Regis Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 First let me say that typically I'm not an additive person. My old neighbor(used to work on race cars) is and my mechanic isn't. Last week I had the caddy in for mutiple service (LOF ,coolant change, egr canister clean, sticking rear brake). When everything is about done I get talking to him about intermittent lack of power. Now he's been with me for awhile and knows the caddy well, and immediately states "it's your injectors.... they're getting fouled up!" He proceeds over to a work shelf and after a brief digging around session produces a bottle of Lucas injector cleaner and holds it out to me like a kid who just won his first blue ribbon. "This stuff is amazing!" he exclaims. "I used it on my father's bonneville last year and it cleared the fouled injectors in one tank." You can imagine the look on my face. Here's a guy that's been telling me all along that additives are basicly snake oil and now this. I had to laugh and remind him as he's pouring the Lucas in that the fuel pump is new. But I had to consider just how excited he was about this product so I let him run with it. I hopped in and drove it over to a nearby gas station and topped off the gas. For the next two days I rode the caddy like a cheap saddle, demanding everything she had. Half way through day 2 I could really feel a difference. She was accelerating much better, idled better. Now a week later I can say that I'm impressed. I haven't noticed this much performance change since the carbon cleaning (phenolic spacers, eger tube,and new canister) 2 years ago. I know you Lucas oil fans will love reading this, however, I'm still keeping a hairy eyeball on additives in general. I just couldn't argue this one. -kg "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 I have had a similar experience (why do I feel aplogetic and shameful, ). I do believe that it is an oil based product and not a solvent based product like the Techron/STP stuff, so I am more comfortable using it. I think it lightly lubes the intake/fuel system (injectors, intake valves, cylinder walls). But that is just my humble opinion and experience. Hopefully the lube will not become gummy at some point and gum up the works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted September 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Hahaaa Scotty, I see you "feel" how difficult it was for me to write this. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Weeellll...I've used Lucas products on a couple of other cars I have, when all else failed and only parts repaclement was an unwelcome option at the time. One was a whining posi rear end on a '69 Chevelle that I really didn't feel like changing out. Tried all the standard fixes...Nope. Filled it 2/3 GM posi lube, 1/3 Lucas oil 'stiffener'..problem GONE. That's a lot of 'spirited' miles ago too. The other annoyance was a leaky seal on a '68 Camero power steering pump. I wanted to drive it that weekend and really wasn't in the mood for changing that either. Wen't to the local NAPA and looked at a big display of Lucas stuff. Ok, power steering additive for leaks. Hmmm...What the hell, I'm going to change it soon anyway, right? I think it's been two years, and it's still tighter than a knat's behind. Now, I'm not pichting Lucas products or additves by any stretch, but.... '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Hahaaa Scotty, I see you "feel" how difficult it was for me to write this. Did I say that??!? Who me?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Now, I'm not pichting Lucas products or additves by any stretch, but.... Sounds apologetic to meeeee..... I know you are only relaying your experience.. like me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Now, I'm not pichting Lucas products or additves by any stretch, but.... >"Sounds apologetic to meeeee.....<" I know you are only relaying your experience.. like me Ok look...brother bbobynski has threatened to dissown me for a number of things, I figure he'll just add this to his list. LOL '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franey Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 MY sons dozer had a massive seal leak on one of the tracks , mega bucks to fix, so with nothing to lose we filled it with regular lucas and their stop leak for seals and in two days , no more leak. THAT has been two years ago and with heavy use it has not leaked a drop. I PUT IT IN MY LAWN MOWER. I have used it for years in everything , and it has always lived up to their claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adallak Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 I'm not an additive person a new classification of humans... http://www.lucasoil.com/index.sd this is for additive type The saddest thing in life is wasted talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronM Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Hi, Awesome! I want to use something like this to clean my injectors up a little. I am not sure if they need it, but with almost 90k miles, it sure wouldn't hurt ! I have heard that some of these additives can damage the fuel pump. I did a little bit of seaching and lots of people seem to like this stuff. I didn't see anything about damaged fuel pumps. Does anyone know any big chains that