sal.carceller@cox.net Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 I have a 93 Seville that has factory Chrome rims and they leak air bad! The reason they leak is because the chrome process not only chomed the front of the rim (The side you see from the road) but they also decided it would be a great idea to chome all the way around into the rim. The trouble with this is that now when you mount the tire the tire bead is mounted on top of the chrome and after 10+ years the chrome is now seperating from the rim. So even though the bead is on the chrome and the chrome is attached to the rim the air leaks out between the chrome and the rim! I have had these tires unmounted and then the tire shop wire-brushed the bead mount portion of the rim but within a few months the problem just returned since wire-brushing only removes the lose chrome and within a few months more chrome comes lose. So, now I am going to have the tires unmounted and then bring the rims home. My plan is to take a DA Sander with say 120grit and sand the hell out of the bead seat on the rim till all the chrome is gone then have them re mount the tire with some sealant. By the way, if you are wondering how I'm sure they are leaking from the bead? I have placed the tires flat on the ground so that the good face of the rim points to the sky and then I dropped plenty of water all the way around the bead and you can see lots of bubbles indicating the air escaping from the bead seal. It does not escape all the way around, just at certain points where the chrome has come lose. The rims overall are in good shape and do not need re-chroming. The surface of the rims is great and I have no chrome pealing or missing on the surface. For some reason the chrome has only flaked off where the bead meets the rim. What bozzo engineer decided it was good idea to chrome the bead mount as well? Any other suggestions on this? I'm sure I'm not the first with this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 BOZZO Engineer? Chrome wheels have been around for years, I had them when I was a KID. Find a tire changing shop that will use the proper mounting technique where they coat the bead with a sticky substance to minimize leaking. Don't screw with the wheels just find someone to mount them correctly. If that does not work its time to buy new rims if the chrome is separating and the substance won't stop it...they are 13 years old Man after over 4,000 posts, I have to stop coming to this site, it just gets me pissed off lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal.carceller@cox.net Posted August 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 I have other chrome rims and have had several sets over the years I have never seen a chrome rim that had the bead area chromed it's just a bad idea. For example I have had several versions of Porsche and Mercedes factrory chromed rims and none of them have had the bead chromed. I was only half joking about the engineer comment did not mean to offend anyone, my point of comparison was because of my experience other factory chromed wheels. Other than this bead issue I really love the Caddy rims they look good even after 10+ years. I have had a good tire shop try the clean then remount with sealant and that only worked for a short time (about 4 months) before they started to leak again. I agree that these are 10+ years old but they really are in great shape other than the bead area, so before I just throw them away I'm willing to try removing the chrome from the bead area. I'm sure I'm not the first with this problem so if I can come up with a solution to fix it I think others may be intrested. I'm still intrested in finding out if this is a common problem. Will keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmpafford Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 I agree with Scotty. The wheel manufacturer did not just chrome the face, they most likely chromed the WHOLE rim. Every surface is electroplated with the chrome. They polish the steel rim to look like chrome and then electroplate the rim. The chrome only protects where they polished. Think of it as a metal "clear coat" If it was dull before chroming, it will be dull after chroming. If it was polished before chroming, it will stay polished after chroming. The chrome just keeps the steel from oxidizing. Chrome does not take dull metal and make it shine. If the chrome is coming off the back side of the bead seat, it is most likely due to the tire changing tools flexing the outer edge of the rim. Every time they change the tire it is causing tiny cracks in the chrome plating. Wire brushing and sanding will only cause the now exposed steel to rust. I would check into having the rims rechromed or getting new rims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimD Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 .... I have had a good tire shop try the clean then remount with sealant and that only worked for a short time (about 4 months) before they started to leak again. .... I'm sure I'm not the first with this problem so if I can come up with a solution to fix it I think others may be intrested. I'm still intrested in finding out if this is a common problem. Will keep you posted. Don't know how common this is, but I have one wheel on my '98 that loses one pound per week, every week, like clockwork. And likewise, this wheel has been inspected - cleaned at a reputable tire shop and the tire mounted with sealant at the bead. Only a slight improvement as it had been losing two pounds per week. Are the '93 wheels chrome over aluminum? Mine are. Jim Drive your car. Use your cell phone. CHOOSE ONE ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal.carceller@cox.net Posted August 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 That is correct! My 93 are Chrome over Alum. Take the rim off the car place it flat on the ground (Good face to the Sky) mix water with a little soap poor it onto the bead area and see if you see air leaking producing the bubbles. If so your bead is leaking. The Tire sealer used when mounting the tire appears to help a little but the real problem is that the sealant only sits between the chrome and the rubber and the leak is happening between the Chrome and the Alum. This issue bothered me for about 6 years now and no one could figure this out. It wasn't till I actually did the leak check then I marked the tire rubber at the point of all leaks also making a refrence mark on the tire and rim so that I knew excactly where the tire was positioned on the rim. Then once unmounted I started to inspect the areas I marked as the leak areas. Inspect the rubber bead on the tire as well as the rim. What I found was that the chrome pealed right off the rim and was now stuck on the rubber bead on the tire. I really think this problem is very common but most folks don't know the cause so they