Bruce Nunnally

Duke SS100 Jaguar replica wheel choices

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Hmmm. http://www.ebay.com/itm/DAYTON-WIRE-WHEEL-ADAPTERS-4-PIECE-SET-/251524421836?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a900618cc&vxp=mtr

What could you do with those?

Sorry, I just got my new high speed internet working (finally) after returning home from AZ and I've got some time on my hands...

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My current tires are 205/75-14, so I either will go to 205/75-15 (more likely) or 215/75-15. I would like to go to 205/75-16, but not a popular tire size. Also i am bordering on the SUV tires lol. I want to stay with radials, as opposed to custom/historical 1940/50/60s radials, and I don't see white walls as fitting for this model. I do like the skinny tire look, but certainly don't want to go any smaller on diameter. The 1" larger diameter will only close 1/2" fender gap, which is why going to 16" is attractive. The 18's I have seen will have the same problem -- either too skinny to carry enough sidewall for the diameter or only available in lower aspect ratios.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Hmmm. http://www.ebay.com/itm/DAYTON-WIRE-WHEEL-ADAPTERS-4-PIECE-SET-/251524421836?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a900618cc&vxp=mtr

What could you do with those?

Sorry, I just got my new high speed internet working (finally) after returning home from AZ and I've got some time on my hands...

Yes, that's the type of thing the OG WIres use. The adapters bolt on to the Duke hubs and provide the 'spline' for that type of wire wheel to ride on.

All in all I think I would prefer bolt-on wire wheels -- that article linked above about the maintenance and balance and short lifetimes for traditional wire wheels gives me pause.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Bruce, when selecting your wheels and tires, don't forget about your side mount spare housings. If you are going to use them with the mounted tire inside, there is only so much room in there. If your want a big OD or section width tire, you may need to use a smaller tire for the spares. Also, will a 16" or larger wheel work with the OD of the opening of the outer cover shell?

When I opened up my spare mount housings, I found two pretty sorry 205-70x15 tires that looked like junk yard rejects. They barely fit inside and it was difficult to refit the shell halves together with the ring and get those tiny screws back in. When I put new tires on, I kept the best two of the 195-75x15 running tires for spares. They fit inside the mount housings better, and I think they probably were designed around the 195 size. I wanted to dispense with the housings and just have the bare spare tires mounted to the sides because I was still looking for a more pure look, but my wife (the real car owner) vetoed that idea.

Bob

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Wow those Brit wheels are pretty

item_90103412_264250.jpg.jpg

They want $383 a piece for them, plus $300 tax as shown in shopping cart, plus shipping (?$), but if they fit then could be a contender. I sent them a note to inquire (enquire) regarding complete specs.

Older wheels have spline drives and the true knockoff nut with hammer to tighten. I am not sure I am comfortable with this technology -- I like the comfort of needing 4 nuts to come loose before the wheel leaves the hub. If that ends up being the only way to get there I will consider and just keep it tightly tight, but if I can get the bolt-on version then I would prefer that.

I did get an email back from UK and shipping for 4 wheels they suggest might run £200. 4 wheels are £964 plus tax £192 for £1,156.8 and shipping 200 for £1,356.8. x $1.68/£ = $2,279. Still pricey, but chrome, bolt-on, my pattern. The only issue I can see is the width -- 5.5" is on the inside limit of what my current 205/75 tires (tirerack says 5.5-7 wide needed). I am tempted to order 1 wheel sent over to try though. I sent back to ask about offset, weight, tubeless, manufacturer, and for an image of the back of the wheel.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Bruce, when selecting your wheels and tires, don't forget about your side mount spare housings. If you are going to use them with the mounted tire inside, there is only so much room in there. If your want a big OD or section width tire, you may need to use a smaller tire for the spares. Also, will a 16" or larger wheel work with the OD of the opening of the outer cover shell?

When I opened up my spare mount housings, I found two pretty sorry 205-70x15 tires that looked like junk yard rejects. They barely fit inside and it was difficult to refit the shell halves together with the ring and get those tiny screws back in. When I put new tires on, I kept the best two of the 195-75x15 running tires for spares. They fit inside the mount housings better, and I think they probably were designed around the 195 size. I wanted to dispense with the housings and just have the bare spare tires mounted to the sides because I was still looking for a more pure look, but my wife (the real car owner) vetoed that idea.

Bob

Yes, I"ll look to see what can be done there; I am thinking limit to what the factory offered which is the 15" wheel at the moment as an upgrade to my 14s, but stay at 205/75 now 15.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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I also sent a note to Troy who is finishing building his Duke - I wonder if I can simply move the fenders to a lower attachment point and reduce my wheel gap that way?


Bruce

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Looking at your options this far there is no doubt in my mind: I´d go for the Dayton 19x2,5"!!!

Think about it: Will You ever drive this car as if You had stolen it? Will there ever be any other aspects than looks and comfort?

