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any info on valve damage due to timing belt issues? my saturn vue uses the opel 3.0 motor which is basically the same as the cts 3.2. i got vue with suspected timing belt issues and i pulled heads and all intake valves nicked the piston tops. but there are not exhaust valve nicks. i think 2 cyls have stuck valves but 4 look ok but i plan on replacing all intake valves. anyone know if my exhaust valves are probably ok? yes i can pull valves and inspect them and so on but if someone says the exhaust valves dont have issues than i will go from there.

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Been there on this engine.....only the intake valves hit because they are a larger valve.

Plan on replacing all the intake valves....they are very cheap on eBay. Maybe $40 for all new intake valves.

You wont even have to lap the valves....sounds crazy....but valve seats have gotten so good....you are actually creating more damage by lapping them in.

You will likely find all the intake lifters pumped up.....the intake valves wont close until you dismantle each one....very time consuming to do.

You will need a specific Kent Moore tool to get the valve retainers out....I may actually still have the tool.

Picture says it all.....all intake valves bent.....2002 Saturn VUE with 3.0L Opel Ecotech engine. Guess who took the picture?

 

bentvalve.jpg

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Ugg I hated these jobs at the dealer under warranty. I replaced all the valves intake and exhaust. The exhaust side valve stem would always have a slight crack in them. I lapped the new valves in and put it back together. 

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58 minutes ago, barczy01 said:

Ugg I hated these jobs at the dealer under warranty. I replaced all the valves intake and exhaust. The exhaust side valve stem would always have a slight crack in them. I lapped the new valves in and put it back together. 

A crack in the valve stem?, why do you think that happened?  very odd

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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exhaust valves hitting the pistons being they were closer to the piston. The valvestem would crack a quarter of an inch up the stem on the exhaust side.  

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58 minutes ago, barczy01 said:

exhaust valves hitting the pistons being they were closer to the piston. The valvestem would crack a quarter of an inch up the stem on the exhaust side.  

Wow, lots of damage if a valve face drops.  Is this related to a timing chain problem?


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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That was related to the timing belt recall and the harmonic balancer rubber getting into the timing belt area. Wow those cars have just disappeared!

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1 minute ago, barczy01 said:

That was related to the timing belt recall and the harmonic balancer rubber getting into the timing belt area. Wow those cars have just disappeared!

Thanks!


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Logan, I rented the timing kit from you? 4 yrs ago?

that was for kids vue, I got this one as a test of my patience

Really been putting this off.

i removed cams and kept everything organized.

but I was inspecting cams and wanted to verify some things.

all have same casting number.

each has a GC number. Gc25, gc26, GC27 and GC 19

there is no numbers/etching on cam ends. How do u ID and intake or exhaust cam?

i measured the lobes and they are identical lift? Or within .010?

Edited by Cavell

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This should alert Logan to your question

@Logan

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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I bought a silver 3.0 vue in January. Had misfire. Leaky gaskets, rotten exh for almost nothing. 

Than I found another 3.0 with an all new exhaust. New cats, new tires. But bad timing?

owner had spent $2500 on parts and had new timing kit put on as maintenance.

drove for several weeks and it stalled. Sold it to me

i found no compression and bent valves.

silver vue is gone. Current vue is red.

Edited by Cavell

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base circle to lobe tip is .025" different between 2 cams. i still would like to find some info on the cam markings i found.

Edited by Cavell

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Went to vauxhall/omega site.they use same motor

told to clean dia next to cast hex. Found the markings

e1, a2, a3, e9

e1 is exhaust near radiator in my case.

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Sorry....was out of town for 4th...

 

The engine is a 54 degree block design by Opel. Iron block with aluminum heads. It is used in multiple car lines in Europe. It is used in the US in the Cadillac Catera, CTS, Saturn VUE and L series. 2005 Saturn L series was the last year used in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_54°_V6_engine

 

The intake and exhaust cams are different. From GM service manual..

"Important:  

   •  The intake is marked with the letter A. 

