Bruce Nunnally

Project: 1939 Jaguar SS100 Replica Classic Roadsters, LTD. "Duke"

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Brought the 39 Jaguar Replica to Car Care Central in Plano http://www.carcarecentral.biz/ for a form VI-30 out of state identification certificate (safety inspection). Service was excellent as always, and I had a nice visit while I waited.

The Duke passed with flying colors (even restarted with minimal retries -- still need to adjust the float or eliminate the bowl siphon or something).

One step closer to title and registration in Texas. Sent off to Hagerty's to make sure the vehicle description on every piece of paper matches identically to avoid confusion. The car is a "1939 Jaguar Replica". Ta da.

I need to get a velcro strap to wrap around the top when down -- it wants to get some air under it.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Regarding the carburetor - Weber makes a complete line, from the lowly Fiat to Ferrari velocity stack array, for most Italian cars and many other imports from everywhere. They also make conversion kits for most makes. That means that they have the nondescript lumps we associate with old American cars, but their forte is the high-performance or racing carburetors that end with velocity stacks, and are very competitive with fuel injection. Others have no built-in input velocity stack and are designed for economy.

From what I could make out of your photos, your two-barrel side-draft has two distinct stacks leading to a cone air cleaner, leading me to believe that is is the most common configuration, velocity stack configuration with concessions to necessities for an air cleaner and use with a daily driver.

Since you've found and priced a rebuild kit and a replacement, carburetor, you don't need links or information. I would like to have the model number of the carburetor so I can look up its configuration, etc.


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-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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My carb is a Weber 32/36 DGAV 33B; the 33B is the casting number, and is shared with some DGAV and DGEV models.

This gave me pause on just ordering a new one, and Redline has not responded to my inquiry yet.

IMG_0839.JPG

If you zoom in you can just see the 32/6 and below it the DGAV 33B.

Redline is the US distributor for Weber carbs, which are made in Spain and Italy. The air filter on this one is not a cone, but rather a 2.5" square with a metal hat.

10AB01FC-56BC-43F3-A71E-19A13AAB0173.JPG

I have ordered a new air filter, housing, and gasket from Redline.

I should note that today I took the air cleaner assembly off, and opened the top of the carb just to find the float, then put it all back together.

The air filter does not have a gasket under it as the new kit is coming with, so whoever 'rebuilt' the carb in the past may not have done

a bang-up job.

That said, the car continues to idle well, and run well. Still has trouble starting, which is why I wanted to see if the float was binding or similar.

I ordered a rebuild kit.

I do have a driving hat similar to the one you showed, and tried it in the car with some success. The shorter brim helps not catch the wind.

I need to get a slightly larger example.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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I noticed the "Leaper" Jaguar on the front of the car was moving around a bit. Upon investigation, the hood ornament was not very attached to the car. I am not sure what the design intent was, or if they lost some parts along the way, or what.

The radiator top cover had a bolt, leading to a plastic hand-twistable wingnut, and the Leaper has two screw posts coming out of it, and one had a nut through it. When I put my hand on the Leaper and 'jiggled', it came right off the car along with the radiator top assembly, nuts, et al.

I think the idea is that a screw through the radiator top would go to a brace which holds the radiator top cover in place. Then the Leaper bolts on to the top cover. I created a brace by cutting out a section of a license plate frame, and attached the radiator top cover with nut and bolt through the brace. Then I attached the Leaper to the top cover with a bolt.

I need to re-source a square top center bolt from the hardware store, and replace the aft nut on the Leaper. Those will be easy enough with the hardware in hand, so I'll loosen and take the whole rig with me to Lowe's or Home Depot.
leapershim.jpg

Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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I looked up the Weber 32/36 DGAV and found that it is a two-barrel downdraft with 32 mm and 36 mm venturis with progressive linkage, like half an American Rochester or Carter four-barrel. The A is for Agua; it has a "water choke" as opposed to an electric or thermal automatic choke. I presume that this means that the automatic choke works from coolant, as opposed to a time delay using an electric heater like an electric choke, or a bi-metal thermally operated choke that works on the heat riser like most American cars in the 1950's and 1960's before electric chokes became more common.

I would take a look at the automatic choke. If it's stuck open or simply needs adjustment, you may not even need to touch the rest of the carburetor. Water chokes tend to stay on longer than electric chokes, and someone probably backed off the adjustment a bit.

There are lots of other people that sell Weber carburetors, parts, and conversion kits. Most of them like the high-performance stuff like the famous DCOE and such because that's probably where the volume and money is, but any one of them will sell you a 32/36 DGAV because that is an excellent carburetor that is used on lots of makes and models and there are a million of them out there. If Redline doesn't get back with you, I turned up this whole new carburetor for $199.95 from webercarbsdirect.com:

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/32_36_DGAV_p/22680.051b.htm

These guys will also sell you a rebuild kit for $20:

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/32_36_DGAV_EV_Repair_kits_and_Parts_s/50.htm

They have a photo, and the kit has gaskets, O-rings, and such but the less-often-needed accelerator pump diaphragm, power valve diaphragm, and idle cut-off solenoid (whatever that is) are sold separately. They also have an exploded view of the carburetor, useful when rebuilding, as a PDF file:

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/v/vspfiles/weber_carburetor_schematics/3236DGAVEV.pdf

All of this leads me to believe that you could probably find a local source of parts for your Weber 32/36 DGAV. I would suggest that you look at the automatic choke in the morning and see if it's closed when the car is cold; if not, turn the adjusting screw (number 57 in the diagram).


