Transaxle Half Shaft Seal Leak

[sschnelle]

I orignally posted this as a reply to an earlier post "Transmission Leak, Leaks Backing Up Turning Left", but relalized that it may not get much attention, so I thought I'd repost as a new thread.

I purchased a 2004 Deville with 68K miles that was doing basically the same thing as OnyxSTS's vehicle. I replaced the axle seal, but have found that when it is cold, and I really crank it, I still get a few drips (The old seal left oil puddles and stripes, and dropped the trans level, so its much better with the new one). When its warm, not a drop! The CV Hub seems to have a lot of play, compared to the right side.

My questions are: Has anyone else experienced this? Is this typical? Does the bearing in the trans need to be replaced, to totally stop it? Is it going to grenade if I let it go?

I want to take it across the US on vacation for the next two weeks and am trying to figure out if it will be OK.

[BodybyFisher]

There is an axle support bushing in the transaxle that could be bad. Since you replaced the seal, its obviously something else. If that bushing is badly worn, it may allow your axle to move/shift causing the leak. Who did the axle seal, did they see evidence of a bad bushing on the axle?

See this link:

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?sho...191&hl=axle

[sschnelle]

I replaced the seal myself. Everthing looks good. Only a shiney ring on the axle stub where the seal rides. I couldn't see anything abnormal looking into the transaxle either.

The only thing I see is that the fit seems to be too sloppy, but I don't notice any vibrations going down the road.

I played with it this morning after setting all night. I didn't get any drips until probably the 10th manuver, and then just 8 to 10 drops. Drove it into work and tried it, no leaks.

I'm kind of thinking that it will be good enough.

Thanks for the info!

[BodybyFisher]

It sounds to me like your axle support bushing could be worn out of spec.. allowing your axle to flop/move too much..

Maybe Logan will see this and comment based on his experience..

Mike

[OynxSTS]

Body by Fisher... a sage and wise contributor to this board asked me to re-post my tranny horror story here:

My seal solved my problem for about 2 months and then it started again...and got worse... I took the car in to a trusted transmission shop fearing that I had split the case... I discovered that I had smashed/split/fubared/etc the "Driven gear bearing assembly" This bearing has two functions:

1) it controls the big chain that runs from the torque converted to the transmission proper and

2) it provides a bearing surface and support for the output shaft of that side of the transaxle...

You can easily test if this is your problem... with the car on axle jacks grab the half shaft as close to the transaxle as you can and see how much "up and down" play it has... there shouldn't be any... any play over 1/8" and like me, you smashed this bearing...

If you catch it quick, you can save the transmission and most of the "hard" parts... I drove mine like this for almost 9 months and by the time I took it in the bearing was almost completely "eaten through" and output shaft was all scored and the pan was full of "shrapnel". If this assembly completely splits, the transmission will fail and you will be stranded somewhere.

Of course I have no-one to blame for this as I tend(ed) to drive the snot out of the poor car... One too many sophomoric burnouts, neutral drops, forced hard shifts, etc... Since getting the bill for this I have toned things down considerably and my wife has been commenting that she likes driving with me a lot more now... but my kids still yell "come on dad giv'er all 300"

When the transmission shop owner gave me back my keys he did share with me that the 4T80E is one of the strongest FWD transmissions ever made and he wished me good luck at the Indy 500...

The bad news is to fix this you need to re&re the transmission which is not really a DIY job as the transaxle weighs almost 300 lb and you need a special fixture to hold up the engine while you drop the tranny out the bottom of the car....

Most shops and dealerships will quote you 9 hours of labor to re&re the tranny, plus the hard parts, plus fluid, etc.

Any bill less than $2000 for this problem is a good deal...

I'll add here that another sign of this condition is that in certain high load and high speed conditions the drive line will produce a vibration that feels a lot like the warning strip on the side of the highway... Unlike the 65-75 vibration this one almost instantly goes away when you let off of the gas. It took my car almost 6 months to do that from the time the leak started... However, once this starts... you are probably starting to damage the output shaft... and the dollars are going to pile up fast... $$$$

[BodybyFisher]

Thanks Greg, does this appear similar to your problem? Mike

[sschnelle]

Thanks Greg, does this appear similar to your problem? Mike

[/quote

Fits it to a tee. I had a feeling that this was going to end up this way, but was hoping that someone would come along and say "That's just the way they are".

I have two AWD Astro Vans, and have always thought the front drive hubs are too sloppy since day one, but they have never leaked a drop. One has 140K and the other 225K miles.

I took the car back to the lot I bought it from tonight. They are going to have their mechanic look at it tomorrow. The car is still under its 30 day warranty. Unfortunately, its a 50/50 warranty.

I'm into the car right, so the money doesn't bother me as much as the fact that I most likely won't have the car for our vacation trip.

I typically like doing my own wrench work and have done some transmission rebuilds. Depending on what they come back with, I may decide to do it myself. But I really don't have the time right now.

Greg and Mike, thanks for all your help! Steve

[BodybyFisher]

Good Luck with this. Thank heavens you have a 50/50 at least. BE SURE a GOOD mechanic works on it.. Print GREG's terrific info and take it with you or fax it to them... I think GREG stated that it could be done for $2000. Keep us posted, we are interested in the outcome, Mike

[The Fred]

Be careful of a 50/50 from a dealer

Those are great for them because most of the time they can make alot of money even at half price on the repair..

so they make it a bad one

Then you're so thankful wow they're paying for half of this huge repair

Etc

[Logan]

If it is not shaking....leave it alone. A couple of drips you can live with.

To replace the bushing. You actually have to replace the transmission differential. Big job....see pic.

[sschnelle]

Sorry it took so long for me to let you all know how this turned out.

Well, I didn't take the Deville on vacation; I put another 4500 miles on my '99 Astro (Now @ 145,000). Everything went well, although I lamented not having the “ride” for a lot of the trip.

Before I left, I talked to the car dealer’s mechanic (on the phone) and used the info I received from the forum (faxed it to him). He said that it sounded that you hit it on the button and recommended that I not take it on vacation, but let him fix it. He sounded as though he was a good guy, has been a mechanic for 35+ years and had his own transmission business for a number of years. He said he had never run into one with this problem but said that the most common problem he is aware of is speed sensor failures. He said he would go completely through it and see how it looked. If he only had to fix the bushing and replace the speed sensor it would be $1300-$1500. If he had to rebuild it, it would be $2000+, but he’d call first. He also told me I’d get a 6 month warranty on his work if he replaced parts and a 12 month if he had to rebuild it. No mileage limits.

I’d googled his name and his business history checked out. Feeling comfortable I told him to fix it.

The result was to fix the seal leak, he replaced the 3rd gear drive shell with bushing and output shaft. His concern was what made the bushing fail? Maybe it was a defective bushing. But maybe it was a problem with the drive shell and/or shaft which the bushing rides between.

He also replaced the speed sensor and 4th gear band. He said everything else looked good, showed me all the parts and explained what he had done. He also told me that if I had to pay the full bill, he would have tried to make a call on the shell and shaft, but since the dealer was paying half, he didn’t want to take the chance.

My cost was $750, I’ve put 2500 miles on it and I’m happy. Drives great, shifts great, no leaks.

Thanks for everyone’s help!