2009 STS-V

[Luke]

I've been wanting an STS-V since they came out and I finally bought one! It's a (very rare) 2009 STS-V which is (even more rare) Thunder Gray ChromaFlair in color. Only 96 STS-V's were produced in 2009 and of those, only 14 were painted gray!

This car will be more of my weekend car. Although I will want to drive it daily, I work in a not so nice neighborhood in Fort Worth. Plus, being so rare, I don't want to pile the in-town miles on the car. I have opted to keep my 2006 DTS to drive to work. It has 139,000 miles and has been a very reliable car so far.

So, any suggestions what I should do with this car? I'm sure I will have a computer program done like I did on the DTS. I'm not sure what else I should do. Larger intercooler? New intake? I know there are plenty of mods available for this car but not sure where to start. What would you all suggest?

[Cadillac Jim]

Our Host and Fearless Leader has an STS-V and had done wonders with it. His blog is linked from the main page:

http://caddyinfo.com

Here's his first blog on this car, about a year ago:

http://caddyinfo.com/wordpress/caddyinfo-cadillac-articles/current-cadillac/

Here's Bruce's own board on his 2008 STS-V:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showforum=89

Bruce has done some intercooler and intake mods, and has achieved major gains without compromising reliability. I've ridden in his car and got a CTS-V the same day, and his car drives very much like mine.

I'm sure he will be along shortly.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Congrats on the new STS-V Luke.

• Spectre Intake +20 hp
• Corsa exhaust + 20 hp
• HP Tuners restore AFR
• smaller upper pulley = 2.8" down to 2.55" or 2.4" +torque

After that it can get expensive.

[Cadillac Jim]

There you go, 500+ hp is low-hanging fruit.

[airmike]

Very nice. I admire all caddys with a v on them !!! I agree on the cai and tune first thing.

Is 09 the end of a run for sts-v?

[Luke]

Yes, 2009 was the last year for the STS-V. Only 96 were produced for 2009.

Thanks for the suggestions. I will definitely be doing the exhaust and computer.

As for the intake, the Spectre system looks very nice and is quite affordable. My concern is, how loud is the supercharger whine? The ones I have seen on YouTube sound kinda horrible. They sound like crotch rockets at 12,000 rpm's. LOL A little is fine but how loud are the Spectre ones?

For the computer, I will take the car to a programmer in San Antonio and have a wide band tune done after other modifications are completed.

Who is a good supplier for supercharger pullies and larger intercoolers for these cars?

[Bruce Nunnally]

I like the supercharger whine, but if you do not, then stay away from the CAIs.

To take a smaller pulley, the hub of the supercharger has to be turned down a bit (reduced in diameter)

to allow for the smaller inner diameter of the smaller pulley. The pulleys are pressed on/off, and are

not considered serviceable by Cadillac for that reason. Users often do simply press them off/on with

specialized hand tools.

Tim Coeling <t_coel@yahoo.com> offers a trade-in turned supercharger hub with pulley, or just custom pulleys.

You can have a local machine shop turn down your hub.

Smoothflow also offers pulleys: http://smoothflowpulleys.com/Cadillac_V-Series.html

Larger intercoolers -- I have a front-mount intercooler heat exchanger I purchased from Tim, an

additional intercooler coolant inline tank, and and aftermarket Jabsco pump. After quite a bit of

study on this topic, and work, my intercooler coolant runs 10-15F less than stock.

While that is helpful, my overall conclusion is the best approach to cooling would be a killer chiller type

approach to use A/C refrigerant to cool the intercooler coolant, or to go to methanol injection for

air stream cooling and leave the stock intercooler coolant system as is.

Conventional wisdom though is go with the largest nose mounted heat exchanger you can add

because it helps, and does not require refills.

[Göran W]

So, any suggestions what I should do with this car?

Sorry, I do NOT understand the Q!

You definetly stated that You wanted a STS-V. If You wanted something else You should have bought someting else. Like You said it is rare car. Why ruin it?

Ok, it is your car.........

