Bruce Nunnally

Mailbag: A/C on causes Overheating

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20 hours ago, Chris Deville said:

It just needed the pellets or some sealent in it and now no over heating i did not know that the northstar needed these pellets once u remove all the water or fluse the engine and it say it under the hood dont know why i kept over looking it had them just never thought to use them but i just dropped 2 in and like not even half a bottle of some block seal in it no more problems for now and it had passed all the test when we did them but thanks i really appreciate the help your time and help thanks again and i might be back got 4 more that i got to fix lol

1. Tablets are NOT for fixing leaks and we DO NOT recommend sealers.  You obviously have a pressure leak that is why your overheating issue improved but you fixed NOTHING.  The pellets are NOT required, they are ONLY used for casting/crossover seal nuisance leaks as sort of a final bandaid, NOT to repair leaks.  If you don't use the cooling supplement tablets the engine with a sound cooling system will not overheat, period.  If you have a pressure leak, pressurize the cooling system, find the leak and fix it.  I have even used dye with UV light, pressurized the cooling system and found a leaking crossover seal and sweating heater pipe.

2. If you put tablets or sealer in the tank, you risk clogging the purge line and bolt with a hole in it, preventing air from getting out of the system.  NEVER put tablets or sealer in the tank.  The tablets are to be crushed and poured into the upper radiator hose.

3. NEVER FLUSH a Northstar, you introduce minerals into the engine that cause scale promoting corrosion and introduce straight water into the engine that can not be drained out making balancing the cooling system to 50/50 much more difficult if not impossible.  In addition, it is NEVER good to run cold water through a hot aluminum engine. Mix coolant with distilled water ONLY!  NEVER FLUSH!

Your main problem seemed to be a bad cap and probably a less than 50/50 mix of coolant.  And it appears you STILL have pressure leaks, DO NOT take this car on a long trip till the leak is found.

@Chris Deville


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Anyone who reviews this thread going forward, find other threads to help you with your overheating problem, start a new thread or contact me directly, this thread is NOT a good example of how to pursue or solve an overheating problem, we have plenty of threads detailing the proper steps.  


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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On 8/29/2018 at 12:39 PM, BodybyFisher said:

1. Tablets are NOT for fixing leaks and we DO NOT recommend sealers.  You obviously have a pressure leak that is why your overheating issue improved but you fixed NOTHING.  The pellets are NOT required, they are ONLY used for casting/crossover seal nuisance leaks as sort of a final bandaid, NOT to repair leaks.  If you don't use the cooling supplement tablets the engine with a sound cooling system will not overheat, period.  If you have a pressure leak, pressurize the cooling system, find the leak and fix it.  I have even used dye with UV light, pressurized the cooling system and found a leaking crossover seal and sweating heater pipe.

2. If you put tablets or sealer in the tank, you risk clogging the purge line and bolt with a hole in it, preventing air from getting out of the system.  NEVER put tablets or sealer in the tank.  The tablets are to be crushed and poured into the upper radiator hose.

3. NEVER FLUSH a Northstar, you introduce minerals into the engine that cause scale promoting corrosion and introduce straight water into the engine that can not be drained out making balancing the cooling system to 50/50 much more difficult if not impossible.  In addition, it is NEVER good to run cold water through a hot aluminum engine. Mix coolant with distilled water ONLY!  NEVER FLUSH!

Your main problem seemed to be a bad cap and probably a less than 50/50 mix of coolant.  And it appears you STILL have pressure leaks, DO NOT take this car on a long trip till the leak is found.

@Chris Deville

Guess ill try the dye and UV light just like u said that wasnt the problem it ant ran pass half way since the other day nd today it went up one and thanks again

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Try to find or rent a cooling system pressure tester, pump up the system to 16 to 18 psi and see if it holds and watch for leaks.

The Northstar can leak from the following points

Coolant tank, cracks

Radiator end tanks, or aluminum veins

Crossover seals

Heater pipes behind the engine

Water pump seal

Water pump body seal

Thermostat seal

Hoses and clamps

Cap releases at less than rated PSI

Heater core

Under pressure, coolant will vaporize when it hits atmosphere, you won't always see leaks you will smell leaks

If the cooling system does not hold pressure the coolant will boil at a lower temperature, it must hold pressure.

