Regis Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Some of you may remember that I replaced the endlinks and stabilizer bar bushings a few weeks ago. That solved the banging over bumps as well as some other minor issues. Everything was quiet for a day and then the persistent and elusive creaking/groaning sound while initiating left turns returned. So back to the garage. This time I let Ken take the wheel, so to speak, from the get go to see what he can come up with. Good thing. Within 3 minutes he reports that my strut bearing is sticking. We walk over, at this point the wheels are hanging, and while he grabs the left wheel at 9 and 3 o'clock and turns it side to side he points out that the spring is stuttering (it should be smooth). Sure enough I see that it is. He informs me that the spring, with the weight of the car, loads up everytime I turn the steering wheel. That explains the on and off sensation that the two front tires wanting to go in seperate directions. I would also hear a thump sound when hitting a bump on turns. He explained that that was the spring unloading because the bump would take the pressure off the strut assembly(spring). It all made sense to me but the proof is in the pudding. So I scheduled an appointment for today, which gave me time to pick up the bearing at Napa ($25). He pulled the entire strut assembly out, compressed the spring, installed the new bearing, checked my strut, and reinstalled the assembly. Wow what a difference! Everything and I mean everything is smooth and quiet. I'm going to give it a day or two and report back just to make sure there aren't any noises suddenly reappearing. By the way, I was playing around with the old bearing and it was really shot. Funny because I had the upper strut mounts replaced about 3 years ago and the bearings included. So you never know. Hope some will find this information useful. First some lunch then back out for a quiet drive. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Nice job.. this is good information! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Well I was going to wait until at least tomorrow to post an update but allowing more time to elapse just wasn't necessary. Some of the sound has returned while initiating left turns. It doesn't make as much noise as before but it's still there. The bearing replacement did make a noticeable difference. I want to get that on record. I called up Ken to pick his brain and he seems to think it might be the steering rack (rack and pinion). He caught me off guard with his next comment about not thinking it was the intermediate steering shaft because he believed that it was not an issue with my make and model year. I never even asked about that. I have an appointment tomorrow morning so he can have a listen and looksy. For those that are curious.... one of the sounds it makes while in park, with engine on, and while turning the steering wheel to the left is a clicking or racheting sound. Before the bearing fix it would groan and creak loudly while doing this. I'll post an update after tomorrows garage visit. Cheers! "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevyorange Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 kgr, I have a 94 with a rattling problem during right hand turns only. It doesn't do it while at a stop like yours, only moving and only when over 5 or 7MPH. It is farily loud and I am having some suspension parts replaced while my engine is rebuilt. I'll report back on what I did and whether it solved the problem. The sound is remeniscent of a bad CV-joint but I had those replaced 8 months ago and it didn't fix anything. I wasn't too disappointed as the car was nearing 100k miles. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Thanks for sharing your experience Adam. I look forward to your report after everything is done. And please do post back when it's all done. Here's todays update. Ken thinks it's play in the strut bar. Scotty, you remember when I changed the strut bar bushings not too long ago? Well it seems that the other end of the strut bar (the end that goes into the control arm) has a little play in it (it's the original). It only moves when there is enough pressure (like the weight of a car) applied. Ken used some penetrating spray and after about 5 minutes it was quiet. No more racheting. So next Monday Ken is going to drill out the rivets holding the strut bar to the control arm and replace them with hardened nut and bolt arrangements to firm it up again. That should get rid of the play. I'll update when it's done. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Cool, those rivets never break loose, maybe this is the reason the strut mount bearing went bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 He indicated that since the control arm is the original with 220,000 miles on it that the pulling and tugging over the years probably created some play. He also pointed out that there were rust flakes around the area where the strut bar meets the control arm indicating that something is moving. I noticed that before but never thought anything of it. Not sure if the movement had anything to do with the bearing going bad. I had this noise issue before the upper strut mounts (with bearings) were done 2-3 years ago. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 kgr, I have a 94 with a rattling problem during right hand turns only. It doesn't do it while at a stop like yours, only moving and only when over 5 or 7MPH. It is farily loud and I am having some suspension parts replaced while my engine is rebuilt. I'll report back on what I did and whether it solved the problem. The sound is remeniscent of a bad CV-joint but I had those replaced 8 months ago and it didn't fix anything. I wasn't too disappointed as the car was nearing 100k miles. Adam You know something Adam, after rereading your post a few times I remembered that mine started out making noise only while moving but eventually it progressed to making noise while at a stop or in park and turning the steering wheel. It's been so long and I almost forgot that detail. Something to think about. Perhaps we'll end up helping eachother out. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevyorange Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 I should be getting my car back tomorrow. I'm not counting on them fixing the rattling sound as it was secondary to the engine R&R, however, I believe the parts of the suspension they are fixing had to do with some stripped stuff in the center link... Will be in touch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 I'm anxious to hear how everything comes out. I'm especially interested in the second day report. The reason is that everytime my car goes up on the lift for whatever, it's always quiet for a day or two then the sounds come back. Ken the mech was joking the last visit that he could set up a frequent flyer plan for me where every 2 days he would lift the car. He's got a good sense of humor. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Ok here's the latest update. Ken drilled out the 3 rivets holding the back of the strut bar to the control arm and inserted hardened nuts and bolts as replacements. In the first pic you'll notice the control arm minus the strut bar. He then removed the strut bar from where it connects towards the front of the car. He removed the bushings and washers that had recently (3-4 months ago) been replaced with new ones so he could inspect the bar more thoroughly. Notice in the second picture how much of the metal bar had been worn away. It's supposed to all be the same thickness. Ken's conclusion: The strut bar was moving at both ends. The racheting sound was caused by the movement in the strut bar where it is fastened to the control arm. The dull clunk/thudding sound was/is caused by the movement in the front portion of the strut bar. Because the metal is worn it is moving and banging around inside the new bushings. Once again Ken pointed out the rust dust and flakes at both ends indicating that there is movement. He also pointed out that there is rust on the front portion of the passenger side strut bar. Both strut bars need to be replaced in order to eliminate the clunk/thudding sound. The racheting sound is gone. I'll update again in a day or two to make sure it's really gone. However, when the work was finished I took the caddy out for an unusually hard romp and stomp just to progress any problems. Seems fine so far. This is what i need your help with. Can I buy just the strut bars without the control arm? I would settle for used or ones out of a junk yard as long as the strut bar isn't worn down. I'll even take the whole control arm assembly if it's easier. Hopefully someone can help me out with this. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 The worn front end of the strut bar. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevyorange Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 My car isn't back yet... maybe today, maybe tomorrow. The work that is being done on your car, and what has/hasn't worked - I'm not sure whether I believe mine is going to be cured of this problem. Thanks for keeping updated posts on here for us, I thought I was the only owner with the rattling sound. It is a very different sound than I've ever heard on a car before, a literal rattle, not even clicking. Clicking to me is what CV Joints wearing out sound like.. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 As of tonight the racheting sound on left steering wheel turns is still gone. I made a lot of short trips during today and tonight we went around town looking for furniture. Pulling in and out of tight parking spots.... all was quiet. Now the clunk/thudding is still present but that's to be expected until I can get ahold of some new/used strut bars. Adam, you say you have a rattling sound? Are you sure it's not your catalytic converter or the heat shield surrounding the exhaust where it connects to the exhaust manifold? That particular heat shield was rattling on me a couple of years ago and a large hose clamp around it took care of it. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Here's the second day report. No more ratcheting sound....hip hip hurray! So now it's on to solving the clunk/thudding sound. Scotty is helping me out in locating strut rods or the entire control arms. <Phone is ringing> Ok I just got off the phone with Scotty's contact and both control arms are being sent. They are off of a 96 Deville. Both arms including shipping came to $85-90. Scotty you are da man! I'll update when they arrive. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 It's a good think you didn't know my lower control arms would fit your car.... I would have awoke one morning to find my car on jack stands! I guess you are going to check the ball joints for tightness and replace as necessary... By the way, I had a look at the photo above, that is the same control arm I have, FYI... Now that I know that I have the same control arm as an STS, I am going to start taking corners harder with my Deville! Glad to be of assistance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 It's a good think you didn't know my lower control arms would fit your car.... I would have awoke one morning to find my car on jack stands! I was thinking cinder blocks myself. My ball joints seem to be fine but having an extra set around can't hurt. A side note to the clunk/thudding sound. It's very hard to accurately convey sounds in written words and I thought I should add this tidbit that may help. The sound is very similiar to the sound a worn ball joint makes. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 It's a good think you didn't know my lower control arms would fit your car.... I would have awoke one morning to find my car on jack stands! I was thinking cinder blocks myself. My ball joints seem to be fine but having an extra set around can't hurt. A side note to the clunk/thudding sound. It's very hard to accurately convey sounds in written words and I thought I should add this tidbit that may help. The sound is very similiar to the sound a worn ball joint makes. Yes but the new control arms will come with ball joints riveted to them, you will need to inspect the ball joints on the new control arms you are getting...and decide if you want to keep them in place. New MOOG ball joints are about $75 each... you are complaining about a clunking maybe the ball joints from the 96 will be better..? UNLESS, you plan on drilling out 12 rivets and installing YOUR ball joints in the control arms you are getting....