   •  The exhaust is marked with the letter E. "

 

Typically....if the timing belt fails or slips. All the intake valves will hit the pistons. The exhaust valves are smaller and do not hit the pistons...(on 3.0L....not sure about 3.2L..). The pistons survive no problem.  

 

You need tool J-42069 for the timing belt. You also need Kent Moore tool J-43963 to compress the valves. You need new head bolts as they are TTY.

saab.JPG

saab2.JPG

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The lower timing belt pulley does not have a hex eccentric design? All the pics I see of vue motors has an eccentric. Do the cts 3.2 motors not use the eccentric?

Edited by Cavell

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It depends on the year of the engine. 

Early engines did use a eccentric lower pulley. The engine pictures above show a engine using a eccentric lower pulley. 

Later engines...after about 1999 or 2000....that lower pulley is just a running pulley on a bolt and bearing....no adjustment possible.  

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my car has a new cast alum tensioner bracket so it has the 2 new rollers which are mounted to it. but the previous mechanic reused the right/lower roller which does not have a hex adjuster. i found a number of videos online about setting the timing using both hex adjusters. my timing marks are very close. less than 1/16" from marks.i think all 4 marks are about the same. i tried to tweak the single hex i have on the cast bracket and it seems to have no effect on the timing. i decided for giggles to order a new roller for the right/lower position to see if i can make a more pronounced change. and to at least get new bearings in the roller. i see rockauto has the fixed hub roller in stock and the offset roller. but i have been told the latest cast bracket should be used with the 2 hex rollers.

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the pic of cast alum bracket shows a thin "finger" under the hex pulley. the new bracket does not have this and also moves the hex roller about 3/4" to the right. actually, i think the middle roller is about 1/4" from the cam sprocket 3.  the gates website says use a hex roller in the 3rd position or the belt may have "tracking" issues. the old roller did have a noisy bearing. i guess the former mechanic was just lazy.  motor is timed now. i am putting bits back on and should try and start it this weekend after 5 months of sitting.

Edited by Cavell
info

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I don't know the official name of it....but there are 2-3 versions of the aluminum bracket with the 2 pulleys. 

It should also be noted....there is a misprint in the Saturn / GM service manual. In some the main tensioner directions and picture will not match the vehicle. If you find that to be the case try looking up a 2001 Catera....whola...there it is.

I think the NAPA current version of the replacement tensioners includes a adjustable lower one....in order to facilitate the two versions into one part #. 

And some belts have paint marks on them.....2 sets of marks...one set for early version....second set for latter versions.

 

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Serp belt is on. Valve covers are on. Exh is bolted to manifolds. Did I mention former owner replaced entire exhaust? New cats. Woohoo. That's why I bought vue. For new exhaust. Only need to drop intake plenum on. Kid has another 3.0 vue that needs a thermostat. Which I have. Was going to do that job as a primer for my vue. Than hoses/fittings/wire layout would be fresh in my mind.

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Been there....getting close. 

I did look up the name of the aluminum bracket in the GM manual....has a high tech name...'timing belt tensioner bracket'.

Did you dismantle the pumped up intake valve lifters?

 

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yes i did. real test of patience to take apart 24 lifters. the vue is running now. kid with vue #2 was over yesterday. i replaced a wheel bearing. her motor makes the same clatter/tap sound as my vue. are the 3.0 motors just noisy? injector noise? cam/lifter clatter? of course i did her timing belt 4 yrs ago. maybe there is a common link here?

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Kind of a old design engine....not exactly a purring masterpiece. Certainly noisier than a Honda or Lexus. 

Having had 2 of these VUEs in the past....you kinda develop a ear for when everything is running and sounds ok. 

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i ran motor for 30 min or so a few days ago. started it again yesterday and it is purring. clatter is 90% gone. how it goes from noisy to not noisy when it is off is odd. i am impressed by how smooth it seems to ride vs my previous vue which sounded like parts were falling off. the suspension actually feels tight. it does have new rear coils and shocks. the front struts look original. this is first used car i have had that has 100% new exhaust. from cats back to muffler tip. very quiet.

Edited by Cavell

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