OynxSTS Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 OK this is really odd... But my Transmission has developed a leak in the last month... She only does it when she is cold and only while in reverse with the wheels turned "hard" to the "Left" At first I thought that the steering rack was leaking... But I managed to "collect" some of the drippings and they are Tranny Red/Orange. In drive she is fine and in reverse turning "Right" she is fine too... Really weird eh? Anyone else experience/fix this? Worst case a pint of tranny fluid every 6 months is cheap and easy... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Transaxle seals where the CV joints enter? If it is, that won't be a bad job to do Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Thanks Body! You might be right... As far as I can tell on that side of the Tranny case there are six or seven leak points 1) Side Cover 2) 4th Gear Servo Cover 3) Left Axle Seal 4) Line Pressure Plug 5) Cooler exit line 6) Manual Shaft seal 7) Filler neck Now if I could just figure out which is pressurized in reverse and which would self seal as the car warmed up I would know where to begin... The fact that he wheels needs to be turned left implies that something is rubbing too... Over the long weekend I'll see if the coolant line is OK... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I am not thinking pressurization in reverse, I am thinking that you CV joint torques and the seal can't compensate. There is a spring in those seals that keeps it tight around the shaft. You don't want your seal LOOSE around the shaft ... Anyway, its possible that a seal spring is tired or the seal is worn. That is my guess. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epricedright Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I am not thinking pressurization in reverse, I am thinking that you CV joint torques and the seal can't compensate. There is a spring in those seals that keeps it tight around the shaft. You don't want your seal LOOSE around the shaft ... Anyway, its possible that a seal spring is tired or the seal is worn. That is my guess. Yeah I hear "seals" will do that, get loose and worn out with age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted April 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 As far as I can tell on that side of the Tranny case there are six or seven leak points 1) Side Cover 2) 4th Gear Servo Cover 3) Left Axle Seal 4) Line Pressure Plug 5) Cooler exit line 6) Manual Shaft seal 7) Filler neck So far I have eliminated 1,4,5,6 & 7 Unfortunately #3 looks OK... I'll be crawling under her this weekend to verify... If it is one of the seals on the 4th servo (which are held in by 3 10mm bolts) it looks even easier to replace then the axle shaft .. which require disassembly of some of the front suspension. (ball joints and tie rods, etc)... BUT... the manual ONLY talks about servo replacement under "unit repair" which is GM manual speak for "Step one... place transmission on work bench" Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted April 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Its not leaking from #2 (servo cover)... to bad too... if it were, this would be an easy fix... the servo and the three bolts that hold it in are easily accessible... Solved the turn left leak mystery too... The steering rack bellows are a perfect "catch" for the tranny fluid and when the wheels are turned left... they bunch up and "wring" out the tranny oil on them... Still not sure it is the axle seal... it looks dry and most of the leak seams to be be somewhat father back on the transmission... Hmm... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 This may sound stupid, but are you sure it is transmission leak? Some people use ATF as a powersteering fluid. If it is the case your powersteering system could leak, not the tranny. Just follow the powersteering oil lines from the pump to the rack. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted April 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Thanks for the suggestion... Steering fluid was my first thought... Given the drips while turning... But it is definitely the tranny... My PS fluid is clear and the leaks look, smells and tastes like tranny fluid (kidding on that third sense) Anyway it is wet above the steering rack... And the tranny is loosing about a cup of fluid a month. I cleaned the whole side case and the drive shaft... as best I could... Boy, these cars are "tightly packed". The leak is so slow that there are no drips under the car... The only evidence is the teaspoon worth of drips I get backing the car out of the drive each morning... Its looks a lot like a dog marking his territory Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Do the ATF cooling pipes and hoses look good and tight? The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted April 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 The coolant "exit" line is light and clean... I haven't checked the "input" line yet... I might try "snugging" up the case bolts a little... I'd do this if I could see them all... Boy its tight in there... On my '90 Allante I had leak in almost the exact same spot... careful "snugging" solved that leak... On that car you could see all of the side case bolts with the wheel off... On this car... not so... This is risky if you can only see 1/2 of the bolts... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenJ Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 BUT... the manual ONLY talks about servo replacement under "unit repair" which is GM manual speak for "Step one... place transmission on work bench" Yes, indirect-speak can be interesting. I've recently come to understand that "take a deep breath and hold it" is hospital speak for, "we're gonna hurt you real bad!" Regards, Warren There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. - Ludwig von Mises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted April 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2006 I've recently come to understand that "take a deep breath and hold it" is hospital speak for, "we're gonna hurt you real bad!" Never heard that one... but "There's going to be some discomfort" means the same thing... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted July 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Transaxle seals where the CV joints enter? If it is, that won't be a bad job to do Yes it was leaking at the trans-axle seal... But I'm not sure I would agree that is wasn't that bad of a job to do Some times bad is bad! AS you can see in the attachment you are digging really deep into the suspension of this car... To do this you get to remove (in order) 1) the Axle nut 2) the CVRSS sensor dog bone 3) the Tie rod end 4) the stabilizer link 5) the lower control arm ball joint 6) The axle from the hub 7) The axle from the tranny 8) The $9 bearing To reinstall reverse the above... and use a new $7 axle nut One more thing the universal bearing/seal installer the "fleet guy" at work lent me didn't work... The transmission output shaft "protrudes" beyond the case... The bearing installer needs to be "hollow"... Desperate... I found that an old empty Freon Can was exactly the right size and shape... It gave its life to install the seal. I have more pictures of this project that I could post... Plus one of my son and I triumphantly holding the half shaft over our heads. But I seem to be at my limit... Oh ya... So far... No leak. Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Good Job Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sschnelle Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 I purchased a 2004 Deville with 68K miles that was doing basically the same thing as OnyxSTS's vehicle. I replaced the axle seal, but have found that when it is cold, and I really crank it, I still get a few drips (The old seal left oil puddles and stripes, and dropped the trans level, so its better with the new one). When its warm, not a drop! The CV Hub seems to have a lot of play, compared to the right side. My questions are: Has anyone else experienced this? Is this typical? Does the bearing in the trans need to be replaced, to totally stop it? Is it going to grenade if I let it go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted October 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 My seal solved my problem for about 2 months and then it started again...and got worse... I took the car in to a trusted transmission shop fearing that I had split the case... I discovered that I had smashed/split/fubared/etc the "Driven gear bearing assembly" This bearing has two functions: 1) it controls the big chain that runs from the torque converted to the transmission proper and 2) it provides a bearing surface and support for the output shaft of that side of the transaxle... You can easily test if this is your problem... with the car on axle jacks grab the half shaft as close to the transaxle as you can and see how much "up and down" play it has... there shouldn't be any... any play over 1/8" and like me, you smashed this bearing... If you catch it quick, you can save the transmission and most of the "hard" parts... I drove mine like this for almost 9 months and by the time I took it in the bearing was almost completely "eaten through" and output shaft was all scored and the pan was fill of "shrapnel". If this assembly completely splits the transmission will fail and you will be stranded somewhere. Of course I have no-one to blame for this as I tend(ed) to drive the snot out of the poor car... One too many sophomoric burnouts, neutral drops, forced hard shifts, etc... Since getting the bill for this I have toned things down considerably and my wife has been commenting that she likes driving with me a lot more now... but my kids still yell "come on dad giv'er all 300" When the transmission shop owner gave me back my keys he did share with me that the 4T80E is one of the strongest FWD transmissions ever made and he wished me good luck at the Indy 500... The bad news is to fix this you need to re&re the transmission which is not really a DIY job as the transaxle weighs almost 300 lb and you need a special fixture to hold up the engine while you drop the tranny out the bottom of the car.... Most shops and dealerships will quote you 9 hours of labor to re&re the tranny, plus the hard parts, plus fluid, etc. Any bill less than $2000 for this problem is a good deal... Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Glad to hear you got it fixed. I will check my '97 STS tonight when I replace the 4th gear servo cover seal. The support fixture for the engine can be fabricated out of 2" tubing without much trouble. It bolts across the strut towers and has a third "leg" that fastens to the upper radiator crossmember. There are one or two adjustable chains that hook to the lift rings on the engine so it's supported when the trans is unbolted. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Fascinating! Interesting info Greg, I think this guy has the same problem, why dont you chime in and speak to him when you get a chance, he even said he feels looseness grabbing the CV joint, its possible he is experiencing what you described.. Thanks, Mike http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11213 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OynxSTS Posted October 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Done, You know it is interesting... when this happened to me I thought I was the only one... since then I have now come across three other people who have had this problem... My tranny guy has seen a few 4T80E with "split" cases... according to him they split and leak at the front... My bearing "failure" was the first one he has seen in a 4T80... Though he said this sort of thing does happen in some of the weak "Sunfire" three speeds... Because I had figured that I had just goofed up the seal... I figured I would just keep topping her up and drive it... The vibrations started to freak me out and then she started to loose about a pint a week... Unfortunately for me by that time, I had done so much damage to the guts of the tranny I had two options... GM re-manufactured or Used... If you can resolved this problem QUICKLY you can save yourself at least $1500. Easin' down the highway in a new Cadillac, I had a fine fox in front, I had three more in the back ZZTOP, I'm Bad I'm Nationwide Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.