03 Deville DHS Intermittent Stalling PCM P1106 code

[mike27513]

Hello all,

My 03 DHS Northstar 75K Miles with base NS 4.6 L has developed an odd problem, for me at least.

The car starts,idles and runs fine but now will stall periodically without any warning [at low speed or high speed , last time on the Hwy at 65 MPH]. It will restart easily and run fine after the stall .

The trouble codes are PCM P1106 Hist and IPM B0429 Current.

Some other web sites suggested this is a Manifold Abs. Press. [MAP] sensor problem. Anyone had this same problem/ solutions?

Could it be the Crankshaft Position sensors going bad, or fuel supply problems [although it stalls at low speed and idle also.]

Any help appreciated.

[BodybyFisher]

See this thread it ended up being crank sensors, very similar to your problem

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22171

[mike27513]

See this thread it ended up being crank sensors, very similar to your problem

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22171

Thanks, will also do some basic maintenance in addition to changing the Crank Sensors, new plugs/boots and fuel filter while I'm at it.

Best Regards- Mike27513

[mike27513]

See this thread it ended up being crank sensors, very similar to your problem

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22171

Thanks, will also do some basic maintenance in addition to changing the Crank Sensors, new plugs/boots and fuel filter while I'm at it.

Best Regards- Mike27513

Update On This Problem-

Fault Code did occur on Lower Crankshaft Position Sensor, I have Replaced it and so far so good. no stalling.

Change out was more 'micro-surgery" than expected and took 3 hours to do..

I chose to replace it without removing the oil filter adapter [but took oil filter off] since Oil needed changing.

The 4.6L Crankshaft Pos. Sensors are behind the Front Motor mount above the oil filter adapter/assembly with minimal clearance.

Hints- I learned the hard way.

Red/Orange Connector locks on sensor connector pull straight out from connector

After removing locks. Depress Connector Center Release tab FULLY to unlock connector and pull off.

Had to use a very short handle 1/4 my Ratchet to remove bolt holding sensor.

Thanks to all for the helpful references/procedures .

[Ranger]

Fault Code did occur on Lower Crankshaft Position Sensor, I have Replaced it and so far so good. no stalling.

There are two. Hope you replaced them both.

[mike27513]

Fault Code did occur on Lower Crankshaft Position Sensor, I have Replaced it and so far so good. no stalling.

There are two. Hope you replaced them both.

I Fully Intended to change both and have the Upper Crankshaft Sensor .... But-

These were Late Night Repairs and I needed the car the next day and

I could not get on the Upper Sensor Connector to release no matter how much pressure depressing the release tab.

The little devil would not release regardless.

So if it the fails, I will need to spend another session this time removing the Front motor mount and lowering the engine for clearance to see what is hanging it up or remove the CKP sensor with the connector on.

I will probably need to have another spare connector in case the connector is damaged too badly [which I don't have yet],

I hate to damage the wiring harness needlessly.

Interestingly my DHS was assembled in May03 and I would have thought all the CKP Sensor problems would have been corrected by then.

[The new replacement sensors are the AC-Delco Brand made in Japan from Rock auto]

[mike27513]

Fault Code did occur on Lower Crankshaft Position Sensor, I have Replaced it and so far so good. no stalling.

There are two. Hope you replaced them both.

I Fully Intended to change both and have the Upper Crankshaft Sensor .... But-

These were Late Night Repairs and I needed the car the next day and

I could not get on the Upper Sensor Connector to release no matter how much pressure depressing the release tab.

The little devil would not release regardless.

So if it the fails, I will need to spend another session this time removing the Front motor mount and lowering the engine for clearance to see what is hanging it up or remove the CKP sensor with the connector on.

I will probably need to have another spare connector in case the connector is damaged too badly [which I don't have yet],

I hate to damage the wiring harness needlessly.

Interestingly my DHS was assembled in May03 and I would have thought all the CKP Sensor problems would have been corrected by then.

[The new replacement sensors are the AC-Delco Brand made in Japan from Rock auto]

Another piece of the puzzle , the old Lower Crankshaft Position sensor that threw the code was the original part with the following embossed markings "Mexico" "2559530" and 3076A marked in white ink.

So , I would surmise the defective CKPS were in up to at least Apr. 2003 mfg. Northstars.

In earlier threads , the defective parts were the Mexico made parts and were in the 2000-2002 engines, I would add 2003 engines also.

[OynxSTS]

Ya, Made in Mexico are the original sensors .... YOU MUST replace both.

And yes they were used in some 2003 engines but not all. Though I would have guessed by April they would have had this finally put to bed.

The OBDII Computer actually uses one to test the other. And in reality it is guessing on sensor "A" and "B".... If the other one hasn't failed it soon will.

The problem with the sensor is the solider used in them and after a certain number of heat soak cycles the intermittently fail. This should have been a GM recall IMO.

Get back under the car and fix it this weekend. You will be glad you did.

[Ranger]

Another piece of the puzzle , the old Lower Crankshaft Position sensor that threw the code was the original part with the following embossed markings "Mexico" "2559530" and 3076A marked in white ink.

So , I would surmise the defective CKPS were in up to at least Apr. 2003 mfg. Northstars.

In earlier threads , the defective parts were the Mexico made parts and were in the 2000-2002 engines, I would add 2003 engines also.

Correct. 2000 to early '03's is my understanding.

[mike27513]

Ya, Made in Mexico are the original sensors .... YOU MUST replace both.