[Cadillac Jim]

I've ridden in Bruce's STS-V and there is no audible supercharger whine unless he invokes boost. The volume of the whine increases with boost. At loudest, it's noticable but not obtrusive, and is quite impressive, which is why Bruce, and I, like it. If you have the stereo on, it won't interfere with the music, although I assure you that if you are invoking boost, your attention will be on the road and the rapidly changing situation, not the radio.

[TimC]

Bruce emailed me and asked if I wanted to be a part of this conversation. I said I sure did and signed up just now.

You might recognize me from the other forum as TimmyC. I'm the main aftermarket supporter for the STS-V. I'll give a quick rundown of my offerings and answer any questions you have.

I have a CAI. It is 4" tubing from air filter to throttle body and eliminates the restrictive cast Y piece behind the supercharger

$399

Bolt-in heat exchanger.

$299

2.4" supercharger pulley. Massive torque increase and 20+rwhp Since this is your weekend car I recommend sending your snout in for machining rather than using my core service. The core is fine, but might as well keep your car original.

$329 for the 2.4 installed on your snout with a new bottle of supercharger oil.

85mm throttle body upgrade.

The stock tb is 80mm and there are no larger replacements available. I take the stock throttle body, bore it out to 85mm, and manufacture a new blade to fit the larger diameter. Additional 11rwhp gain over stock throttle body with my 2.4 pulley.

Headers. The ultimate in exhaust efficiency. They add a nice sound under heavy throttle too.

$1199

60# injectors. Siemens Deka 60s

$350

Email me at t_coel@yahoo.com or post on this thread for more info about my stuff.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Welcome Tim!

[Cadillac Jim]

What do you offer for the CTS-V?

[TimC]

I'm focused on the STS-V right now. Eventually I'll get a CTS-V2 and make many parts for it.

[Cadillac Jim]

I'll be watching. I'm interested in intake/intercooler items that won't void powertrain warranty.

[TimC]

Do you have a tune on the car now? Most good intakes require a tune adjustment and that will void the warranty right there.

[Cadillac Jim]

No, AFAIK the car is stone cold stock. I'm not doing anything that will void the powertrain warranty until it expires.

If I had the money to make a hot-rod out of a used CTS-V and the room to house one appropriately, I would consider that for such a car. But this car is my daily driver and our principal household vehicle for everything from road trips to groceries and errands, and I do want the warranty that I paid for with the car, no games, no BS.

On the other hand, if a better intercooler pump, Borla exhaust sytem, or some such improves things without voiding the warranty, I'm interested.

[Texas Jim]

Do you have a tune on the car now? Most good intakes require a tune adjustment and that will void the warranty right there.

I am not advocating this .... but....

On the late model CTS "V".... you can get a 2nd ECM and a 2nd TCM and put the tune on those and keep the stock ECM and TCM totally stock and switch back as forth whenever you want to.

[Cadillac Jim]

TJ - if you have one set of parts to drive and another set to put on to have the car worked on, this basically puts you in the position of being accused of fraud if you have a warranty claim. Even if you are using an aftermarket PCM or TCM and you put in a claim when a wheel cracks or the serpentine belt, alternator, A/C compressor, etc. fails, you can lose the warranty and more. So, not for me, no BS, no games, not with this car.

If I can afford a car that I can lose, I'll make a hot rod out of it and take it to the strip, etc.

I have drawn a bead on a Borla system. They offer a cat-back, but they say that it's for "off-road" use only. Perhaps I should call them and ask them what they mean by that, because the main blurb has all the right words for a street setup, such as "no resonance in the cabin" that would not be appropriate for an off-road only system. Perhaps they mean "barely legal and your wife/husband won't like it" or "when you nail it, everybody knows for two blocks" or some such.

My thinking is that intercooler mods that improve efficiency, like a better pump an a more efficient bolt-on heat exchanger, etc. won't affect reliability and thus shouldn't affect warranty, and Bruce has gotten great advantage out of some of these things and plans more.

[Texas Jim]

TJ - if you have one set of parts to drive and another set to put on to have the car worked on, this basically puts you in the position of being accused of fraud if you have a warranty claim. Even if you are using an aftermarket PCM or TCM and you put in a claim when a wheel cracks or the serpentine belt, alternator, A/C compressor, etc. fails, you can lose the warranty and more. So, not for me, no BS, no games, not with this car.

