Coolant loss

[BodybyFisher]

You just had a water pump go bad. Hopefully your mechanic put the cooling supplement in at that time.

This slipped by me when I replaced the water pump - I passed on it actually - what are these tabs and what do they do? I've never put anything in the cooling system but I recall that these tabs are GM recommmended. Can I put them in now (1,000 miles after the fluid change)? They go in the top radiator hose right?

What the heck do they do?

Thanks!

Yes crush them and put them into the top radiator hose not the tank. Do it ASAP.. here is a photo of the supplement, Mike

[justgreat]

hmmm...it sounds like there might be a problem with air in the system. i seem to recall that after filling the system, you start the engine let it run and reach opt temp and then close it up with the radiator cap. it never mentions having the climate control system on which was always part of the drain/flush and fill routine on the older cars.

maybe the mechanic didn't bleed off the system after the fill.

jackg 90seville 100k

[Marika]

You just had a water pump go bad. Hopefully your mechanic put the cooling supplement in at that time.

This is not a high mileage car if I recall. I would dose it with six tablets and see what happens but it does not sound good. Do a search under Ed Fenwick, he had a head gasket go on his 4.9 and it was not re-pairable as the shop did not want to timesert if I recall. If you are showing combustion gases in the coolant that is not good.

76,210 miles on the car as of today. I've never had an engine with this mileage act up doing THIS. I'm taking it for a second opinion at a different mechanic on Thursday. They will thoroughly test everything and let me know what they find.

By the way, where does the brake system draw it's power from on this 92 Seville with the 4.9 engine? Can anyone describe this to me? I'm curious about something.

[Ranger]

Mike,

She has a 4.9 so the tabs can go directly into the radiator.

Marika,

I hate to be the one to say it but I see head gasket written all over this. I hope I am wrong. Bubbles in the radiator is a dead give a way. Loss of heat is because exhaust gasses (bubbles in the radiator) are finding their way to the heater core. Air in the heater core will not transfer heat. Sealant tabs won't help at this point.

Now I can't recall if the 4.9 has an aluminum block & cast iron heads or vice versa. Cast block, obviously would not need to be Timserted. If the oposite is true, it may be able to be Timserted in the car. I don't recall too many threads about 4.9 head gaskets so maybe some one else can answer the questions I pose.

Putting a junk yard engine in it is trading the devil you know for the devil you don't. That's a tough choice and I don't know which way I would go, but for $400 it would be tempting. Best of luck.

[BodybyFisher]

Mike,

She has a 4.9 so the tabs can go directly into the radiator.

Marika,

I hate to be the one to say it but I see head gasket written all over this. I hope I am wrong. Bubbles in the radiator is a dead give a way. Loss of heat is because exhaust gasses (bubbles in the radiator) are finding their way to the heater core. Air in the heater core will not transfer heat. Sealant tabs won't help at this point.

Now I can't recall if the 4.9 has an aluminum block & cast iron heads or vice versa. Cast block, obviously would not need to be Timserted. If the oposite is true, it may be able to be Timserted in the car. I don't recall too many threads about 4.9 head gaskets so maybe some one else can answer the questions I pose.

Putting a junk yard engine in it is trading the devil you know for the devil you don't. That's a tough choice and I don't know which way I would go, but for $400 it would be tempting. Best of luck.

Ranger, if you look back I was speaking to Spurlee about the upper hose, Mike

[Ranger]

Mike,

She has a 4.9 so the tabs can go directly into the radiator.

Marika,

I hate to be the one to say it but I see head gasket written all over this. I hope I am wrong. Bubbles in the radiator is a dead give a way. Loss of heat is because exhaust gasses (bubbles in the radiator) are finding their way to the heater core. Air in the heater core will not transfer heat. Sealant tabs won't help at this point.

Now I can't recall if the 4.9 has an aluminum block & cast iron heads or vice versa. Cast block, obviously would not need to be Timserted. If the oposite is true, it may be able to be Timserted in the car. I don't recall too many threads about 4.9 head gaskets so maybe some one else can answer the questions I pose.