CTS-V_Dashboard.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I'm sure you noticed in that close up of the carb, that it looks like only about one thread holding that nut on the stud.

What a nice change up from the sts-v for a nice day. love it

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Herein lies the mystery.  The A in DGAV stands for water choke, as Jim noted.  However, the replacement for a DGAV 33B is a DGEV 33B, which is an electric choke -- suggesting that DGAV doesn't (didn't?) always rigidly mean water choke?

 

As Göran W points out, my carb does not have radiator coolant coming to/from a choke.  It does however have a single red wire running from choke to a power source, which suggests to me electric choke.

 

14B55D62-235E-4479-827B-F1FBBA367670.JPG

 

#48 is the choke in this diagram [link]

 

weber32-36DGEV.jpg

 

airmike -- yes on both counts.  The Roadster is about as minimal as a car can be and still be a car.  The STS-V is about as luxurious and powerful as a car can be. 

 

Rebuild kit and a new air cleaner housing are in the mail / on the way here. 

$(KGrHqJ,!nwE8(R+nlC8BPKGDNNokQ~~60_12.J

Code Item Qty Price Grand Total
92.3237.05 32/36 DGV DGAV DGEV Rebuild Kit 1 $19.95 $19.95

 


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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The red wire at the top of the picture is going to the electric choke...

It is pretty simple to adjust... loosen the three screws on the hold down bracket ... and with the engine cold and air cleaner off... and with throttle about half open... turn the piece the wire is connected to back and forth and you will see the choke open and close.


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Since the only difference between the 32/36 DGAV and the 32/36 DGEV is the source of heat on the automatic choke, you can convert from a 32/36 DGAV to a 32/36 DGEV with a few parts. I have no idea about the heater hose. I would suspect that if there is an external bypass or water heating of the carburetor itself, that is the source of the choke heat. I don't see enough of the carburetor to tell whether it's been converted to manual choke or not.

I think that you have a 32/36 DGEV, albeit converted from a 32/36 DGAV, but there should be absolutely no difference in parts, kits, etc. from the 32/36 DGEV except the choke heater. Here is WeberCarbsDirect.com's page on the DGAV:

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/SearchResults.asp?Extensive_Search=Y&Search=DGEV&Search.x=0&Search.y=0

They sell the carburetor for the same $199.95 and all of the kits and parts are the same. They give the same exploded view chart for both carburetors. It's not exactly the same as the one you posted, but the numbers pointing to the parts are the same, so it's probably an older version.

I'm begining to suspect that WeberCarbsDirect.com is the retail outlet for Redline.

In any case, I would try adjusting the automatic choke if the only problem you are having is slow starting when cold.


CTS-V_Dashboard.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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The problem I am having is slow starting regardless of cold or hot, but especially slow at hot. In fact, it may be better at cold than hot, but not good.

Yesterday we drove to Steak&Shake for dinner. After dinner it took 4 crank sequences with accelerator pumps to get it to catch. I think there is a problem with the float setting, or with bowl siphoning.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Document the 39 Jaguar Replica starting cold.  I will add a video of starting hot later on the way out to lunch.

The first noise on key on are the pusher and puller radiator fans.  It is hard to actually hear the engine running, and it starts at a very low idle but is running on the first start.

 


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Document the 39 Jaguar Replica starting hot.

The first noise on key on are the pusher and puller radiator fans.

After 5 cranks I give up and pump the gas, which helps it to catch and start.

 

IMG_0858.JPG

I also need one of these 14" Special Edition wheel covers as a replacement


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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I don't hear REAL GOOD... but from the way it sounded to me... after you pumped it three times and then it started... it was "ALMOST" flooded...

I would suggest pumping it ONE time then holding the accelerator down about 1/2 inch and see how it starts...

Most of the older cars I have had with carburetors, you needed to hold the accelerator down JUST A BIT to get it to start quickly...


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Thanks Jim. I'll try that next 'start hot' -- hold accelerator down an inch or just light pressure.

I am still wanting to tune it so that it starts first time every time. That would make it more fun for people around me at fuel stops or restaurants -- they always look very worried it is not going to start.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Start up from warm after sitting for Leaper hood ornament repair:

 

[

 

 

 

Back after drive around the block:

 


Bruce

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1939 Jaguar Replica with Weber 32/36 carb -- diagnosing when it is slow to start, and work-arounds for being slow to start.

