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Cadillac Deville crank but no start


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16 hours ago, Otten33 said:

Would low battery cause issue with fuel pump?  It was down to 40 percent.  Have it on charger now.

 

3 minutes ago, Otten33 said:

Battery is brand new walmart battery.  It is fully charged but has not been load tested.  I can take it up to oreilys to have them check it out for me.

Please stop contradicting yourself, I am replying to it was down to 40 percent.  40 percent means its down to 4.8 volts, now its new...

You are cranking and cranking, keep it charged

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Hows that contradicting myself.  The battery is brand new.  I replaced the battery a few weeks ago, but after cranking several times it runs the battery down.  When i put the battery charger on it, it says 40 percent.  It took an hour to recharge it back up to 100 percent.  Now the battery could have been defective from the factory.  I do not know for sure.  I can have it load tested.  Hopefully this makes sense for you.

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17 hours ago, Otten33 said:

DDM B3832

DDM B2507

IPC U1000

IPM B0419

IPM B0429

PCM P0016

PCM P0341

PCM  P0463

PDM B3832

PCM B2507

 

all current codes.

See this thread, he also has a P0016 code and a no start.  I directed a post to him and sent him a PM to see how he fixed it.  Does this engine have VVT variable valve timing?

 

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My battery charger when first connected shows volts and percentages.  If I remember right it was like 11.8 at 40 percent.  This is not uncommon as the cars alternator is not charging the battery and I am using the battery to crank.

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I do not think it has VVT.  The reason for saying this is that normally cars with VVT have it marked on the engine somewhere and as this is my 2nd cadillac deville I have never seen that label.  I will double check on it though.

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Just now, Otten33 said:

Hows that contradicting myself.  The battery is brand new.  I replaced the battery a few weeks ago, but after cranking several times it runs the battery down.  When i put the battery charger on it, it says 40 percent.  It took an hour to recharge it back up to 100 percent.  Now the battery could have been defective from the factory.  I do not know for sure.  I can have it load tested.  Hopefully this makes sense for you.

If you were on THIS side you would understand how frustrating this is.  I say cam sensor and you talk about crank sensors, you say 40% battery then say its new.  

Stay ON TOPIC, try not being contrary and argumentative.  Find the CAM sensor, look at wiring and connector 

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1 minute ago, Otten33 said:

I do not think it has VVT.  The reason for saying this is that normally cars with VVT have it marked on the engine somewhere and as this is my 2nd cadillac deville I have never seen that label.  I will double check on it though.

No need to check it, it was a yes or no question.  Doubtful its vvt, I was just inquiring.  Drop the thought.  See the link to thread above, SAME PROBLEM

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4 minutes ago, Otten33 said:

My battery charger when first connected shows volts and percentages.  If I remember right it was like 11.8 at 40 percent.  This is not uncommon as the cars alternator is not charging the battery and I am using the battery to crank.

I have NO idea what 11.8 at 40% means, just keep it charged 

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

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Don't mean to be argumentive.  I will say that I know a little bit about cars but still would consider myself a newbie as far as fixing them myself.  I do really appreciate you, bodybyfisher, for trying to help me.  It was my understanding that the sensors i changed above the oil filter adapter were one camshaft position sensor and one crankshaft position sensor.  I am wrong in that thinking.  Apparently they are both crankshaft position sensors.

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The reason why I was thinking VVT was because of this thread.  The P0016 can be very serious in that there is a timing chain problem  (jumped tooth) or the sensor is bad.  That is why I directed you to the cam sensor to see the connector and wiring and report back.

The other thread I linked you to above, the poster responded that he has low compression on cylinders 1 and 2 and he is looking at a new engine.  However, it is possible his low compression is caused by the timing gears being jumped and possible timing or bent valves causing low compression.  

I think you are somewhere in this problem.  

If I were you at this point, I would replace the CAM sensor and see what happens.  At the very least, do a resistance test on it.  You will need to find the proper resistance

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/p0016-obd-ii-trouble-code-camshaft-position-a-camshaft-position-correlation-bank-1-by-jay-safford

 

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11 minutes ago, Otten33 said:

Don't mean to be argumentive.  I will say that I know a little bit about cars but still would consider myself a newbie as far as fixing them myself.  I do really appreciate you, bodybyfisher, for trying to help me.  It was my understanding that the sensors i changed above the oil filter adapter were one camshaft position sensor and one crankshaft position sensor.  I am wrong in that thinking.  Apparently they are both crankshaft position sensors.