Putting a junk yard engine in it is trading the devil you know for the devil you don't. That's a tough choice and I don't know which way I would go, but for $400 it would be tempting. Best of luck.

Ranger, if you look back I was speaking to Spurlee about the upper hose, Mike

Sorry Mike. I thought you where responding to Marika.

[mhinchley]

You just had a water pump go bad. Hopefully your mechanic put the cooling supplement in at that time.

This is not a high mileage car if I recall. I would dose it with six tablets and see what happens but it does not sound good. Do a search under Ed Fenwick, he had a head gasket go on his 4.9 and it was not re-pairable as the shop did not want to timesert if I recall. If you are showing combustion gases in the coolant that is not good.

That's what the shop told me as well. It's too expensive to timesert the engine etc. and there ends up being no guarantees. They told me a rebuilt engine is $5,500 and comes with a 3 year, 75,000 mile warranty. I don't know what the heck to do at this point. I've put so much money into this car I can't get rid of it at this point. Maybe I'll take it over to Richter's tomorrow and see what they say. Get a second opinion.

Maika,

Unfortunately, it does sound like a head gasket to me. $5500??? I hope that includes labor and then some. Because you can get a remanufactured cheaper then that.....around $2k or so. In all cases, I would first drain the oil and look for "milk". Does not always show up on dipstick.

[Marika]

You just had a water pump go bad. Hopefully your mechanic put the cooling supplement in at that time.

This is not a high mileage car if I recall. I would dose it with six tablets and see what happens but it does not sound good. Do a search under Ed Fenwick, he had a head gasket go on his 4.9 and it was not re-pairable as the shop did not want to timesert if I recall. If you are showing combustion gases in the coolant that is not good.

That's what the shop told me as well. It's too expensive to timesert the engine etc. and there ends up being no guarantees. They told me a rebuilt engine is $5,500 and comes with a 3 year, 75,000 mile warranty. I don't know what the heck to do at this point. I've put so much money into this car I can't get rid of it at this point. Maybe I'll take it over to Richter's tomorrow and see what they say. Get a second opinion.

Maika,

Unfortunately, it does sound like a head gasket to me. $5500??? I hope that includes labor and then some. Because you can get a remanufactured cheaper then that.....around $2k or so. In all cases, I would first drain the oil and look for "milk". Does not always show up on dipstick.

the mechanic quoted me $5,500 for a remanufactured engine which has a 3 year, 75,000 mile warranty. I think the engine probably costs $2,000 or so and the mechanic is just adding on a fee for his profits. Alas, I'll find out tomorrow what's the story with this engine and work from there.

You just had a water pump go bad. Hopefully your mechanic put the cooling supplement in at that time.

This is not a high mileage car if I recall. I would dose it with six tablets and see what happens but it does not sound good. Do a search under Ed Fenwick, he had a head gasket go on his 4.9 and it was not re-pairable as the shop did not want to timesert if I recall. If you are showing combustion gases in the coolant that is not good.

That's what the shop told me as well. It's too expensive to timesert the engine etc. and there ends up being no guarantees. They told me a rebuilt engine is $5,500 and comes with a 3 year, 75,000 mile warranty. I don't know what the heck to do at this point. I've put so much money into this car I can't get rid of it at this point. Maybe I'll take it over to Richter's tomorrow and see what they say. Get a second opinion.

Maika,

Unfortunately, it does sound like a head gasket to me. $5500??? I hope that includes labor and then some. Because you can get a remanufactured cheaper then that.....around $2k or so. In all cases, I would first drain the oil and look for "milk". Does not always show up on dipstick.

the mechanic quoted me $5,500 for a remanufactured engine which has a 3 year, 75,000 mile warranty. I think the engine probably costs $2,000 or so and the mechanic is just adding on a fee for his profits. Alas, I'll find out tomorrow what's the story with this engine and work from there.

I had the car out this morning for a drive, it behaved perfectly normal and I drove around for over 1 hour, stop and go traffic, and cruising on the highway as well. Nothing happened out of the ordinary. This is making me nutzzzzzzzzz....LOL!! The highest the temperature gauge went was 212F. Stayed around 196F and had a low of 190F.