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted October 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 New MOOG ball joints are about $75 each... you are complaining about a clunking maybe the ball joints from the 96 will be better..? UNLESS, you plan on drilling out 12 rivets and installing YOUR ball joints in the control arms you are getting....? The ball joints are fine and the noise appears to be coming from the front end of both strut bars (rods). Both rods exhibit movement. I mentioned the noise sounding like a worn ball joint because that's the closest sound I could reference. However, I should point out that it doesn't have the exact and distinct sound of a worn ball joint. Not to say that it couldn't be a contributing factor though. The last time i experienced worn ball joints I could hear it as well as feel it. And in this situation I can only hear it. Plus this sound has been around for about 3 years. When the control arms arrive I'll have to inspect them and then have Ken look at them and see what he thinks. If the newer ball joints are in good shape then I don't see why I wouldn't swap out the whole setup. It would sure save Ken a lot of drilling and cutting. And just because I'm, suddenly, looking at your Deville's front end like a kid in candy store Scotty.......I wouldn't worry mahahahaaa. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 I better hide my Boston front struts that are sitting in the garage then .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted November 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Ok, first things first. I'd like to thank Scotty for putting me in contact with his Cadillac parts supplier. And also for going the extra distance and checking up on the status of the control arms himself. It was a pleasure doing business all around. Scotty, you sure made it easy. Mucho thanks. Two sets of control arms arrived today. One set off of a 95 Deville and the other off of a 96. As far as I can tell they look just like the ones on my 94sts. Tomorrow morning I'll be calling Ken to see when and what he wants to do. I'll keep you posted. On a side note, I'll be looking at another 94sts shortly that seems to have a number of problems. The asking price is $1500 or $1000 cash. I'll definitely be checking it out. I'll let you know. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I am glad you got them, hope they fix your problem, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnikelshpu Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Firstly, Thank you very much for sharing your story. I had a (slight) rattling sound on drivr's side since I baught my 96 DeVille at an auction about 3 years ago. Sounded like something, perhaps muffler, was loose. For THREE years I 'd been trying to find the cause, and I would not believe mechanics' telling me its the struts (+/- $1700) -- The bounce test was ok, and the car did not bounce on hard stops either, etc. Well, recently the rattling sound had gotten worse (lounder and more rattling), and was quite unsettling (the ride was a bit wobbly too)... Two days ago I came to my mechanic (who thought I had a strut problem) and TOLD him to replace the stabilizer bar bushings and stabilizer links. To make a short story long, he could only get the links which he'd replaced, and I went off to a Caddy dealer to pick up a pair of bushings (I will not go into grief I got from dealing with Caddy dealers, but I did get the correct bushings, eventually). Interestingly, after the links were replaced I could have sworn that the car handled better, and there was less rattling, but the main sound was still there. Once my mechanic replaced the bushings, the sound was gone. Moral -- perhaps try the bushings first, and if the sound is still there, do the links. There is more to this story, but it has to do with subsequent alignment, and I think I'll prolly start a new post for that. Once again, Thanks!! --D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyman_2 Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 .....the persistent and elusive creaking/groaning sound while initiating left turns returned. He informs me that the spring, with the weight of the car, loads up everytime I turn the steering wheel. That explains the on and off sensation that the two front tires wanting to go in seperate directions. I would also hear a thump sound when hitting a bump on turns. He explained that that was the spring unloading because the bump would take the pressure off the strut assembly(spring). It all made sense to me but the proof is in the pudding. This sounds exactly like my problem. Groaning while turning, thump when hitting a bump on turns. And, I can tell without a doubt that my car just rides funny now. I bet this is my problem too. I'll have to check this out. Thanks for this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Firstly, Thank you very much for sharing your story. I had a (slight) rattling sound on drivr's side since I baught my 96 DeVille at an auction about 3 years ago. Sounded like something, perhaps muffler, was loose. For THREE years I 'd been trying to find the cause, and I would not believe mechanics' telling me its the struts (+/- $1700) -- The bounce test was ok, and the car did not bounce on hard stops either, etc. Well, recently the rattling sound had gotten worse (lounder and more rattling), and was quite unsettling (the ride was a bit wobbly too)... Two days ago I came to my mechanic (who thought I had a strut problem) and TOLD him to replace the stabilizer bar bushings and stabilizer links. To make a short story long, he could only get the links which he'd replaced, and I went off to a Caddy dealer to pick up a pair of bushings (I will not go into grief I got from dealing with Caddy dealers, but I did get the correct bushings, eventually). Interestingly, after the links were replaced I could have sworn that the car handled better, and there was less rattling, but the main sound was still there. Once my mechanic replaced the bushings, the sound was gone. Moral -- perhaps try the bushings first, and if the sound is still there, do the links. There is more to this story, but it has to do with subsequent alignment, and I think I'll prolly start a new post for that. Once again, Thanks!! --D Thanks for posting. Hearing your story makes it worthwhile for me and all the other members on here to take the time to accurately post problems and fixes knowing that it might help others. Sounds like you were able to have your car fixed right once you were armed with the correct information...... that's terrific. Here's the update on my car to date. I'll keep it brief. I have an appointment this Monday (14th)at 8:15am and I'm loaded with 2 sets of control arms. I'll post the results when it's done. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.