Don't want to start an argument... but the Magnuson-Moss act says that only an after-market part that is not SEMA certified and then causes a problem will void the warranty and only the part of the warranty that part is installed on.

For instance... if I modify the Transmission Control Unit, than have a transmission problem.

The dealer can claim that "MY" modification caused the problem and refuse to fix the transmission under warranty "AND" make a note in the GM Online computer system that they use so I can not take it to another dealer that might overlook what I did to it..... but he can not void the rest of the warranty on the vehicle.

If my NAV system was also broken... he would still be obligated to fix the NAV... because it had nothing to do with what I did to the transmission.

But you are right about it bordering on fraud... I was prepared to bite the bullet and pay for anything that broke due to my modifications of my vehicle.

[Cadillac Jim]

Ah, this is something I never heard of: the Magnuson-Moss Act. The Wikipedia article (see the link) is a quick and interesting read. I was far too conservative with the ETC while it was in warranty. Only after it was out of warranty a couple of years did it grow a low-restriction cat, Borlas, Sylvania Silverlight headlights, and lots of other little things.

The law was passed in 1975, a time when CP/M 8080 and Z80 based computer vendors were selling branded memory, floppies, HDs, and other upgrades and peripherals at exorbitant prices. Apple still does that when they can with Macs, although I get upgrades for my wife's Mac from Newegg, quite probably thanks to the Magnuson-Moss Act.

Lots of vendors of cars and other consumer goods talk like the only parts that will work are theirs, still today. I do recall hearing of warranty issues in the 1950's and 1960's with car's warranties being contested if an oil filter was a Fram, not a Motorcraft/Mopar/AC-Delco or whatever. Even then it didn't stick but it's expensive to fight.

Then, I'm clear on my differential, A/C compressor, alternator, and engine/transmission if I get Borlas. In fact, I think that the dealers sell Borlas; I may ask, although I don't know where I would get them or have them installed.

Some parts, like the intercooler pump and the bolt-on heat exchanger, are clearly in the exempt domain defined in the Magnuson-Moss Act because they can't cause a failure outside the pump itself because the PCM will simply shut down the boost if the IAT2 gets too high.

I don't think that anyone would have a very strong case arguing that a TCU caused a transmission failure, unless it can be shown that it deliberately let the transmission slip for extended periods while under load, did bang-bang shifts that exceeded internal stress limits, overstressed pump pressures, or some other obvious issue not likely seen in a TCU intended for street cars. Most transmission failures are caused by age/wear, defective parts like sprags, pumps and seals, poor maintenance like running with low or out-of-spec fluid, or abuse such as towing or shifting into gear at high RPM.

I don't think that re-tuning a factory PCM could cause a failure if its base software and limits are sound, as is the case with GM PCMs and most other manufacturer's internally designed parts. Exceptions are PCMs that allow reprogramming and use of parameters outside the safety range of the engine and transmission, like changing the spark map with the knock sensor disabled, which I don't think is allowable, even with the V-series. I would want a definitive reading on that, though, before I had my PCM reprogrammed by a tuner. Changing the chip, or the ROM, though, is another story.

My thinking is that I can drive the car for a couple of years and get to the end of the manufacturer's warranty, then I am free as a bird. Also, I will have a lot better idea of the car's capabilities and limitations, and also on what is out there. Right now, I think the biggest limitation on the car is the tires, and the simplest improvements will be in the intercooler. I especially like Bruce's new find, the fellow who puts the A/C evaporator in the intercooler. But, I would want a whole separate A/C for that - yes, two A/C compressors and condensors, one for the cabin and one for the intercooler. Perhaps, like the A/C compressor clutch letting go under full throttle, the freon can be re-routed under full throttle, but I like 45 F air in the intake all the time, and I like my A/C too.

[TimC]

ECU parameters can easily be changed in a way that would damage the engine. Too much timing and not enough fuel are two easy ones.

