FS: CTS with V6 to V8 Swap

[Bruce Nunnally]

Interesting for sale post: 2006 Cadillac CTS with LS2 Swap 34k Miles! CTS-V - $16500 (Keller)

I have up for sale my CTS that started as a 3.6L and I swapped a LS2 into it. The body has 91k miles and all the power and drivetrain have 34k miles on them. Here is a list of all the parts put into it:

Read More: http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/cto/3845521566.html

[Bruce Nunnally]

[Texas Jim]

That's interesting...

[cdgrinci]

Snug as a bug in a rug; I think I'd rather have the "V" if so inclined for a V-8.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Agree; clearly it is possible, but certainly hard to see how it would be economic (cost less) than just selling the CTS and buying a CTS-V, which brings suspension, brakes, transmission, etc.

[Cadillac Jim]

But, what fun as a project car! He drove it for 35K miles, so perhaps he didn't have the brakes and suspension to support the engine, but it must have been great fun in a straight line on a clear road.

The problem is, for what it takes to build and straighten out a car like that, you could indeed have a V. If you want a sleeper, change the grille and take off the V emblems. Perhaps there is four-cylinder badging?

[Derrick Cleveland]

Just came across this! That's my car. I have plenty of pictures and can give advice to anyone looking for it.

[Cadillac Jim]

There are a couple of things I would like to see about this car: pictures, and a narrative on how you solved the problems. My experience in doing something similar in the 1960's is that you start with the engine, and then you solve problems as they emerge until there aren't any more problems. I would like to hear that story about this car. Your story will help us all to understand and appreciate both the 3.6 and 6.2 liter drivetrains and chassis' better.

[Derrick Cleveland]

Hey, sorry for the extremely late reply. Been busy with holidays and school.

Throughout the project I ran into alot of problems since this had never been done before I had to figure out everything on my own, while the caddy forum I was part of only received a "good job" or "you're stupid" comments. The first big thing was getting the engine and transmission. I bought the ls2 and t56 from a guy in Kentucky with very low miles (I belive it was Kentucky) and I also got the driveshaft, differential, and rear axles. My cts was a 6 speed to begin with so I didnt have to deal with all the pedal swapping ect. Based on weight differences, the ls2 didn't have a huge difference in weight than the ly7. I used ly7 motor mounts to move the motor forward thus allowing more room for the transmission accessablity. Everything went smoothly until wiring. Of course the engine came with a wiring harness, but it doesn't match the base cts wiring harness obviously. I ended up replacing the entire dash harness. I replaced it all because I got a steal on the price of the harness and I didn't feel like splicing wires since electronics are my least favorite part. This could have just spliced it in at the firewall. Another problem was the clutch. I was sent 2 wrong clutches. I ended up going to monster clutch co and getting a stage 3 and 18lb fly. Next problem was bleeding the clutch system. Not knowing gm products well (I am a ford guy) I didn't know that the cadillacs had a 2 part prebled system so the slave would simply burst which happened multiple times.

I'd like to cover a few criticims of this project. First and foremost, for those who thought it would never happen or it was impossible, I obviously proved you wrong. Second, many people say it is impractical because you could get a v for cheaper. I find this to be a big bag of crap. Not only was I not able to (nor would I) sell my 3.6l cts because the motor had internal damages, but the entire cost of my project was about $7,500. Even if you paid $10,000 for a 3.6l cts, this cost comes out to be in key with the v. Many people however find their cts for much less than a dime. Keep in mind that this cost was including the performance parts I added, and that I had some good deals and hookups come through on this. Looking for the deals is the key. Third, I want to cover the braking issue. Many argue that the v brembos are far superior. After research, they only help in scenarios of autox. There isn't a benefit on the street or highway, the 3.6 and v weights are identical. I used my 3.6l brakes and used no abs. This can cause the vehicle to stop faster since the brakes aren't pulsating. Some say this is unsafe, but I never had any issues at all even in scenarios when I had to brake quickly. If you look into depth on this, the Chrysler brembos are in fact worse than the base model brakes and are only there for show. And throughout the caddy forums you will find v owners swapping brakes to base model for wheel fitment ect.

I'll be posting up pictures here in a few. Ill put some during and after pictures. Once again, sorry for the late reply!

[Derrick Cleveland]

Sneaked in a picture of my father's 2012 V. Note that I pay for all of my builds and parents contribute nothing.

[Bruce Nunnally]

Nice; thanks for the updates. You did all the work yourself and I assume had fun doing the project. If you had to pay someone to do the work instead that would I assume make the conversion $ significantly higher?

I like that you did it, as it shows what one can do. For the average person I would still recommend buying a V rather than converting a V6. But the next time someone asks, I'll stick to my favorite response: "How much money do you have? How fast do you want to go?"