Its ok, it is very hard to diagnose and help people this way when my digital service manual is not operative.  I need to fix it.  Sorry for being impatient.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

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Ok see this thread, he was here last July and just got his car back 2 weeks ago.  I am a little worried about his low compression in #1 and #2.  The P0016 can be a bad sensor or a jumped timing chain.   This is an interference engine, meaning that if the timing chain is jumped there is a danger of the pistons and valves hitting, bending the valves and causing low compression that he has.  

On the other hand, low compression can come from fuel wash and cranking trying to start it also.

I am waiting to see if he replaced the CAM sensor with no success.  So hold on the CAM sensor till we see what he says.

This is the thread, he responded quickly:

 

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2 hours ago, BodybyFisher said:

Be sure your battery is good, it is fully charged and can pass a load test.

Give us a voltage test at the battery

You have codes that are lingering for cam sensor performance.  Disconnect the NEG cable for a minute and reconnect, try starting with fully charged battery and then check P and B codes again and post here.

Take a look at the CAM sensor and be sure it is connected it is on the rear head, on the passenger outboard side see photo.

0a25b5ef-9fa1-4af2-b6b3-f7641d3457cc_zpsdgegrru1.png

Is this picture from the bottom side of passenger side of engine?

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Where the CAM sensor wording is, its the top of the engine, just below the cam cover.  

I was hoping the fellow in the other thread would reply.  He may have gotten called away, he initially responded very quickly which was great.  If he replaced the CAM sensor and it didn't solve his starting problem that isn't good, so I wanted you to wait for his reply.

If in the other hand you want to replace it, go ahead, its hard to get to so take your time.  

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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29 minutes ago, Otten33 said:

I ordered the camshaft sensor.. should get it Monday or Tuesday.

If you look at the other thread, he DID replace the CAM sensor and it did not solve his issue.  I don't think the prognosis is good even replacing the CAM sensor. 

But I will keep my fingers crossed.

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I hope mine is not as extreme as his and that the camshaft sensor corrects issue.  Is that issue related to fuel pump not getting power?  Seems to me like a separate issue.  Both causing a no start situation.  Is that right?

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No, the P0016 does not disable the fuel pump you seem to have a separate issue.  There are a few issues that disable the fuel pump but not the P0016 based on the information Logan provided in the other thread.

Recheck your fuel pump installation, you might swap the old one back in to see if you get any pressure.  You could have a bad pump, something that would be incredible 

Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >>

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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35 minutes ago, Otten33 said:

Ok I'll try this weekend.

Carefully inspect the fuel pump connector contacts for discoloration from overheating or the plastic melting.

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How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I would focus on the 12v issue at the pump. Should have 12v for about 2 seconds at key 'on'. You may have to set DVOM against back window to watch and see....I dont think you can get back to the trunk fast enough to see it on a DVOM. 

Varying fuel pressure readings earlier...and now reading 0 psi... 

It appears someone did actually install a new pump trying to fix it. 

Could be a blued wire connection or even a broken wire inside the insulation. Can be either the male or female part of the connection. 

Can be inside the plastic part of the connector. Look for melted or scorched looking plastic around the male prongs. 

 I am assuming  the new fuel pump assembly was a complete drop in 'bucket' assembly....I would think that would solve any issues on the pump end of the business. 

It can require a very, very close inspection....maybe it is just going unnoticed. I did attach another picture example of a blued / hot fuel pump connector. It can also be at the wire connections inside the tank....not just the outside plug. 

 

Other issues:

The fuel pressure gauge may have been damaged in a odd way being connected to the Chevy. 

In one post I think he mentioned swapping some relays around.....hopefully he knows the relay pins have to be oriented in the correct position. 

Could be wrong or defective pump assembly. 

 

If....upon inspection....nothing is found at the tank end.... I would head to the fuel pump relay....remove the relay and put a fused jumper in and see if there is now voltage out to the pump.  Retest. 

The car isn't going to start without 12v at the fuel pump.

 

 

 

fuelpumpblue.JPG

 

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c420b.JPG

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