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The circle opening of my spare mount housings is exactly the same diameter as my 15" wheels rims to the edge. BTW, I did see some original SS100 front fenders (all aluminum I suppose) on eBay for $1995 each. Probably not a logical way to dispense with my side mounts. Oh, the 19" in painted silver would be cool stock looking though.

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An authentic replica SS100 wheel: http://shop.mwsint.com/product_details.asp?id=713

WW5918C%201.jpg

3¼" x 18" Tubed

Rim Size 3¼" x 18" Rolled Edge

Centre 52mm Vintage One-piece Ribbed

Click here for a guide to identifying hub sizes

Number of Spokes 60

Finish Chrome, also available in silver-painted

Lacing Outer - this wheel is laced to the outer part of the rim only and so does not require a rim band

Outset (mm) 4.3

Back Spacing (mm) 55 (+/- 1.5)

Click here for an explanation of inset, outset and back spacing.

Tubed/Tubeless? Tubed - the application of sealant does not make a tubed wheel tubeless

Notes All MWS chrome wire wheels are manufactured using stainless steel spokes and nipples

Warranty Two year structural and cosmetic

This would look great but have even MORE fender gap due to smaller overall diameter than my current set.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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I also sent a note to Troy who is finishing building his Duke - I wonder if I can simply move the fenders to a lower attachment point and reduce my wheel gap that way?

Troy writes:

Bruce I would not recommend doing it. The running boards would be the hang up. Fenders could be

lowered but remember the mounting holes would have to be patched and painted to match. I intend

on covering the areas you, and I, are not satisfied with. When I do I will make pattern of each area

and where to purchase the plastic. I had a blow out on a front tire on our motorhome and it caused

all of the inner liner to be ripped out. We made a tire mount yesterday...not too good. It looks like

what I will end up with is coming out of the body in a almost straight shot to the wheel. Let you know

how it finally ends up


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Interesting - mwsint also has a kit car wheel http://shop.mwsint.com/product_details.asp?id=89

XW773C-TL%201.jpg

In 15x5.5 with 4x4.25 bolt-on, tubeless, chrome, 2 year warranty, gbp260 (~$436) ea

The spinner is wrong, but project for another day. Same issue here 205/75 tires on narrow 5.5" wheels though


Bruce

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Here is a quick and dirty photoshop of the MWS bolt-on wheels on the Duke. I readily admit I am not a photoshop wizard (actually this is done in GIMP but same principle, and not at all the fault of the tools), but gives the idea.

dukess100+wheels.jpg

I think this makes a big difference in the look of the car.

IMG_0744.JPG


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Just for consideration, the 185 HR(80) 15 tire is 7.4" section width, 26.5 dia., 5-6.5 rim width recommended.

The 205/70x15 is 8.2 width, 26.3 dia. 5.5-7.5 wide recommended.

Are yours presently 205/70x14? They would be 8.3, 25.4, 5-7".

Bob

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In constant units of diameter:

205/75-14 (current): 26.11"

205/75-15: 27.11" (these are within the allowed fitment on 5.5" width wheels, just borderline) = +1"

Also a slightly less expensive design with 72 spokes.

185/80-15: (rare) 26.07" = -.08"

18x4 ss100/kit car with 52mm hub -- don't have a 52mm splined hub that fits Ford 4x108 though -- tubed -- 550x18 custom tires are 29.7" diameter (!) = +3.6"

Could get undrilled 52mm splined hub and have it drilled for 4x4.25?

WW5779C%204.jpg

Jaguar original 18x3.25 takes 400x18 tires, outer diameter 29.7" = +3.6" Traditional splined hub fitment; Problem with hub to fit my Duke.

19x2.5 take blockley 400x19 tires, outer diameter 28.2" = +2". Traditional splined hub fitment; Problem with hub to fit my Duke.

Morgan wires 6.5x17 uni-lug with 42mm hub; perhaps can use the Triumph 4-lug to 42mm adapter and mount, or the undrilled hub? Traditional splined hub fitment; Problem with hub to fit my Duke.

We have a design constraint at the front bumper, which is 3" away from the leading edge of the front tire, and at the leading edge of the rear tires -- the fender is closest there at 4.5". However, we recognize that a change in diameter is halved in each direction.

Okay, so Göran has a point, the traditional wheels are actually larger once mounted with expensive Blockley Tires (if you want to play, you must pay).

I like the 4x18 SS100 kit car ones the best of the lot of traditional tires -- but of course they are the most dear as well at £455 per tire plus Blockley 550 x 18 £139.00 per tire or US$1,000 per wheel/tire pair! (!!)

and they come with the proper spinner with the SS on it and look terrific. Possible that for a fee Motor Wheel Service would pre-drill their undrilled splines for them. Certainly a lot of cash though.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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with wheels & Tires the nice 4x18s roll up to 4200 GBP or around US$7K plus S&H (200 GBP or so). 