sell this stuff? (Wal-mart, Target, ect) Keep us posted! -Aaron 18 Year Old Male Black 1992 STS 4.9L 90,XXX Miles Flowmaster 80 series muffler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Awesome! Bob D, NOW look what you did, you have people saying AWESOME in relation to additives ! Aaron, yes you are correct, some of the solvent based injector cleaners can damage the fuel pump windings. Our local engineer (bbobynski) commented that the solvent based products took the insulating varnish off the fuel pump windings in his testing. That was the last time I used Techron. The Lucas is an oil based product not solvent based (excuse me if solvent based is not the correct term, but I think you know what I mean). Not that I am a chemist or engineer, but for some reason, I feel more comfortable with the oil based product and I have seen a lot of positive experiences with it. USE is ONLY as directed however and using MORE in this case is NOT better. If you do use it report back with your results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted September 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Hi, Awesome! I want to use something like this to clean my injectors up a little. I am not sure if they need it, but with almost 90k miles, it sure wouldn't hurt ! I have heard that some of these additives can damage the fuel pump. I did a little bit of seaching and lots of people seem to like this stuff. I didn't see anything about damaged fuel pumps. Does anyone know any big chains that sell this stuff? (Wal-mart, Target, ect) Keep us posted! -Aaron Pep Boys has it but unless you're sure you have a problem I wouldn't add anything. How does that saying go? "If it ain't broke don't fix it." You could be fixing absolutely nothing, waste money, and cause problems that didn't previously exist....... unless that's your thing. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob D Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Awesome! Bob D, NOW look what you did, you have people saying AWESOME in relation to additives ! Yeah Mr. Scott, I knew I was setting myself up.... Aaron, don't blame any future injector failures on me!! Honestly, I'm from the "IF it aint broke, DON"T FIX IT!!" school. If my machine was running fine, I wouldn't put ANY additives in it. And after that only as a last resort, when all else fails before major repair or replacement. '93 STS.. opened, dropped, wide...fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Aaron, yes you are correct, some of the solvent based injector cleaners can damage the fuel pump windings. Our local engineer (bbobynski) commented that the solvent based products took the insulating varnish of the fuel pump windings in his testing. That was the last time I used Techron. The Lucas is an oil based product not solvent based (excuse me if solvent based is not the correct term, but I think you know what I mean). Not that I am a chemist or engineer, but for some reason, I feel more comfortable with the oil based product and I have seen a lot of positive experiences with it. USE is ONLY as directed however and using MORE in this case is NOT better. If you do use it report back with your results Whoa up there a bit partner! Why do you assume Techron is solvent based? Techron is a gasoline detergent additive that is used by millions of motorists every day. It is added to every gallon of gasoline that Chevron sells, and Chevron sells some great fuel. Please don't unintentionally mis-lead people into thinking that this stuff is bad for their car. Now, your last statement may be correct. Some people think that if a little is good, then a little more MUST be better. I think bbobynski warned most of us not to go overboard on additives. I don't think he would name a particular brand..that's just not a good idea. I think he was also trying to tell people not to waste their money since most of the time the benefits of these additives are questionable at best. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Oh I do include Techron with STP type products. If I am wrong about that I am sorry, but I did not think there was ANY difference. I used to use Techron before our many discussions about injector cleaner, and YES I do know that Chevron includes it in their gas but I am sure at a very low level. This discussion of injector cleaners has always been a spirited one.... The BIGGEST problem is both the immediate and long term damage done to the windings on the fuel pumps and injectors, and that is too much of a risk for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted September 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Aaron, yes you are correct, some of the solvent based injector cleaners can damage the fuel pump windings. Our local engineer (bbobynski) commented that the solvent based products took the insulating varnish of the fuel pump windings in his testing. That was the last time I used Techron. The Lucas is an oil based product not solvent based (excuse me if solvent based is not the correct term, but I think you know what I mean). Not that I am a chemist or engineer, but for some reason, I feel more comfortable with the oil based product and I have seen a lot of positive experiences with it. USE is ONLY as directed however and using MORE in this case is NOT better. If you do use it