98DeVilleish Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 So I got a oil change on Friday then Saturday night drove my 98 DeVille you know just cruising. Sunday morning I hit the junkyard came home and got in my caddy and I was letting it warm up and it shut off by itself. Weird, now at this point I already knew my EOP SENSOR was bad but it's been bad for a while. It started making like a shutter noise from back of block almost where the spark plugs is but I hear it clearer from bottom of my block. More like a rattling some where in between. It wants to stall when I drove it to my mechanic. Any ideas in new on here. Thanks I'll try my best to answer some questions. That I know of my crankshaft positions were okay I did have them changed but it seems like they worked for a while then I would get the same codes for them. They are notorious for going out on these models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 they were not notorious til year 2000 when GM got friendly with BOSCH (my opinion) your 98 has the same as mine and I have never changed one on any of mine Have you checked your oil? Welcome to Caddyinfo GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 What are you referring to as EOP sensor? Spell it out for me so I know we're on the same page. Does it want to stall when slowing? Does it want to stall at steady speeds? Does it want to stall on acceleration? i'm with rockfangd, check the engine oil level. Check DTC's through the I/P ( hold off & warmer on the climate control panel ) and write down all the codes and the letter designation preceding the 4 digit number. They scroll pretty fast so take a video with your cell phone if possible, or repeat the process until you have them all written down. THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98DeVilleish Posted February 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 The codes I get are pcm 1350 current pcm p1599 history ipc b1552 history ipc b2711 current acm b1348 history sdm b1171 history sdm b1327 history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98DeVilleish Posted February 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 I have checked oil! It looks to be topped off let it sit for 2 days then checked it. I gave a little gas and it stalled, drove home from mechanic and it wanted to stall but I didn't let it. I have a video of what the sound sounds like. I can send it on messenger but I don't think on here. And yes EOP ENGINE OIL PRESSURE SENSOR! Thanks for the replies. It's my first Cadillac and vehicle. Any other questions let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98DeVilleish Posted February 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 Wanted to stall at slowing down. I only drove it to my mechanic right down the street then back to my house. Didn't wanna be stranded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted February 17, 2017 Report Share Posted February 17, 2017 The P1350 is the most likely problem, it is an Ignition Control Module open or short to ground.. The P1599 is Stall or near stall detected. (yes I know - no kidding huh) When I get home I'll look up the P1350 diag and let you know....prob be 'bout 7pm local time though THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 Okay, I got to it early, I'm not sure what your diagnostic level is but the ICM diagnosis is very intense and requires a DMM and a jumper wire set. If you have a technician you trust, you may be better off taking it to him or a Cadillac Dealership. You have a high probability of damaging components if these tests are done incorrectly. Here is the diagnostic tree; Circuit Description; Under normal system operation when the key is turned ON and until engine RPM is high enough for the PCM to control spark, the PCM will open the bypass circuit (CKT 424) to the Ignition Control Module, the IC module will then ground the Ignition Control circuit (CKT 423). This is called module mode because the IC module is controlling spark. Once the engine speed is high enough (about 65 RPM), 4X reference pulses are received and no PCM faults are detected the PCM will close the bypass line and in response the IC module will unground the IC circuit, this allows PCM control of spark. This is called the ignition control mode. This diagnostic test is used to check for faults in both the bypass circuit and the IC circuit. To check both circuits this diagnostic runs two tests, one during crank and one while running. If Ignition Control pulses are detected by the PCM on the IC line while in module mode (cranking) or if no Ignition Control pulses are detected by the PCM while in ignition control mode (running) DTC P1350 will set. Conditions for Running the DTC • Cranking Test - DTC P1376 not set. - At least 1 4X reference pulse has been received by the PCM. • Running Test - DTC P0322 and P1376 not set. - At least 1 4X reference pulse has been received by the PCM. Conditions for Setting the DTC • Cranking Test Ignition Control pulses are received by the PCM when cranking or running test has failed THIS ignition cycle. • Running Test No Ignition Control pulses are received by the PCM while engine is running. Action Taken When the DTC Sets • PCM ignition control is disabled for ignition cycle. • PCM disables EGR. • Transaxle shift adapts are maintained at current levels. • The PCM will illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) when the diagnostic runs and fails. • The PCM will record operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. This information will be stored in the Freeze Frame and Failure Records. Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC • The PCM will turn the MIL OFF after three consecutive drive trips that the diagnostic runs and does not fail. • A Last Test Failed (current) DTC will clear when the diagnostic runs and does not fail. Diagnostic Aids If fault is not present check terminal contact at the IC module and PCM connectors. Test Description When checking for shorts to ground, resistance of more than 10K ohms is usually acceptable although most readings should be infinite (OL). When checking for circuit continuity (opens) resistance should be 5 ohms or less. When checking for shorts to voltage take measurements with the ignition ON and OFF. Disconnect the circuit from all components before performing any circuit check. Always check or zero the meter before performing resistance checks. A diagnostic jumper can be created with the terminals supplied in the J-38125 . Assemble the jumpers and terminals and cover the exposed terminals with heat shrink tubing. Do not cover the spade of the male terminals. If the vehicle stalls during this step turn the ignition OFF and wait 30 seconds then restart the engine before attempting to measure the circuit voltage. 1 Did you perform the Powertrain On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check? -- Go to Step 2 Go to the Powertrain On Board Diagnostic (OBD) System Check 2 Are DTCs P0322, P0372, P1323, P1371, P1375 or P1376 also set? -- Go to DTCs that are set Go to Step 3 3 Turn the ignition OFF Wait 30 seconds. Turn the ignition ON but do not crank the engine. Clear DTC P1350. After clearing the DTC start and idle the engine. Does P1350 fail this ignition? -- If Yes - Go to Step 4 If No - Fault not present. 4 Record the fluid life indexes. Turn the ignition OFF. Wait 30 seconds. Using the DMM check the Bypass and Ignition Control circuits for high resistance, shorts to ground, shorts to voltage and shorts to other circuits. Refer to Test Descriptions. Repair circuits as needed. Was a repair made to any circuit? -- Go to Powertrain Control Module Diagnosis Go to Step 5 5 Reconnect PCM connector C2. Turn the ignition ON but DO NOT crank the engine. Using the DMM measure the DC voltage to ground on the Bypass circuit and then the Ignition Control circuit. Is the voltage less than the value specified? 1.0 volts Go to Step 6 Go to Step 11 6 Turn the ignition OFF. Wait 30 seconds. Install diagnostic jumper at IC module C4. OR: • Jumper C4 terminal A to module pin A. • Jumper C4 terminal B to module pin B. • Jumper C4 terminal C to module pin C. • Jumper C4 terminal D to module pin D. • Jumper C4 terminal E to module pin E. • Jumper C4 terminal F to module pin F. Disconnect the Ignition Control and Bypass circuit jumpers (terminals D and E). Ensure jumpers are away from contacting other circuits, engine ground or each other. Start and idle the engine. Measure the DC voltage to ground on the Ignition Control circuit FROM the PCM. Is the voltage fixed near the value specified? 1.7 volts Go to Step 7 Go to Step 11 7 Measure the DC voltage to ground on the Bypass circuit FROM the PCM. Is the voltage less than the value specified? 1.0 volts Go to Step 8 Go to Step 11 8 Momentarily ground the Ignition Control circuit. Measure the DC voltage to ground on the Bypass circuit FROM the PCM. Is the voltage the same or more than the value specified? 4.7 volts Go to Step 9 Go to Step 11 9 Check terminal contact at the IC Module connector C4. Repair terminal contact if needed. Was terminal contact repaired? -- Go to Powertrain Control Module Diagnosis Go to Step 10 10 Replace the Ignition Control Module. Refer to Ignition Control Module Replacement . Is the replacement complete? -- Go to Powertrain Control Module Diagnosis -- 11 Check terminal contact at PCM connector C2. Repair terminal contact if needed. Was terminal contact repaired? THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98DeVilleish Posted February 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 I do have a theft system problem car may not restart message but I have been having that for over a year. I have taken off the beauty cover. Would it be a bad idea to test drive the caddy? See if it smoothed out? God this Is a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted February 18, 2017 Report Share Posted February 18, 2017 The theft system problem is not related to the stalling condition. The theft system will keep it from starting, once it starts, the theft system is off-line until the ignition key is cycled ( turned off and then restarted ). I think it would be a bad idea to drive it very far. If it is the ICM or the PCM and it fails while driving it becomes tow mode or tennis shoe mode. THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98DeVilleish Posted February 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 Thank you! She will sit for now! Thank you to everyone who replied and tried to help. Good thing I have a second vehicle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 I received a video of this knock, its a horrid sound. He was getting a DTC P1189 Engine Oil Pressure (EOP) Switch Circuit code and changed the oil pressure switch, based on the above codes he has solved that problem. From my talks with him, he had no knock, went for an oil change and suddenly he got a knock. I have discussed the knock in this video with Jake from NP and he seems to think its a main bearing knock, it seems higher to me than that and right under the cam cover. I lean toward a dished lifter, what do you all think? I think a listening device like a stethoscope or hose placed on the cam cover and block may localize it better. