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If my car has thrown a p0741 code and it is the early stages , how long do,i,have before the fragments get into the transmission , and it goes from a torque converter  replacement to a transmission rebuild?

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It's hard to say how long/how many miles you have until the clutches in the torque converter let go.  Once debris gets into the trans, you're looking at replacement, not rebuilding.


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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So i have had the p0741 code for about 3 and a half months now on my 2000 cadillac eldorado esc . I have been driving very carefully because i also have a cracked block due to poor head stud instillation . My mileage is about 16 miles per gallon at the moment . I rarely take the car over 60 miles an hour. I am going to have the engine replaced this month. I also am hoping to fix the p0741 code . I am getting a whining sound when i start the car in the morning . It will get more high pitched and after about a minute of warming up stops abruptly, and will not do it again til the next morning . Does anyone know of i still have a chance of just replacing the torque converter ,and not the whole transmission ? I am at about 110000 miles on the car right now . 

Edited by Ben ATX

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Do you have a mechanic's stethoscope that you can contact the top of the trans. (near the dipstick) to see if the whining is from the transmission?  If not, you can use a wood dowel or a long screwdriver and place the handle on your ear.

My guess is the noise is coming from the transmission - the trans. pump is caveating due to the scavenger screens being partially plugged from debris from the torque converter clutches.  The noise goes away after a few minutes because the transmission fluid heats up and thins out.  It is then easier to pass through the partially restricted scavenger screens.  You could drop the pan and if you see debris, you know the torque converter is coming apart internally.  If that is the case, the debris has been through the valve body, etc.  It would be best to speak with a transmission shop - the transmission will most likely need to be replaced.

Draining the fluid and cleaning the screens will make the noise go away but it will not stop the torque converter from coming apart internally.  At this point I'd consider the cost of replacing the transmission and the engine and evaluate whether it is really worth it (for example, a Southern car with low miles) to repair the car or find a different Cadillac.


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Ben, when you do you engine noise listening as Kevin advised above, do not wear loose clothing, ie, strings from hooded sweatshirts, long sleeves, etc. that can get caught up in rotating wheels.  Safety first! 

Can the person you bought the car from, give you the name of the person he brought it from?   I would love to know where that transmission came from.   It is from a 2001 White DHS?, correct?    How closely did you look the car over before it went in for head gaskets?   Had you checked codes before it went it to the shop?    You said you did not have a P0741 before it went in, correct?

This may not be in the early stages.   My experience is that the P0741 can exist a fairly long time before the clutch material deteriorates to the point of causing this kind of problem.    I have one right now that has done this for 3 years.    It is slipping at a rate of 350 RPM causing the P0741 to set.    Speak to the prior owners and see if this code existed and when the car was inspected recently, the P0741 can cause the car to fail inspection in my state.    Make it clear to the former owners that you are on a fact finding mission not a blame mission.

A torque converter will not solve this problem, the tranny has to come apart, the TCC engage seals need to be replaced, TCC solenoid plus the torque converter.  The problem now is that your entire tranny needs to be overhauled if debris is distributing around the tranny.   The pan can be dropped to have a look for debris.  As Kevin noted a whine is a condition or blockage causing low pressure, a possible indication that the TCC material could be responsible. 

Kevin, I believe had experience with his tranny whining and the P0741 and he changed his tranny on the ground, a herculean task (he can't wait to do it again :D)

.


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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See this youtube video, its pretty good, he points out the TCC components.

 


Pre-1995 - DTC codes OBD1  >> http://z-cut.de/US/dtcobd1.html

1996 and newer - DTC codes OBD2 >> http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/OBD2/On-BoardDiagnosticTroubleCodes(OBD-II).mht

How to check for codes Caddyinfo How To Technical Archive >> http://www.caddyinfo.com/wordpress/cadillac-how-to-faq/

Cadillac History & Specifications Year by Year  http://www.motorera.com/cadillac/index.htm

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Thank you for your responses. Yes i have contacted both the owner and ,the seller of the car who is no longer in business but very polite and remembers the car . It was purchased at an auction ,and both people responded that the transmission ran great , which it did when i bought it .