Plus a lead hammer. Certainly makes the bolt-on 15x5's seem positively economical.

 

Model Item Qty Unit Price Total
WW5799C/2 SS100 Replica / Kit Car £455.00 £2730.00
RSK364 Undrilled - 8 TPI 52mm Right £70.00 £210.00
RSK365 Undrilled - 8 TPI 52mm Left £70.00 £210.00
BLTU550/600L-17/ 550/600L x 17/18 TR11 Blockley Superior Metal Valve Inner Tube £36.00 £216.00
BLTA550X18 Blockley 550 x 18 £139.00 £834.00
RB18/19-BL 18/19 inch Rim Band £3.00 £18.00
Sub total (excluding VAT): £ 4218.00

Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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These 18x4 wheels and tires appear to be those used on the Suffolk SS100, which recommends them well. http://www.suffolkjaguar.com/suffolk-ss100/works-built-jaguar


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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I emailed Dayton to inquire about 18x4 bolt-on 4x4.25 pcd chrome 72 spoke wheels. There appear to be some US sources of 550x18 tires so perhaps there is a way to get the best of both worlds. Dayton does builds in 8 week run-ups, so I will need to figure out some form and fit model to see if my plan works well on the car - perhaps build up proper diameter and width in cardboard to study.


Update: the 08-13 CTS compact spare is 18x4....gm 9596625. Thinking grab one of these, mount a 550x18 tubed, and even if can't mount due to bolt pattern can likely tell enough about fit?

18x4 wheel/tires would be 3.6" greater diameter, so 1.8" greater in each direction -- perhaps I can simply put my Duke up on jack and add 1.8" of layering on the tire to get an impression of how that will work?


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Wow, you are really working the "little gray cells" on this one. Personally, I would not go a whole lot bigger in overall tire diameter. You may close your fender gap a bit, but you are also increasing height off the ground. Somewhere, you posted that you were concerned about ground clearance underneath. I would seriously consider if there is a way you can lower the car a bit on the suspension. Another consideration is that while you want 6 wheels to have 2 for your side mounts, you don't need the same tires in there (unless you are going to dispose of the covers). Remember, the rim of an 18" wheel will be hidden behind the side mount cover, which may or may not matter to you. The tires won't show, so you could use a compact spare-type tire on those. Doubt you would ever need them, and you can always call Hagerty road coverage to rescue you. I don't have a spare tire for my motorhome and I have driven it 40k miles around the US and Canada, just relying on my emergency road service as a backup. So save money on the spares. I feel your pain on the cost of some of these options. Buying six 22.5" tires for the motorhome stung the budget a bit.

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One other thought. If you did get tires and wheels from the UK, I think you can get the VAT refunded. However, the freight has got to be pretty significant.

Edited by two2go

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Prices shown are without vat; outside of EU no requirement to charge or recoup vat. MWS sent me info on the 15x5.5 chrome wires and those still look good for the modern choices. Also by far a less expensive route.

Waiting for info on 18x4 plan D. Two issues there - MWS solution is true unilug so if I can get Dayton to make bolt-ons I would prefer that - I do like modern safety improvements.

Second issue is tires: the 550-18 vintage tires are all bias ply so besides narrow tread, have lower traction and lower durability and higher cost than radial tires for the 15x5.5 bolt-on w 205/75-15 modern tires. Of course the true historical enthisiast would prefer the true knock-off wheels with vintage tires, and certainly that narrow, tall tire look would be just the thing.

Reading that historical vintage cars can have issues fitting fully inflated side mount spares, so often deflate to fit. I am likely to have to abandon the sidemount casings.

With such custom tires I would want 6 because I'll need working spares til replacements arrive if needed.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Dayton says no joy on an 18x4; they do an 18x5.5 for tractors but they don't true up well, and ride roughly. They can do an 18x7. I asked them if the 19x3.5 advertised for MG TC is still on offer.

Update: yes, still on offer but not produced by them.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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One option to the side mount issue I have considered,is tire covers.Like the ones use on SUV's that cover the outside spare.Another idea is to different wheel covers or blank discs painted body color.I think the painted discs might look ok.Would have to see it to yea or nay it.

Edited by thedukejag

Rick

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After a brief intervention by Jim & Jim I have ordered 4 of the $550 15x7, 4x108 chrome wire wheels from ebay. Coker has some tall tires I may want to try with these to get the rest of the height I am after, but I'll go grab some 205/75-15 tires in the mean time.

The intervention was along the lines of "it is crazy to spend $K on wheels for the Duke" or something like that -- I was trying to explain how cool the high dollar wheels would be while they were intervening and didn't hear it all.

$_57.JPG

If these turn out well I'll order two more from the same place and fill up the spares. If they don't I'll offer them back on ebay.


Bruce

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