 


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Speed Tests for the 39 Jaguar Replica. First, I built a profile for the Roadster in Cartest, in order to simulate or predict the 0-mph times. This suggested 0-40 mph in 8.76 sec with 75 hp at 5000 rpm, and a car weight of 2800 lbs. That weight is suspect to me, but is quoted on one of the papers with the car.
CarTest+Stock+Data+file+2800+lb+curb+wt+

cartest+baseline+at+stock+hp+torque+laun
Next I used my IPAD1 and a PocketDyno to record actual 0-mph times. This software uses the accelerometer in the IPAD to sense motion in Gs and then dead reckons to figure relative acceleration.

I can't use my GPS PerformanceBox, as the Roadster doesn't have an auxiliary plug (cigar lighter).

PocketDyno+Test+2013-07-07.PNG

First live results were 0-40 (my convenient test area) in 7.26 sec vs predicted of 8.76. The Roadster has a non-standard weber carb, and a free-flowing exhaust system. On the other hand, the Weber is not properly sorted yet, and the exhaust is oddly done.

Also note that we don't know the actual weight -- I would like to know that very much.

My goals would be to match the 3.5L six performance -- which would require around 150 hp from the 3TC, so heads, cam, and headers, or a turbo.

Other things to sort out first in terms of ride height, safety, hot start, fuel gauge operation, top storage, etc. but I like having some baseline speed testing at this point.

On test by the Autocar magazine in 1937 the 2.5-litre (20 RAC hp rating) car was found, with the windscreen lowered, to have a maximum speed of 95 mph (153 km/h) and a 0–60 mph (97 km/h) time of 13.5 seconds.
With the 3.5-litre (25 RAC hp rating) the top speed reached the magic 100 mph (160 km/h) with a best of 101 mph (163 km/h) over the quarter mile and the 0–60 mph (97 km/h) coming down to 10.4 seconds.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Replaced the plugs with the NGK BPR5Ey-11, which are correct for the 3TC engine. The plugs in there were Bosch WR7DC.

Bosch+plugs+4-3-2-1.JPG

4-3-2-1 from left to right, counting cylinders from back as 4 to front as 1.

Continues to suggest the carb needs sorting. The plugs were very easy to pull out, so perhaps were not torqued in as well as could be.

The charts seem to suggest that the plugs are too cold -- note the electrode is lighter brown, and the tip of the plug is black.

Looks like the front of the engine has a valve cover leak onto the plug body of 1 & 2.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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vacuum+advance+screwed.jpg

Clearly someone was re-designing this system along the way. One vacuum line coming off the distributor has not been capped -- an appropriate solution -- but rather the hose has been cut off at 2" and a small screw inserted to block off.
Yes, the retard for the distributor is screwed.

There are two lines on the vacuum advance unit. One, the vacuum advance, appears to correctly go to the carb, and the other, the emissions-related retard, is capped, er screwed.

Oh well, another thing to sort out.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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That's part of the California emissions tuning of the "C" in your 3T-C engine. Once it was popular to "take off the emissions stuff" because people presumed that it did nothing but cut gas mileage and power, but in point of fact once the first couple of years were past, EGR and the new spark maps just became all part of the engine tuning and there was nothing wrong with the performance or gas mileage. I experienced this with my 1997 Malibu with the 350 cid V8 and four-barell carburetor, and noted it with other cars of the same vintage of all makes. I resisted the offers of friends to help "disconnect the pollution gear" because I knew that this would only screw up the tune beyond redemption by a driveway mechanic.

If they did that, and the car has EGR, check on its connections and plumbing, too.


CTS-V_Dashboard.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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I drove the Roadster out to Wylie Vintage Garage ( Wylie Vintage Garage, 2819 W Fm 544, Wylie, TX 75098) for a consult and staged planning. Max speed of 55+ mph with some trepidation.

IMG_0904.JPG

Stage 1:

Issue: Brakes need new rotors, pads, shoes, master cylinder

Issue: Along the way someone has lowered the roadster by cutting the springs at the front, and putting spacers under the leaf springs in the back.

Issue: Rear has coil springs and leaf springs; lose the coil springs

Issue: front and rear shocks are toast

Issue: rear leaf spring on right is 'walking', and it has been heated and straightened -- the rear leaf springs have different shapes left and right.

This is likely the cause of the car feeling like it is 'winding up' and unwinding under acceleration.

Stage 2:

Reinforce chassis with new cross-members if still an issue.

New carb, fix valve cover gasket, tune engine

Stage 3:

Switch to manual transmission, hang clutch pedal.

Further engine tuning.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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Did you have any luck adjusting the choke?


CTS-V_Dashboard.jpg
-- Click Here for CaddyInfo page on "How To" Read Your OBD Codes
-- Click Here for my personal page to download my OBD code list as an Excel file, plus other Cadillac data
-- See my CaddyInfo car blogs: 2011 CTS-V, 1997 ETC
Yes, I was Jims_97_ETC before I changed cars.

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The mechanic said go ahead and replace carb based on observed condition. Cold starts are fine, so choke is working for that.

Yes, they had some great cars onhand. I thought I took more pics but only one resulted.


Bruce

2016 Cadillac ATS-V gray/black; 2013 Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Premium (Wife's)

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