lacseville Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I hope everybody hasn't gone out for the evening! I got to crank my new motor for the first time tonight!! I was soooo happy that it turned over, however it did not fire up. I heard sporatic thumps from the exhaust that made me think that it wanted to. a little help here please guys... i'm thinking maybe timing??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacseville Posted June 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 don't know if the tps matters, but with the ignition of, car off (obviously), i temporarily set it to 11.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 If it sounds like it's trying to fire but won't, I would suspect timing, but don't overlook the fuel supply. How did you time it? Will it start with a healthy dose of ether? Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacseville Posted June 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 well, the engine never speeds up like it's catching on, but exhaust thumps. i poured some gas down the throat and nothing. fuel rail has lotsa pressure at it. i put a new dist in, so I stuck a screwdriver in the spark plug hole and turned the engine over until no 1 cyl was at the top and then placed the timing mark on 0. turned to dist to 45 deg off parallel center or whatever. i followed the shop manual instructions very carefully! when i was in diagnostics, it said the timing was at 11. does that mean i did something right? tps position wouldn't keep it from starting would it? thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 4.9 er? I think the real setting is -10 BTDC. There is a set timing mode on the '92 and newer cars. Also, the balancer rings can slip. A bad balancer can give a wrong timing mark. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaddyDaddy Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 The timing you are seeing in the diagnostic mode is what the computer is telling the distributor how much to advance in a given amount of degrees. Its not the actual setting that the distributor is at. I'm kind of thinking that you have the distributer out of time, but maybe not. I would double check all the wiring to the distributor make sure it is plugged in (and in the right place) there is a single red wire that goes in the distributor cap and if this is unlplugged you won't have any spark. Also there is two plugs that the red wire can plug into on the distributor cap. One is for a tach which is unused (this could be what you have it plugged into) and the other is a battery hook up. This is where you need to plug that wire in. I had put new lifters, pushrods, and rocker arms in mine and had the same problem. No start. Then I noticed that this wire was unplugged. Plugged it in and it fired right up. I would try that then if you still have a problem with it starting. I would think you have the distributor turned way to far one way or the other. I'm guessing you pulled the distributor out when you rebuilt the motor. If you don't make a mark on the distributor itself along with where the rotor was pointing this will make it a pain to get in time. Hopefully this will help you out. Let us know if you get it running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonA Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I would set the distributor in where the rotor is just before the #1 terminal when the engine is at TDC. That would be approximately 0* BTDC. That's not the correct timing, but it will be close. Have a friend crank the engine over and turn the distributor slowly in the advance direction until the engine fires. From here, you'll be close to correct...set your final time with a timing light. But Logan is right -- the timing mark on the balancer may not necessarily be correct, unless you put a new balancer on there; then it should be okay. Jason(2001 STS, White Diamond) "When you turn your car on...does it return the favor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacseville Posted June 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 thanks a lot you guys... the red (pink) wire is plugged in correctly and all the wires are plugged in. the motor came with a harmonic damper (same thing as balancer?). yes, i took the dist out and didn't mark it. (silly) when i put it back in, i put it between the #1 and #8 terminal and engine at 0*. i might be really close... from cranking a bit, then engine wouldn't be flooded? that's an old carb thing, right? oh man... i made all my msd plug wires last night and they don't much slack in them at all! i hope i don't have to buy another set! i'll just go back to old stock ones temporarily! i'll let you guys know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaddyDaddy Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 aparently you have the distributors rotor on the wrong tooth. I don't know if you'll be able to turn the distributor enough to get it in time. You might have to pull out and turn the rotor then reinstall it. I would get cyclinder #1 top dead center then make sure all the spark plug wires are installed in the correct firing order on the distributor. Then locate the number 1 spark plug wire and pull the distributor cap off and see if the rotor is pointing directly at the number 1 spark plug terminal on the cap. If not the pull the distributor out and turn the rotor so it points to the #1 spark plug terminal. Remember that when you slide the distributor back into the motor the rotor is going to turn so make sure that when you get the dist. slid into place that it is still pointing at the # 1 spark pug terminal on the dist. cap and that should do it. At least I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacseville Posted June 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 with the engine in, i can't stick a screw driver in it to tell when #1 cyl is at tdc... what's the best way to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaddyDaddy Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Well if you believe that your reference mark on the harmonic balancer is correct (which I assume it would be) I would just crack the engine by hand (which can be a pain) Until the mark on the harmonic balancer lines up with the 0 notch or mark on the water pump housing then your cylinder # 1 is at top dead center. Then line up the rotor with the #1 spark plug terminial on the distributor cap. That should put your timing around 0 degrees top dead center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 What I have done is take the valve cover off, and see when the both valves are closed with no pressure on the lifters and the piston is UP, the distributor should be pointing at number 1 for static timing and when the engine is started you can fine tune from there, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 By the way did you have the timing chain off? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Hmmm.....another idea now that you mention spark plug wires. Hopefully you did not do 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 as a firing order. It happens..... Or....your #1 plug wire may be off one tower....that would make all the wires one tower off. Logan Diagnostic LLC www.airbagcrash.com www.logandieselusa.com www.ledfix.com www.ledfix.com/yukontaillightrepair.html www.ledfix.com/ledreplacements.html www.ledfix.com/j42385toolrental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacseville Posted June 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 it runs!!! hallelujah!!!! (sp?) turns out the timing was off 180*. i haven't set the timing yet, but i turned the dist until it ran well and then hopped in it and revved it to 1500-2000 for 5 mins. just enough time for the t-stat to open... i'm waiting for it to cool, then i'm going to put some more coolant in it, and run it about 2000 for another 5 mins. set timing, check fluids and drive it! (with the hood off of course!) what am i missing? thank you guys for all your suggestion! You're the greatest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaddyDaddy Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I figured you had the timing way off. I bet next time you'll remember to mark the location of the rotor and distributor on the motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I figured you had the timing way off. I bet next time you'll remember to mark the location of the rotor and distributor on the motor Good practice! Anytime I remove the distributor I bring it to TDC and mark the distributor in multiple places with paint. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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