[BodybyFisher]

That is a good sign. I would check the cap, coolant concentration and coolant level. That you lose heat when she overheated indicates low coolant.

[adallak]

Perfect! Head gasket problem would progress resulting in overheating. I would leave all the mechanics and stealerships alone for a while and just keep an eye on it.

[Marika]

Perfect! Head gasket problem would progress resulting in overheating. I would leave all the mechanics and stealerships alone for a while and just keep an eye on it.

I just drove all the way to work (combination highway driving and "stuck in traffic" local driving) to deliver a cake for a surprise party for one of the neighbors on the floor where I work, and then I drove all the way home again doing highway and local traffic. No problems except that the security guard at the office said he smelled antifreeze "BIG TIME". There's NONE on the ground. Something is leaking somewhere and it's not going inside the engine because there NO steam or ANY odors coming from the exhaust. I wonder if it's the radiator or the side tanks.

Again, the car performed flawlessly to and from work, top temperature was 212F with an average holding of 194~196F. Idling in the building garage, temp went to 212F and then I heard the fan come on, but it didn't sound like it usually does. Sounded a bit "wimpy" so I'll point that out to the mechanic tomorrow as well though he told me over the phone, "we test everything". I even punched the overdrive a few times on the highway (no cops around) speedometer went from 55 to 75 in the blink of an eye, RPM's went from about 1,800 to about 3,000 and then back to about 2,000 and temp went from 196F to 203F and then back down again in about 20 seconds.

I'm going to let the second opinion mechanic go over the car with a fine tooth comb. His mission impossible assignment, should he accept it, is to FIND THAT LEAK...

[adallak]

Most likely loose hose clamps or a cracked heater valve (the T) or radiator end tanks. pay also attention to a cooling pipe by the serp. belt (see the blue arrows in th epicture). I believe there is nothing major. You can easily double the mileage of your Cadillac.

[Marika]

Most likely loose hose clamps or a cracked heater valve (the T) or radiator end tanks. pay also attention to a cooling pipe by the serp. belt (see the blue arrows in th epicture). I believe there is nothing major. You can easily double the mileage of your Cadillac.

I hope you're right. I can't believe that something is wrong with this engine. The 4.9 was considered a highly reliable engine. I don't mind paying for it to be fixed, but I want it done right the first time and not having to run back and forth from the mechanic every few days.

[BodybyFisher]

I have seen them put dye in the cooling system also and look at it with an UV light also. But once they pressurize the system the leak should surface. If you are smelling coolant it should be obvious on a lift. If you are smelling coolant, and not seeing it, its leaking under pressure. Could be the side tanks, intake manifold gaskets, pipe, water pump gasket and even the head gasket leaking externally or a crack.

Put your NOSE down along side each side of your radiator when its hot, and see if you smell coolant there.

I did a search and came up with this, its very similar, I actually thought to myself, I wonder if she could have gotten a bad stat?:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread....75611amp;page=5

Here is another good article by Larry Carley:

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us50230.htm

[Marika]

I have seen them put dye in the cooling system also and look at it with an UV light also. But once they pressurize the system the leak should surface. If you are smelling coolant it should be obvious on a lift. If you are smelling coolant, and not seeing it, its leaking under pressure. Could be the side tanks, intake manifold gaskets, pipe, water pump gasket and even the head gasket leaking externally or a crack.

Put your NOSE down along side each side of your radiator when its hot, and see if you smell coolant there.

I did a search and came up with this, its very similar, I actually thought to myself, I wonder if she could have gotten a bad stat?:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread....75611amp;page=5

Here is another good article by Larry Carley:

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us50230.htm

Well, there's nothing in the oil, checked the dip stick and the oil is as clean as 1 and 1/2 month old oil should be. Smelled like and looked like oil with nothing else in it.

Could be the radiator the car is certainly old enough and since the previous owner had no maintenance records for the car, I have to assume the radiator is shot to $hit by now. Let the mechanic look at it tomorrow and let me know what's what.