It shifted very smoothly and honestly still shifts smoothly .  No noise or shiddering . But this new problem started less than a month ago and i almost fell apart . I can clear the code and it still takes a day or two to come back. I saw the post of the swap that khe did . Wow!!!!. I am going to replace the engine , and there is a matching Vin y transmission in a 2001 ESC Eldorado with 50,000 miles on it I checked the Carfax on it and everything on it is claimed it belonged to somebody who took very good care of it the car came in Cherry condition and they want $140 for this trans  at the parts yard. I am still baffled about why the VIN numbers do not match on this car with the current trans. I can take some guesses but there's really no way to figure out exactly what happened and why I am now getting these problems. Like I said on another post when it came back from the repair it also had Dexcool leaks and oil leaks which it did not have before it went which is especially odd because I paid almost an extra $1,000 to have the block resealed. However I am still in contact with the original seller of the car and neither the dealer nor this person ever had any problems with it again The Whining started less than a month ago. Currently my car is down to about 16 miles per gallon .I am losing a lot of miles

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If i was to drain the fluid clean the screans and replace the torque converter , do you think this would make the p0741 code go away . I currently have money for the engine , but not the trans to be replaced . I will have the money for the trans in about 2 months . So if i could doctor it until that time ,or make the p0741 code go away that would be good, because i need to pass inspection . Apparently in the Austin City Limits I cannot have that code and pass inspection. However I talked to my teacher at my automotive restoration classes and he was telling me that they do not hold that against you in Bastrop County which is one County over but you have to have an address there which I am thinking about trying to do in order to get the inspection unless you can think of a better way. It is basically a Race Against Time at this point. As i I had this sinking feeling that once I heard that sound it meant that I was probably going to have to replace the transmission and the price of the transmission is not the problem but after watching you are post about KHE replacing your own transmission , I know I will need some more money to do that and pull it off effectively with the new 50000 mile trans. So I know the right thing to do at this point would be to drop both the trans and engine and have them both replaced but I can only do one at this point which is the engine and do the other in about 2 months. However I could replace the torque converter drain it and clean the screens for now. I have a month left on my temporary tags and do not want to be driving around illegally Plus I am losing so much gas because of the cracked block and the transmission at this point I want to be driving around a car that is sound and runs well. To me that is the whole point of having this car and I just don't want to give up on it. I found a shop that specializes in Cadillacs and the guy will do the replacement for 1500 if I have my own trans which I will do at the end of January.

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On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 11:06 AM, BodybyFisher said:

Ben, when you do you engine noise listening as Kevin advised above, do not wear loose clothing, ie, strings from hooded sweatshirts, long sleeves, etc. that can get caught up in rotating wheels.  Safety first! 

Can the person you bought the car from, give you the name of the person he brought it from?   I would love to know where that transmission came from.   It is from a 2001 White DHS?, correct?    How closely did you look the car over before it went in for head gaskets?   Had you checked codes before it went it to the shop?    You said you did not have a P0741 before it went in, correct?

This may not be in the early stages.   My experience is that the P0741 can exist a fairly long time before the clutch material deteriorates to the point of causing this kind of problem.    I have one right now that has done this for 3 years.    It is slipping at a rate of 350 RPM causing the P0741 to set.    Speak to the prior owners and see if this code existed and when the car was inspected recently, the P0741 can cause the car to fail inspection in my state.    Make it clear to the former owners that you are on a fact finding mission not a blame mission.

A torque converter will not solve this problem, the tranny has to come apart, the TCC engage seals need to be replaced, TCC solenoid plus the torque converter.  The problem now is that your entire tranny needs to be overhauled if debris is distributing around the tranny.   The pan can be dropped to have a look for debris.  As Kevin noted a whine is a condition or blockage causing low pressure, a possible indication that the TCC material could be responsible. 

Kevin, I believe had experience with his tranny whining and the P0741 and he changed his tranny on the ground, a herculean task (he can't wait to do it again :D)

My P0741 started about 5-6 years before I replaced the trans.  It was very intermittent at first but the last year or so before I changed the trans., it was setting constantly - I'd clear it and it would set again quickly.