I don't really understand waiting till the warranty period is up before installing modifications. Is the car less likely to break after the warranty expires?

[Cadillac Jim]

The warranty has cash value. It's an insurance policy that covers failures and unplanned repairs. I don't want to give that up.

I don't ever plan to do things that are likely to cause failures to my daily driver, warranty or no. It's a car for transportation, not racing. If I have a car for competition, that would be different. For one thing, I would never buy a warranty on a car that I intend to use in competition of any kind because to me that's silly wasted money that could better go into mods and enhancements.

But, it's really nice to read about people who take cars just like mine and measure 500+ hp at the wheels, go 0-60 mph in 3.7 seconds, and go the quarter mile in 12.0 seconds at 120 mph. But I don't have to drop the pressure in my rear tires to 28 psi, raise the pressure in the fronts to 50 psi, an then go make time trials on a drag strip, I can simply enjoy my car, knowing that people here do that with exactly the same car. Then, they mod the intake, intercooler, and change the pulleys. Let the good times roll.

[Luke]

Sorry I haven't replied to this post in so long. I finally picked up the car in mid-August and made the 1,600 mile trip home. Even though I only had 3 days off work, I was able to make time after picking up the car to take the PATH train from Newark Penn Station to the World Trade Center to see the 9/11 memorial. Very quick trip but also very memorable!

So far, I am definitely loving it! It's an amazing car!

In September, the check engine light came on and it turned out to be the bank #1 catalytic converter. While the warranty has expired, the emission warranty covered the catcon replacement. I was given a brand new ATS 2.0T to drive while it was being repaired. Fun little car. I may consider replacing the DTS with one someday.

Anyway, I have had no time to do much of anything with the STS-V. Here is what I have planned:

•Tinted Windows

•Spectre Intake

•Gibson Axle back exhaust (stainless)

•Wide band computer tune

I decided to go with the Gibson instead of the Corsa after quite a bit of research mostly because of cost. The Gibson system is quite a bit cheaper and upon watching quite a few videos on Youtube of STS-V's with them installed, I like the sound.

I have been thinking I would have a 2.4" pulley installed but would like to explore these options first for even more power:

http://stiegemeier.com/services/snakebite-kit/

http://stiegemeier.com/services/supercharger-porting/

Perhaps the Snakebite Kit is a bit of overkill. I may go with the supercharger porting service combined with a 2.4" pulley.

I may consider having the wheels chromed but that will be after all the performance upgrades are completed.

[Cadillac Jim]

You might fine replacement wheels cheaper and less likely to give problems (flaking chrome, leaking beads) than wheels that have been chrome plated after-market. Check out our Caddyinfo Supporting Vendor, Cardio-Doc on Wheels, with his eBay store "Direct:"

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/Direct

[Luke]

UPDATE

The modifications have been a bit slow so far. I had to finish paying off a trip to Europe that I'm going on next month first.

So far, I have installed the Spectre stage 1 CAI and the stage 2 is on order. As you can see, the windows have been tinted. I went with 20% on the sides and 5% on the rear window. I know, not legal, but it looks good and sure blocks out the heat of the Texas sun!

As soon as I return from my trip, I am going to order the Gibson axle back exhaust (part number 616000). I have found it for $358 shipped. After that, I am going to have a 2.4" supercharger pulley installed and then have the computer tuned.

And, Cadillac Jim, chrome wheels were not an option on the STS-V. Likely any you see with chrome wheels were chromed aftermarket.

Since my last update, I had an issue where the check engine light would come on and the display would say ENGINE HOT - AC OFF. At the same time, the temperature gauge would drop to the bottom. Odd since if it's overheating, it would be good to see the engine temp. As it turns out, it's common on STS-V's. The thermostats wear out and if the computer senses the engine is warming up slower than it thinks it should, it defaults to overheat mode. It didn't happen often. All I had to do was use my scanning tool to reset it and it would be fine. But, I replaced the thermostat myself and it hasn't happened since.

BTW, I have noticed that if I put it in competitive driving mode, it gets 1-2 mpg better on the highway. Does this make sense to anyone?

Edited April 29, 2014 by Luke