. Afterward, lastly, I tried the idle relearn as per factory manual and still no luck. So I am back to the silly drawing board. Help? opinions? PS the retaining nut at the base of the new pintel just keeps the pintel snug and does not interfere with the retraction stage. Thank you !
  11. Alright guys, thanks. I won't be able to begin work until maybe Sunday or next week. I will update. P.S. I agree that auto correct is a real pain. I have it on my tablet and it causes some weird shenanigans!
  12. Interesting coincidences ! I am a small time operator. Nut'in fancy. I do grunt work, paper work, legal work, rental work, work-work,fix it work etc... I got the new ISC this afternoon. Looks like I might have to fit in the 'pintel' from one of the other ISC only because the new pintel is very long... The new ISC's plunger reaches to the top of the old ISC's pintel threading as seen in the picture. Otherwise the dimensions of the new ISC are exact. It even came with an unexpected correct mounting plate, different from the sales picture. The old ISC is pictured with the mounting plate attached.
  13. Thanks BodybyFisher, I bookmarked sonnax. That facebook forum is really wild. Basically when I pose questions on forums, I like to explain my process and follow up because it contributes to the archives. Often times folks can just research and find some good info bits inside threads that prove positive in correcting their issue. That in turn reduces the number of repetitive threads. I normally do research first in order to find solutions and/or get a frame of reference (education) before asking questions. Otherwise help from experts may fall on infertile ground ! Once again thank you for your valuable contributions to Caddyinfo !
  14. BodybyFisher, you are very humble and I truly appreciate your valuable help ! You have been extremely helpful and there is no need to apologize. Short of being present and physically doing this repair, you have contributed expertly, patiently and professionally to this equally humble recipient of CaddyInfo help. Yes, I am equally grateful to OldCadTech ! My fingers and toes are crossed !!! I will update much later..
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