Adding coolant to the water raises the boiling point at a given pressure, the minimum concentration is 50% coolant and 50% distilled water you can go up to 60% for added freezing and cooling protection.  Buy a cheap hydrometer to check the concentration.  

A thermostat must be used not left out as some think, it is best to use an AC Delco stat as it is calibrated for your engine.  A thermostat can bind and cause high temps or overhearing.

Check purge line for free flow

Check the radiator for clogs and free flowing.  You might find a radiator shop that could flush it out and check flow.

Be sure there are no restrictions preventing air flow through the radiator like dirt, leaves, tar paper,  etc.

Check the water pump belt for slipping and cracking.  Be sure the tensioner isn't binding and that it applies full tension to the belt.

Check the cooling fan operation.  With key off grab each fan and check for bearing play or binding.  With AC on cooling fans should be running with engine running.

Finally, if all of this doesnt solve the problem buy the Balkamp block tester from NAPA online and test the coolant for combustion by products indicating that the head gasket is breached 

@Chris Deville


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Here is the tester you need. @Chris Deville

-34°F is the 50/50 concentration point

 

20180901_144733.jpg


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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20180831_152929.jpg.0cd27836114fc46328df48905e5471b3.jpgdid the test again and this time it did turn from blue to a light yellow what all do i need to re do the headgasket this my first time working on a northstar engine

 

On 9/3/2018 at 10:42 AM, BodybyFisher said:

Here is the tester you need. @Chris Deville

-34°F is the 50/50 concentration point

 

20180901_144733.jpg

 

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That is bad news and evidence of a bad head gasket.  I am sorry.

This is a very very big job requiring special tooling and experience.  This out of 5 is a 5 difficulty job I hate to say.  This is not a job to attempt unless you are comfortable with removing the engine, drilling and tapping with timeserts, norms or northstar performance tooling, torquing bolts using torque and angle, timing 32 valve engine, etc.  This is not like doing a head gasket on a cast iron engine.  The job really can't be done easily with the engine in place.

You could also find someone to repair the engine correctly.

I am sorry, let us know how you want to proceed.


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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7 minutes ago, BodybyFisher said:

That is bad news and evidence of a bad head gasket.  I am sorry.

This is a very very big job requiring special tooling and experience.  This out of 5 is a 5 difficulty job I hate to say.  This is not a job to attempt unless you are comfortable with removing the engine, drilling and tapping with timeserts, norms or northstar performance tooling, torquing bolts using torque and angle, timing 32 valve engine, etc.  This is not like doing a head gasket on a cast iron engine.  The job really can't be done easily with the engine in place.

You could also find someone to repair the engine correctly.

I am sorry, let us know how you want to proceed.

I know its not goin to be like them engine but im sure i can get it done just want to make sure i get the right stuff and all of what i need so once i get it out and apart i can just get it done without having to keep running round what all am i goin to have to replace and need 

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This won't be easy but I will take a shot at it.  You will need the following:

  • A clean, dry place to work, large garage.  Use clean lint free towels, and use 'clean room' techniques.  Understand aluminum how to clean block deck, mating surfaces.  Use proper sealants and assembly adhesives.
  • A decent metric tool set, sockets, deep sockets, extensions, breaker bars, In line wrenches, quick connect tools (fuel line), open end, box end, inch and foot pound torque wrenches, torque angle meter, harmonic balancer puller, water pump pulley puller, rear seal installer, engine flywheel lock, brass detail brushes, hand tools (screw drivers, nut drivers, hammers, plastic scrapers, pry bars, picks) in 1/4 and 3/8 inch.
  • The engine must be locked at the flywheel with proper lock to aid with timing, balancer removal, etc (in my opinion).
  • 1/2 inch drill like Milwaukee hole shooter
  • An engine crane
  • An engine stand including bolts/spacers to attach engine
  • The factory service manual, I wouldn't attempt the job without it, it provides torque specs, R&R procedures, timing chain/cam marks and timing procedure, proper torque sequences, etc
  • Contact the GM dealer for the most current head bolt torqueing specs
  • large baggies for associated nuts and bolts for various components to keep things organized,
  • You should have planned an engine R&R procedure, the AC compressor does not need removal/depressurization and stays with the vehicle tied off to something
  • digital camera
  • compressor with air chuck for blowing out dirt and filings
  • decide which method of repair you will use, 1) Timeserts with kit that includes drills, jig, OEM head bolts, ctc, 2) Norms inserts with tooling plus head bolts or ARP studs or 3) Northstar Performance studs with tooling.  The GM recommended repair is Timeserts.  It is VERY important that you understand how to drill, what to look out for and how to install the serts.  Installing inserts or studs into deteriorated material will cause a failure you must know what deteriorated material looks like.  But you MUST know that the block MUST be repaired, not repairing the block will lead to a quick failure of the head gaskets.  Do not assume that you can just install head gaskets with new head bolts and be done with it.  New head bolts MUST be used, unless you use NP studs.  I will not opine on which is the best method they all have plusses and minuses.
  • All parts required to do head gasket like an upper engine seal/gasket set, including head gaskets, intake seals, crossover seals, etc
  • If you plan to do the case half seal, to stop leaks a lower end seal set including oil manifold, real seal, etc
  • Torque converter seal and installer
  • Oil, Oil filter, coolant, top off tranny fluid
  • Anything you find along the way that needs replacing, hard to say what that could be, such as engine mounts, hoses, clamps, oil cooler lines, belts, CV shafts, radiator, o-rings, HVAC cover, evaporator, brake lines,   etc

Members will post anything I forgot,


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Yes the engine is physically similar, but the 2002 uses a different interface bus and so wiring harness and electronics.    So while it is possible to swap one for the other by using a hybrid of components from both, it would not be simple.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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I like to group Northstars like this

93, 94 similar engines, using the same intake manifold, OBD1

95 uses a different intake, also OBD1 and could probably be used for 93 and 94, but I have not confirmed that yet

96 to 99 similar group, OBD2 rubbing element lifters similar to 93 to 95

00 to 03 combustion chambers redesigned to allow regular fuel, slight compression ratio change, roller follower lifters greatly reduced oil shear, coil packs, the head bolts were improved

04 head bolts improved

Now that is not to say that engines can not be swapped into different groups, there was a member on this board that used a 96 in a 95/94 or visa versa, but to not run into problems the groupings above are advised


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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4 hours ago, Bruce Nunnally said:

Yes the engine is physically similar, but the 2002 uses a different interface bus and so wiring harness and electronics.    So while it is possible to swap one for the other by using a hybrid of components from both, it would not be simple.

So it can be done 

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I don't believe it can, not easily anyway.  Let's see what @Logan says


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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11 hours ago, Chris Deville said:

So it can be done 

Nothing u do to the northstar engine is simple but im sure i can make it work if it can be done and i know i can redo the headgasket and bolts to the other engine and thanks again guess ill be back here after i get all the stuff for the headgasket job nd let yall know how it goes thanks again

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I am certainly not the expert...

The biggest snag is the crankshaft is different. 

More details here about differences...

http://www.northstarperformance.com/interchange.php

 

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42 minutes ago, Logan said:

I am certainly not the expert...

The biggest snag is the crankshaft is different. 

More details here about differences...

http://www.northstarperformance.com/interchange.php

 

I would call you an expert @Logan don't be modest 😊 that is the kind of info that is very helpful, thanks.

I personally would not attempt this swap no need for it.  I would buy a compatible engine from a scrap yard, rebuild it and install it then sell the old engine as is or repair it.


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I am often conflicted with questions that ask, “is it possible?”.  “Could one do it with the proper tools , skills, and insight?” may actually be less important than “should soneone do it?” which is easier to answer: and I agree the answer is probably “no”.  

Even if you had the 95 or 96 engine you would be better off (and spend less) swapping it for the right year before trying to use it.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube

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