And yes they were used in some 2003 engines but not all. Though I would have guessed by April they would have had this finally put to bed.

The OBDII Computer actually uses one to test the other. And in reality it is guessing on sensor "A" and "B".... If the other one hasn't failed it soon will.

The problem with the sensor is the solider used in them and after a certain number of heat soak cycles the intermittently fail. This should have been a GM recall IMO.

Get back under the car and fix it this weekend. You will be glad you did.

To close out this saga-

Replaced the Upper CKP Sensor , to recap the problem earlier with this one was the electrical connector jammed/stuck on the upper CKPS.

I was able to unbolt and remove the upper CPKS with the Connector on.

I snaked the connector and sensor assembly down to where I could see and work on it. I needed to use pliers to depress the release tab and a screwdriver to wedge the connector off at the sensor flange.

Both old sensors were made in Mexico original parts, the new sensors are AC Delco Made in Japan parts.

Hopefully this solves this issue.

Time and Mileage will tell!

[CoupeDTS]

when i changed my 2 on my 2000 I had my dad test them to see if he could see any difference between them. Hes an electronic genius, he used a multimeter and im not sure if he tested the ohms or what but noticed one was reading different than the other. I think I remember him saying one was open and one was closed or one was feeding through a signal and one wasnt. So we pinpointed which one was actually bad but I replaced both anyway.

"Standard" brand sells the japan ones by the way

And they are very easy to get to once the oil filter adapter is out of the way!

[mike27513]

when i changed my 2 on my 2000 I had my dad test them to see if he could see any difference between them. Hes an electronic genius, he used a multimeter and im not sure if he tested the ohms or what but noticed one was reading different than the other. I think I remember him saying one was open and one was closed or one was feeding through a signal and one wasnt. So we pinpointed which one was actually bad but I replaced both anyway.

"Standard" brand sells the japan ones by the way

And they are very easy to get to once the oil filter adapter is out of the way!

Thanks for the Supplier Info on the AC/Delco [made in Japan} CKPS.

.

In my case , I removed both CKPS without removing anything-the Oil filter adapter or front engine mount.

I had the car on jack stands and worked underneath it . Luckily my arms were thin enough to slide in and work above the oil filter adapter assembly.

So it can be done but it is a lot of "blind" manipulation.

Thanks to all who gave me tips and procedures.

[kevinstoddart]

My 2003 DHS has a similar stalling problem. It stalls intermittently and then can be restarted with some difficulty (5+ seconds of cranking). The stall can occur at idle or highway speed and anywhere inbetween. At highway speed recovery is almost immediate (way less than 1 second) but causes quite a jolt to the vehicle as engine power goes to zero and then returns to normal. Usually the stall happens when the coolant temp gauge needle is pointing at ten o'clock on the way up to normal temp pointing straight up. Could this be a temp sensor contact bouncing when telling the computer to switch from open loop to closed loop control? Or a temp sensor contact that is slow to move?

[mike27513]

My 2003 DHS has a similar stalling problem. It stalls intermittently and then can be restarted with some difficulty (5+ seconds of cranking). The stall can occur at idle or highway speed and anywhere inbetween. At highway speed recovery is almost immediate (way less than 1 second) but causes quite a jolt to the vehicle as engine power goes to zero and then returns to normal. Usually the stall happens when the coolant temp gauge needle is pointing at ten o'clock on the way up to normal temp pointing straight up. Could this be a temp sensor contact bouncing when telling the computer to switch from open loop to closed loop control? Or a temp sensor contact that is slow to move?

Hello ,

While it is possible it is temp. sensor related, it may be the Crankshaft Position sensors [CKPS]that seem to be a common failure on 2000-3 Northstar Devilles. Eventually my Engine Computer gave a defective CKPS code after a couple of months of intermittant stalls.

In my case I verified that the CKPS were from a defective Mexico based mfg lot. I replaced them with new GM AC Delco CKPS [Made in Japan] and have not had the problem re-occur.

The above thread is my experience, if you are a "shadetree" mechanic you should be able to do the repair yourself. The Caddy Dealer will charge 200-300 for the repair.

[kevinstoddart]

My 2003 DHS has a similar stalling problem. It stalls intermittently and then can be restarted with some difficulty (5+ seconds of cranking). The stall can occur at idle or highway speed and anywhere inbetween. At highway speed recovery is almost immediate (way less than 1 second) but causes quite a jolt to the vehicle as engine power goes to zero and then returns to normal. Usually the stall happens when the coolant temp gauge needle is pointing at ten o'clock on the way up to normal temp pointing straight up. Could this be a temp sensor contact bouncing when telling the computer to switch from open loop to closed loop control? Or a temp sensor contact that is slow to move?

Hello ,

While it is possible it is temp. sensor related, it may be the Crankshaft Position sensors [CKPS]that seem to be a common failure on 2000-3 Northstar Devilles. Eventually my Engine Computer gave a defective CKPS code after a couple of months of intermittant stalls.

In my case I verified that the CKPS were from a defective Mexico based mfg lot. I replaced them with new GM AC Delco CKPS [Made in Japan] and have not had the problem re-occur.

The above thread is my experience, if you are a "shadetree" mechanic you should be able to do the repair yourself. The Caddy Dealer will charge 200-300 for the repair.

Thanks for the tip. I will look for some codes.

[BodybyFisher]

Glad to see you did a search Kevins, good for you, I posted to your other thread