20 hours ago, Ben ATX said:

If i was to drain the fluid clean the screans and replace the torque converter , do you think this would make the p0741 code go away . I currently have money for the engine , but not the trans to be replaced . I will have the money for the trans in about 2 months . So if i could doctor it until that time ,or make the p0741 code go away that would be good, because i need to pass inspection . Apparently in the Austin City Limits I cannot have that code and pass inspection. However I talked to my teacher at my automotive restoration classes and he was telling me that they do not hold that against you in Bastrop County which is one County over but you have to have an address there which I am thinking about trying to do in order to get the inspection unless you can think of a better way. It is basically a Race Against Time at this point. As i I had this sinking feeling that once I heard that sound it meant that I was probably going to have to replace the transmission and the price of the transmission is not the problem but after watching you are post about KHE replacing your own transmission , I know I will need some more money to do that and pull it off effectively with the new 50000 mile trans. So I know the right thing to do at this point would be to drop both the trans and engine and have them both replaced but I can only do one at this point which is the engine and do the other in about 2 months. However I could replace the torque converter drain it and clean the screens for now. I have a month left on my temporary tags and do not want to be driving around illegally Plus I am losing so much gas because of the cracked block and the transmission at this point I want to be driving around a car that is sound and runs well. To me that is the whole point of having this car and I just don't want to give up on it. I found a shop that specializes in Cadillacs and the guy will do the replacement for 1500 if I have my own trans which I will do at the end of January.

Draining the fluid and cleaning the screens will make the noise go away temporarily but it will NOT make the P0741 code go away.  The problem is the seals in the torque converter apply circuit are worn and are allowing the torque converter to slip (and generate heat which destroys the internal clutches). 

You should also disconnect the trans. return line from the radiator and purge the fluid.

 


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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Also if you would be so kind to hwlp me with this question . I have found a vinY 2001 eldorado esc in really good condition at the parts yard , and as luck would have it , it only has 50000 miles on it . They want 113.00 with a 30.00$ core charge . I have a 2000 esc viny eldorado . I have had several people at these yatds tell me it wont match up for some reason they thinkthat the 2000 eldorado has to have a 2000 eldorado transmission . I mean is this true ? It cant be right? I feel dilly even asking , but i have had about three yards tell me that .but onviously it cant be true becaise i have a 2001 dhs tranny in it right now . Wi dont know why people think this .

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I think i need to jump on this trans before they crunch the car .its agood deal , i just have to hire someone to pull it for 250$ because i dont have the tools here in Austin . I will have to take it to Houston.

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On Sunday, December 04, 2016 at 0:27 PM, KHE said:

My P0741 started about 5-6 years before I replaced the trans.  It was very intermittent at first but the last year or so before I changed the trans., it was setting constantly - I'd clear it and it would set again quickly.

Draining the fluid and cleaning the screens will make the noise go away temporarily but it will NOT make the P0741 code go away.  The problem is the seals in the torque converter apply circuit are worn and are allowing the torque converter to slip (and generate heat which destroys the internal clutches). 

You should also disconnect the trans. return line from the radiator and purge the fluid.

 

Will the trans have to be dropped in order to clean the screens of all debris?

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No - just the pan.  Just like you were changing the fluid.  Once the bottom pan is off, pull the plug to drain the side cover.  Clean any debris from the pan and reinstall.  Fill with fresh fluid, then disconnect the output line from the trans. cooler and put it into a container.  Have a helper start the engine and purge the fluid until bright red fluid comes out of the line.  You will need to add fluid in the process.


Kevin
'93 Fleetwood Brougham
'05 Deville
'04 Deville
2013 Silverado Z71

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On Thursday, December 08, 2016 at 2:38 PM, KHE said:

No - just the pan.  Just like you were changing the fluid.  Once the bottom pan is off, pull the plug to drain the side cover.  Clean any debris from the pan and reinstall.  Fill with fresh fluid, then disconnect the output line from the trans. cooler and put it into a container.  Have a helper start the engine and purge the fluid until bright red fluid comes out of the line.  You will need to add fluid in the process.

Okay . Are there any tutorials for this job on youtube or elsewhere? Thank you

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I pulled the motor in my 96 sts for headgasket job. Than 2 yrs later the radiator died and ruined the trans. So I pulled the trans. Ironic to have motor suspended by lift bar and trans now gone. Whew. So much work. I found a trans from a 99 Eldo. I also noticed a huge "crack" on back side of block? I could not believe it was a casting Mark. It was on side of block between motor/trans and about 12"-16" half moon sort of arc.  Maybe it was? I put n used trans and drive it for 6 months and sold it for cheap.

Edited by Cavell

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