report back with your results Whoa up there a bit partner! Why do you assume Techron is solvent based? Techron is a gasoline detergent additive that is used by millions of motorists every day. It is added to every gallon of gasoline that Chevron sells, and Chevron sells some great fuel. Please don't unintentionally mis-lead people into thinking that this stuff is bad for their car. Now, your last statement may be correct. Some people think that if a little is good, then a little more MUST be better. I think bbobynski warned most of us not to go overboard on additives. I don't think he would name a particular brand..that's just not a good idea. I think he was also trying to tell people not to waste their money since most of the time the benefits of these additives are questionable at best. Whether it is or not a solvent, I don't think comparing the techron in chevron gasoline to the techron sold in bottles is remotely the same. I think it is fair to say that the concentration of techron in the chevron gasoline is quite a bit different then the level if one were to dump a bottle techron additive into a tank of gas. Like comparing guppies to whales. And I quote: " Some people think that if a little is good, then a little more MUST be better." "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Not only that but for awhile I was buying the BIG and I mean BIG bottle of Techron myself, its twice the size of a normal bottle, I also thinking that MORE was BETTER. That was before I was set straight. If you have ever worked with motor windings you know that they are coated with a brown varnish like coating. In the old days I used to do a lot of alternator and generator work, and occasionally had to resolder these wires, if I had a solvent, I could clean the varnish off with it. When our local engineer spoke of injector cleaners stripping the coating off windings I understood totally. So I no longer take chances with the cleaner, its not like you can replace fuel pumps easily. I must say this however, I just did a search of the archives and I did not see much freaking out about Techron use, so I may have LUMPED Techron in with other injector cleaners, and I may be wrong (hey even Dan Rather is wrong once in a while! ). The reason I say solvent based is because of its smell, its extremely strong smelling on the order of thinner, terpintine, alchohol, so I put it in the same category in my mind. Oil based products do not appear to be as potentially damaging. Hope I did not upset the Techonites too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickster Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 I myself use the good old "dilithium crystals" Sorry Scotty. Couldn't resist 2001 STS Mettalic Otter Grey, Black Leather, 213,000 kilometers - miles - ? Still running strong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franey Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 IS THEIR anyone out their that has had a fuel pump fail because of additives, or anyone have their injectors fail because of additives , Anyone ever had a fuel pump fail after adding additives, or had their injectors fail after adding additives. I bet most of us have only replaced a fuel pump after many serviceable miles, same thing for injectors. Now most of the bottles or 8.oz, that you are suppose to pour in a full tank . NOW given most tanks are right at 20 gallons, that would give you a ratio of 320 to 1. Thats pretty well diluted, now since when is gas not hard on plactic or coatings on wires, after day in and day out being dipped in gas. Ever take a teaspoon of gas and put it in a styrofoam cup, not a pretty sight. Now how many of us have had wireing problems in the transmission from cracked or frayed wires, when they have only been bathed in DEXTRON , HOT of course. I wish GM would spend more time trying to come up with a better wireing harness in the transmission, than worry about windings in the fuel pump , that seem to hold up for the life of the pump, no matter wheither you add additives or not. By the way anyone with a late model GM, had to buy a fuel pump lately, well guess what in keeping with the COMP0NENT MENTALITY, which makes it cheaper to make the car, the fuel pump can not be bought seperately anymore, you have to buy the whole assembly , yes that is all of your in tank guage assembly has to be purchased with the pump . THEY are no longer seperate, after market is the same way. Depending on what you drive , be prepared for 500 to 900, for a pump assembly. THAT IS just for the part , no labor . According to my service mgr. their has been so much hell raised over this, that in the future they may go back to the old way. YOU would have thought they would have asked the customer, wheither he wanted to spend 180.00 for a pump or 880.00 for a pump. YOU go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted September 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 For about a month stretch I was using Techron. Approximately 6 bottles in that month. During the next month I started hearing a faint whining sound. Couldn't tell where it was coming from so i just turned the music up a little higher. Two months later the whining sound was much louder and i could tell it was coming from the rear. Took it into the shop after reading some posts on here to verify that it