[Spurlee]

Well, mine ended up being a crack at the upper neck of the radiator - only leaks under pressure, and not always then. I was gong to drive the thing to Louisville (700 mile round trip) tomorrow but thankfully she spit a cup in the garage this afternoon and I had the opportunity to pressure test.

Rock Auto says $160 for the radiator and about $13 each for the hoses. (Autozone was $100 more...)

I was getting my summer Corvette out anyway, so I'll take my time and do the job over the summer.

I'll bet there's a thread here on replacing the radiator on 1996 vintage Eldo's.

Good luck to others' with troubles! Keep thinking positive...

[Ranger]

Marika,

Did the shop pressurize the cooling system and do a cylinder pressure test? Those two tests should be able to locate the leak. The cylinder pressure test will definately confirm or rule out the head gasket. If ruled out, the cooling system test should locate it. Maybe you need a new shop. How much are they charging you and exactly what tests did they do?

[Marika]

Marika,

Did the shop pressurize the cooling system and do a cylinder pressure test? Those two tests should be able to locate the leak. The cylinder pressure test will definately confirm or rule out the head gasket. If ruled out, the cooling system test should locate it. Maybe you need a new shop. How much are they charging you and exactly what tests did they do?

The shop claims to have pressure tested the system from the radiator but they claim no leaks were found. Other than using the engine compression test which turns a liquid from blue to yellow in less than one minute when it detects exhaust gases in antifreeze, they didn't do any other tests. I need a new shop.

[Ranger]

Yeah, I'd say so. If you are smelling coolant, there is an external leak unless it is coming from the overflow. An external leak does not eliminate a head gasket but sure does lessen the probability.

[Jan Olsson]

Marika, just a thought. Do you smell coolant inside the car? Perhaps a leaking heater core or hoses/clamps in that region? No wet floor carpets?

[Marika]

Marika, just a thought. Do you smell coolant inside the car? Perhaps a leaking heater core or hoses/clamps in that region? No wet floor carpets?

I've checked at the passenger side, the carpeting is dry.

[Marika]

OK. I just dropped off the car at the "second opinion" mechanic. Everyone say a pray for the old greyhound and hope that it's nothing too serious.

By the way, driving there, no problems either.

They gave me a Toyota Camry loaner car. Oh Gosh!! I felt so vulnerable and terrified in that thing while I was driving home.

One thing that the second opinion mechanic told me that no one else has ever said is that the 4.9 engine is a lemon, and that it's essentially a 4100, only larger. Oh dear. Well, I only authorized his work up to $250 so that would only diagnose the problem and not go beyond that. When I find out what's wrong, I'll take it from there. I'll have to borrow money to get it fixed.

[Ranger]

Well, the 4.9 is a variant of the 4.1, but I would not go as far as calling it a lemon. Infact quite the opposite. It is a very reliable engine. The fact that he calles it a lemon makes me question his knowledge. Just for fun, press him on it and ask him specifically what it is that makes the 4.9 a lemon. I would be very interested in his answer.

[adallak]

OK. I just dropped off the car at the "second opinion" mechanic. Everyone say a pray for the old greyhound and hope that it's nothing too serious.

By the way, driving there, no problems either.

They gave me a Toyota Camry loaner car. Oh Gosh!! I felt so vulnerable and terrified in that thing while I was driving home.

One thing that the second opinion mechanic told me that no one else has ever said is that the 4.9 engine is a lemon, and that it's essentially a 4100, only larger. Oh dear. Well, I only authorized his work up to $250 so that would only diagnose the problem and not go beyond that. When I find out what's wrong, I'll take it from there. I'll have to borrow money to get it fixed.

That mechanic is essentially a lemon, only larger. 4.9 is a great engine.

[BodybyFisher]

I disagree, the 4.1 was the prototype of the 4.9 and yes it did have problems as the computer systems were not as modern and reliable. The 4.1 was an aluminum block with cast iron heads and developed little horsepower.

As a matter of fact the 4.1 is listed as one of the worst engines of all time:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0408phr_worst/

The 4.9 is a work horse. Don't listen to mechanics assinine statements, mechanics can be some of the most opinionated people in the world. Just tell him to fix the SOB..