[Derrick Cleveland]

Yes, I did all the work myself asides welding the exhaust. Withou a doubt, if this was done at a shop you would get charged more. BUT, based on mechanic hours, I believe it only calls for 24 hours on a powertrain removal and install. This is for pulling and replacing with the same, but they are a good amount of hours regardless. Some shops may not work on the vehicle since the the swap isn't conventional, and others may refer you to a custom chop shop where prices will be higher. From doing the swap, it has opened my eyes greatly to how simple cars are. If given the chance, I would not hesitate to do it again myself even if given thr money to pay a shop to do it. Nothing beats the experience you gain, the mechanical skills you learn (I have had 3 projects before this so I'd my fair share of knowledge), and the nights having friends come help out and hang out, along with the pride of saying "I built this".

For the average person, I wouldn't do this swap. The time involved is greater than one would like to spend especially if the cts was their only vehicle. Selling and buying is more convenient as well. Many people say it's the price, I disagree as I stated. You pay for the convenience. This is very similar to those that would rather build things themselves (which costs less monetarily, but cost more in time) versus someone who buys the finished product (costs more monetarily, but costs less in time).

Addressing points in a post you had; suspension: I had v front and rear sway bars, and eibach springs. Everything else other than the springs and sway bars are exactly identical. The only difference in the two being a) thickness of the sway bars from base to v and the spring rate by a marginal difference.

Where the v does make difference heavily compared to my vehicle is the v bumper (front and rear), rocker pannels, and suede/ leather interior. One can simply get the v front bumper used and call it a day.

[airmike]

I want to hear about you flogging it!! You can't go to all that work and then not find out the results. Also more details about the build would be interesting for many of us. Have you broke anything since? What other forum is this car on, I would like to read about it as well as the comments? Personally I love this kind of thing. I applaud your ingenuity, effort and results. There is NOTHING like the feeling of "I did this".

[Cadillac Jim]

Your information on the brakes is especially illuminating. Your last post, that for a second car this is a practical, do-able project, is also very good information for me and for Caddyinfo. Thank you for your time and interest.

Have you done performance testing?

[Derrick Cleveland]

Haha of course I ran through the gears. I wasn't overly happy with the choice of the stage 3 clutch. It didn't provide enough "bite" for me. My past vehicle was a 2003 Mach 1 mustang and that had a stage 2 clutch in it and it would jump on you if you weren't paying attention. That is the clutch I like. More over, choosing a clutch is not only about horsepower and torque, actually it really doesn't factor in horsepower too much. It also involves the weight of the vehicle. That is one thing I would change.

You all probably wouldn't believe me, but the max speed I took it to was 223 mph. Because me and my co-driver didn't believe the electronic readout, we did plug in the information into a gear ratio calculator and got a very similar number.

The car is also on cadillac owners I believe. The tread however is very long and I stopped posting on it due to the lack of support and respect I was getting.

I do not own the car anymore. I had to sell it because of going to college and the roads are treacherous down here. I have a toyota avalon atm and even that vehicle will bottom out occasionally. I do know that the owner who bought the car did mess it up somehow since he was trying to convert it to a stock v, I.e. oem headers, oem exhaust, oem intake, ect so on and so forth. I am not sure if or what the current state of the car is now.

There was plan to get the car dyno'ed before selling, but my buddy who has a dyno at his school couldn't get me in and the shop local which I know the owner of couldn't get me a spot either. However, we did hook it up to a GM ii scanner and went through all the electronics.

[Cadillac Jim]

223 mph. Mmmm.

My experience with public roads at 100+ mph is that there is no such thing as good quality pavement for any length of time. Even the best Interstate or parkway will have a soft spot that settled a bit or a variation in elevation that is imperceptible at reasonable highways speeds, say up to 85 mph. And, tire life is measured in hours, not months or years.

Where did you find a place where you could take a CTS up to 223 mph without being pitched into the air?

[Derrick Cleveland]

We have an extremely long stretch of highway that is newly paved and runs for about 4 hours of driving if you go speed limit. The cts was also extremely low to the ground, to the point I couldn't pull it into my driveway.

[Cadillac Jim]

Amazing. Thanks.

[Texas Jim]

We have an extremely long stretch of highway that is newly paved and runs for about 4 hours of driving if you go speed limit. The cts was also extremely low to the ground, to the point I couldn't pull it into my driveway.

Where is that stretch of road at ??

I haven't seen anything newly paved lately, that's much over a half mile...

[Jon Holderness]

Just came across this! That's my car. I have plenty of pictures and can give advice to anyone looking for it.

Hey dude, hoping you still get emails from this forum!

i have a few questions about cooling, and accessories on this project.

i think i want to attempt this "dare to be different" project. any additional pictures would be awesome.