was indeed the fuel pump failing. My mechanic said pretty much the samething Guru has been preaching all along. A bottle of additive once in a blue moon probably won't hurt but it will "hurt" eventually. I'm not sure how regulated the aftermarket and otc products are so i tend to stick with the experts. But like someone said in another string but same discussion, "hey it's your car and it's a free country.... put whatever you want in it." -kg "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 I myself use the good old "dilithium crystals" Sorry Scotty. Couldn't resist They never fail me! It was a sad day for Star Trek fans last month, James Doohan "Scotty" got a Star on the walk of Hollywood. The 84 year old is gravely sick, and he made his last public appearance. I did not realize how much of an accomplished actor he was, here is a quote from the ceremony: Johnny Grant, honorary mayor of Hollywood and chairman of the Walk of Fame Committee, presided over the affair. "We are pleased this morning to honor the man who initially devised the Klingon language," Grant noted. In his speech, Grant recounted some of the highlights of Doohan's life, including his service to the Canadian Royal Artillery during World War II, and the subsequent decade when he shuttled between New York and Canada to perform in 4,000 radio programs, 400 television shows and countless films and plays. "When he migrated to Hollywood, his versatility and talent as a dialectician helped him earn parts in more than 100 motion pictures and TV series," Grant continued, and got a big cheer from the crowd when he noted that in 1966, "he was invited the join the permanent cast of Star Trek." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyG Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Actually, Chevron adds it at levels higher than the mandated EPA amounts. As it turns out, that is all that you really need to keep your engine running as designed. I am going to have a gasoline quality audit, by Chevron, for all the Chevron branded product that I sell on October 5th. If there are any questions that you would like me to ask at that time, I will be happy to do that. Keep in mind that the EPA also limits the high end of the amount of additive a seller can add...you must stay within + or - 10% of the additive target rate. I also sell Marathon, Speedway, Superamerica, BP/Amoco, Exxon/Mobil, and wholesale. Yes, there is a huge difference in the additive (Techron) that goes into the gas that I sell compared to that which you buy OTC. The solvent smell that you get is just that, a carrier oil. You may classify it as a solvent, but that is a little over the top and scarry to some people in this context. Kerosene is a solvent for that matter, if you have ever dissolved asphalt with it. Alcohol is also a solvent. The real question is which manufacturer of OTC additives would use a carrier that would harm fuel pump windings in the recommended amounts - NONE. Once again, the caution is on overdoing it.....and spending money needlessly. Never underestimate the amount of a persons greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted September 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Well this is certainly going in the same direction as previous additive discussions. Consistency is good I guess. Funny little thing about gas. My father used to work (retired) for this large company and his good friend was vp of energy and gas. I thought gases were different but i was corrected. The same fuel truck that stopped at Mobil, Hess, Citgo, Chevron, Shell...... he just went on..... stopped at theirs too. Now that is funny. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Well this is certainly going in the same direction as previous additive discussions. Consistency is good I guess. Funny little thing about gas. My father used to work (retired) for this large company and his good friend was vp of energy and gas. I thought gases were different but i was corrected. The same fuel truck that stopped at Mobil, Hess, Citgo, Chevron, Shell...... he just went on..... stopped at theirs too. Now that is funny. The gasoline is the same but the additive package is different for each gasoline. Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted September 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Well this is certainly going in the same direction as previous additive discussions. Consistency is good I guess. Funny little thing about gas. My father used to work (retired) for this large company and his good friend was vp of energy and gas. I thought gases were different but i was corrected. The same fuel truck that stopped at Mobil, Hess, Citgo, Chevron, Shell...... he just went on..... stopped at theirs too. Now that is funny. The gasoline is the same but the additive package is different for each gasoline. Yeah I said the samething and the response i got was: "Well in one respect... yes... however, when that one tanker makes several stops at different gas stations they ALL get the same additive package." Now that got my attention. "Burns" rubber " I've never considered myself to be all that conservative, but it seems the more liberal some people get the more conservative I become. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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