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHE Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 He needs to post a video of him increasing the engine RPM - if the noise subsides, it could be a lifter but it sounds worse than a lifter noise to me. Either rod or main bearings. I agree on using a stethoscope to isolate the noise to the block, heads, or timing cover area. Was this engine run way low on oil by chance? Kevin '93 Fleetwood Brougham '05 Deville '04 Deville 2013 Silverado Z71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 I asked if he ever could have run with actual low or no oil pressure thinking that he was getting a false code due to the P1189 and he said no. Iv asked him to come by when he gets time. He can send me the new video via Messenger and Ill post it here again. Thx, Kevin Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Sounds to me like a couple of collapsed lifters..... The rod or mains would make a much lower tone noise. Since this started after an oil change I would be suspect of no check valve in the oil filter causing air cavitation of the oil pump and/or oil viscosity issues such as oil additives etc.. THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 A mechanics stethoscope would be ideal for pinpointing the noise THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, OldCadTech said: Sounds to me like a couple of collapsed lifters..... The rod or mains would make a much lower tone noise. Since this started after an oil change I would be suspect of no check valve in the oil filter causing air cavitation of the oil pump and/or oil viscosity issues such as oil additives etc.. I had said that maybe they used 5w20 and a cheap filter and to change the oil first as it was too coincidental for this to happen. Maybe a couple of lifters collapsed from 5w20 Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 honestly if it were me I would have taken it back to where you had the oil change done. too coincidental GM FAN FOREVER Nice, clean, luxury= fine automobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 ^^^^^^^^^ What he said...... ^^^^^^^^^^ @BodybyFisher Is the OP bringing the vehicle to you to look at? If so, does this noise go away above idle and at cruise? I wouldn't drive it if it doesn't, the lifters wouldn't last long and neither would the camshafts. May be too late already THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 The OP is located in Texas, we connected on a FB Cadillac group and I directed him here. Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 OoO ... Do you know if the noise goes away above idle? THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BodybyFisher Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 I don't. He works odd hours and sleeps during the day. Ill messenger him and get him to pop by. The last I spoke to him he became frustrated with the car and was talking about getting rid of it. Its too coincidental that this occurred after the oil change Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1 >> 1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> https://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/gm/obd_codes.htm How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/ Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Nunnally Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 19 hours ago, OldCadTech said: A mechanics stethoscope would be ideal for pinpointing the noise Speaking of which my son's store has actual medical stethoscopes for $9.99 for new EMT students, and better quality MDF ones at $26 and $61 for professionals.k. So if anyone wants to up their diagnostic game I can hook you up, Bruce 2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing Follow me on: Twitter Instagram Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCadTech Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 @Bruce Nunnally I have two, one I have is probably comparable to the better quality one in the $50 - $60 range. It doesn't seem like it would make much difference between a $10 one and a $50 one but in fact, it is a very noticeable difference in pinpoint accuracy. I highly recommend the higher quality ones. FWIW 3 hours ago, BodybyFisher said: The last I spoke to him he became frustrated with the car and was talking about getting rid of it. @BodybyFisher I know he was discouraged, the ICM diagnosis is very involved and not for the average DIY'er... That noise is discouraging enough. THERE IS ALWAYS ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB RIGHT - THERE IS NEVER ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE JOB AGAIN !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98DeVilleish Posted February 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 Sorry guys I work grave yard shift. So I spend most of my days sleeping during the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.