just keep putting air in the tires without question. For me it really bothered me that I had to add air every 2 weeks! Any others with this add air issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadiKing Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 sal.carceller@cox.net, I have had the same issue with my Chrysler 300m. The wheels oxidize very badly along the rim, where there is no chrome. I had a 1994 Licoln Town Car. Rims were powder coated, not chromed. Never had a leak, always looked good, 241,000 miles. I noticed what really causes the leakage, at least in my case, is hard acceleration at the start. If I back off the gas peddle, the tires don't start leaking right after I have them cemented to the rim! Good Luck because there is no magic solution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Lets not mis-interpret what is going on here! This is what was said! "The trouble with this is that now when you mount the tire the tire bead is mounted on top of the chrome and after 10+ years the chrome is now seperating from the rim. So even though the bead is on the chrome and the chrome is attached to the rim the air leaks out between the chrome and the rim!" He has a DAMAGED rim, period, end of story, re-chrome or replace rim... OK so chromed rims tend to leak more thats a GIVEN, and Mercedes, Porsche and Ford have a better idea, but this is NOT this persons problem, peeling chrome is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal.carceller@cox.net Posted August 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Scotty, Please do not takes this in any disrespectful way. I guess I'm just really old school (but I'm not really that old '40') I agree with you that I have a comprimised Rims but let me tell you a little about myself and what I do as another Hobby. You see I have restore 5 older model Porsches mostly 356 series these are all pre 1965 so all of them had been built before I was even Born. I currently own a 1964 356SC as well as a 1973 911S and in restoring cars this old we that do this type of work can't just say throw it away and buy a new one. So that's why it's in my nature to try and fix these rims. I hope this background about me helps you understand why I think as I do. So, if my rims look great and the only failing part is the chrome on the bead I would like to try and get say 5 more years out of them. But the bigger question is have these rims been failing pre-maturly and most folks don't know it? as I said I have been dealing with air loss for 6 years - ever since I bought the car used. So who knows how long the prior owner was dealing with this. Do others have chrome rims leaking that are much newer? Thanks for all your help you are a great contributor to this board and have help me other times before. Many times just by reading posts I find my answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 What bozzo engineer decided it was good idea to chrome the bead mount as well? Any other suggestions on this? I'm sure I'm not the first with this problem. Bozo engineer? Maybe you can describe how a wheel can be electro-plated on just the front portion of the wheel... A LOT of tire monkies like to use the old style of tire mounting machine (the one for steel wheels with hubcaps) on the expensive chromed alumium rims. The big pry-bar grinds along the surface of the bead and damages the wheel. Whenever I buy tires, I always make SURE they use the machine that does not contact the bead. Even if the wheel was not chromed - just a regular aluminum wheel, it has a clear coat to protect the wheel and that would chip if the wrong tire mounting machine was used... Forget about sanding the wheel - that will only cause the chrome to peel on the face of the wheel - take the wheel to a shop that specializes in refinishing aluminum wheels and it will come back looking new. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal.carceller@cox.net Posted August 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Ok, I appoligize for the engineer comment it was not my best judgment to say that and added no value to my problem or this thread. With that said, I am not a chrome expert but if things are as you say then why isn't the entire rim chrome? my chrome only extends into the tire bead by a little bit. For example the back side of the rim is not electroplated at all. All I was trying to say was that many other factrory rims Porsche and Mercedes for one do not have chrome on the bead. You may be right that they chrome them but then they must go through the task of removing the chrome from the bead. Why would they do that? You now have me wondering? I have a good friend in FL that does electro plating for me for my work with older Porsche models. I will chat to get his oppinion on this issue. I still question why I must re-chrome a wheel that's in great shape other than the bead area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Not at all, I am 52.. All I will say is this, the thread got off track. You are loosing excessive amounts of air because of the chrome separating. The thread started going toward tires leaking more because of them being chromed as compared to those that were not chromed in the bead, which while that may be true is NOT the problem you are having. I was bringing it back on track. I recently (8/13/2005) said myself that my tires continually drop air, and I have chrome wheels. http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...c=6954&hl=tires What happens with me is I take the BOZZO, Failing prematurely, Porsche and Mercedes statements too personal. There are others like the post today 01Deville EATS TIRES, like the DEVILLE has a defect. Its one reason why I need to get away from this site...its run its course for me, I approach things from a positive standpoint, not a negative standpoint, and BOZZO just sets me off, I need to get away, its not you its me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal.carceller@cox.net Posted August 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Scotty, What type of rims do you have? Why do they drop air? How old are they? You now have me curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Scotty, What type of rims do you have? Why do they drop air? How old are they? You now have me curious. They are chrome, here they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 I still question why I must re-chrome a wheel that's in great shape other than the bead area. Proper adheshion. The wheel must be cleaned, stripped, cleaned again, run through a zincate process to protect the aluminum, copper plated, buffed, nickle plated, and then chromed. There is no way to just chrome the damaged area and get it to hold up. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadiKing Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 [...Maybe you can describe how a wheel can be electro-plated on just the front portion of the wheel... Kevin, My Caddy rims are entirely chrome plated. No Complaints. My Chrysler Rims are only plated on the front surface. This can be done either by suspending them partially in solution or by applying a product which retards the plating in the areas applied. It's is called selective chrome plating. Every inch of the Chrysler rims without the plating is oxidizing like mad! Sometimes the wheels would become stuck to the hub, until I applied Never-Sieze.. I have had success by cleaning and repainting the sealing surface of some rims when I was able to get to it early on in its degredation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal.carceller@cox.net Posted August 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Scotty, I have the same exact rims you have on my 93 Seville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Kevin, My Caddy rims are entirely chrome plated. No Complaints. My Chrysler Rims are only plated on the front surface. This can be done either by suspending them partially in solution or by applying a product which retards the plating in the areas applied. It's is called selective chrome plating. Every inch of the Chrysler rims without the plating is oxidizing like mad! Sometimes the wheels would become stuck to the hub, until I applied Never-Sieze.. I have had success by cleaning and repainting the sealing surface of some rims when I was able to get to it early on in its degredation. My '96 Seville rims are chrome plated and so far, no complaints. I totally forgot about the selective plating process... my mistake! Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmpafford Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 Ok, I appoligize for the engineer comment it was not my best judgment to say that and added no value to my problem or this thread. With that said, I am not a chrome expert but if things are as you say then why isn't the entire rim chrome? my chrome only extends into the tire bead by a little bit. For example the back side of the rim is not electroplated at all. All I was trying to say was that many other factrory rims Porsche and Mercedes for one do not have chrome on the bead. You may be right that they chrome them but then they must go through the task of removing the chrome from the bead. Why would they do that? You now have me wondering? I have a good friend in FL that does electro plating for me for my work with older Porsche models. I will chat to get his oppinion on this issue. I still question why I must re-chrome a wheel that's in great shape other than the bead area. Older Porsches and Mercedes used steel rims and the WHOLE rim is chrome plated, but only the face is polished making it look like only part of the rim has been "chromed". Your aluminum rims are also 100% chromed. Alumnium is a softer metal than the chorme plating. Normal wear and tear on the rim will cause the aluminum rim to flex more than the chrome can. Tire changing tools like was mentioned earlier can put extreme pressure on the rim when changing the tire. If the chrome still looks good on the front, you might also try a clear coat paint on the back of the rim. Try it before you sand the rest of the chrome off the rim. Something like an outdoor spray enamel from the hardware store. The paint should remain flexible enough to keep the rim sealed as the rim flexex and the chrome cracks and will keep the aluminum from oxidizing and turning dull on the parts that are already exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmpafford Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 [...Maybe you can describe how a wheel can be electro-plated on just the front portion of the wheel... Kevin, My Caddy rims are entirely chrome plated. No Complaints. My Chrysler Rims are only plated on the front surface. This can be done either by suspending them partially in solution or by applying a product which retards the plating in the areas applied. It's is called selective chrome plating. Every inch of the Chrysler rims without the plating is oxidizing like mad! Sometimes the wheels would become stuck to the hub, until I applied Never-Sieze.. I have had success by cleaning and repainting the sealing surface of some rims when I was able to get to it early on in its degredation. Well, I'll be! I would have thought that it would have been cheaper to just dip the whole rim in the solution. You learn something new every day! However, I think that most local chrome shops would just dip the whole rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Hank Posted August 18, 2005 Report Share Posted August 18, 2005 I'd use a DA sander like you suggested with maybe a finer grit, say 250. Or better yet, if you have a die grinder with a wire brush disk, that would probably do it the quickest and give you the best control of the manual cleaning process. I would then give the lip of the rim a coat of standard metal primer and let it dry good, maybe a full day under the sun or dry atmosphere, at least. I would not go to any expense beyond that, buying new rims seem extreme,.... unless you want to buy my 17x7.5 Neeper Mynx rims.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterset Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Additionally, I heard that the use of products along the lines of fix-a-flat etc. can significantly contribute to a corrosion issue in chrome plated rims. Could be the original poster of this tread has a rim that was a victim of those products by someone else. Personally, I am not an advocate of injecting moisture into my tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Additionally, I heard that the use of products along the lines of fix-a-flat etc. can significantly contribute to a corrosion issue in chrome plated rims. Could be the original poster of this tread has a rim that was a victim of those products by someone else. Personally, I am not an advocate of injecting moisture into my tires. Hmm I did not know that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Additionally, I heard that the use of products along the lines of fix-a-flat etc. can significantly contribute to a corrosion issue in chrome plated rims. Could be the original poster of this tread has a rim that was a victim of those products by someone else. Personally, I am not an advocate of injecting moisture into my tires. Hmm I did not know that.. That is true. I once used that crap in a garden tractor tire that would not hold air due to it's low (6#) pressure. When I finally decided to fix the problem and install a tube, you would not believe the amount of corrsion inside the wheel. I will never use that stuff again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 My wifes car has a slow leak, I ALMOST used it this past weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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